Shams: Celtics Trade Jrue Holiday to Portland for Anfernee Simons, Two Second-Round Picks

[Bucks4005]

To the people also saying that Portland will regret this deal in 2-3 years, like, the first step they have to take is developing a winning culture and actually making the playoffs. If anything, Simmons has shown he can’t do that and Jrue has. Let’s say Jrue does fall off in the last year. If the blazers take that next step to contender and regular playoff team before that, how is that a bad cost? That’s what the trade is attempting to do. Jrue has been a winning player due to his defense. Simmons hasn’t. If the Blazers make the playoffs this year, this trade was worth it. If they don’t, yea, they took a risk. But these trades with no risk that fans expect don’t actually exist.

Again, I feel people refuse to separate the contract from the actual player. They live in a world where your team has young players, excellent below market value contracts, extra draft picks, etc. what Jrue is, right now, is a top tier defender for a guard, who can play a complimentary role to high usage offensive players, which is the clear goal for Sharpe, Deni, and Henderson on this team. Every team needs to have guys that can succeed without dominating offensive touches, this is exactly what this trade gives the Blazers.

[Blame Rasho]

All it takes is one gm to believe that a trade is good for them, and proceed to make a stupid trade outside of their bubble of yes men.

[BlazersBroncos]

Another thing of note - a playoff push for PDX makes extra sense when you look at their pick obligations.

PDX owes a LP FRP to CHI until 2028. This mucks up the gears on the FRP swap that PDX is owned from MIL. Its pretty confusing - but basically -

if the Portland pick (To CHI) is not conveyable, then Milwaukee's obligation to Portland will be extinguished and Washington will instead have the right to swap for the Milwaukee pic.

So the sooner PDX can convert that owed FRP to CHI the sooner we can not worry about MIL having the, say, #2 pick in the draft but PDX having, say, the 22 pick in the draft but NOT being able to do a swap w/ MIL due to the CHI obligation not being extinguished.

[DusterBuster]

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[Pattycakes]

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This guy gets it. Good trade for Portland. Jrue can bounce back with us and get back to 14-15 ppg and have a ton more positive impact than Simons could

[JujitsuFlip]

Could this be worked into a Jrue to the Cavs for Garland somehow? That would make the Cavs more formidable in the weak East and Portland would then have basically upgraded Simons into Garland.

Cavs are not trading their 25 year old All-Star PG for a 35 year old Jrue with 3 years left on his deal.

Why does everyone want to age the Cavs by 10+ years at every position? lol

Well it obviously wouldn't just be a one for one, that's why I said "could" and "somehow". The Cavs just got embarrassed in the playoffs and are rumored to be looking to move Garland because it just doesn't work with him and Mitchell in the postseason. Jrue would bring everything the Cavs were (and still are) lacking: POA defense, more perimeter size, experience, and toughness. I would guarantee that the Vegas odds for the Cavs would jump up the minute they replaced Garland with Holiday.

Dude, this isn't 2021 Jrue. The guy is a shell of himself.

Cavs got embarrassed for what reason though? I bet you watched zero minutes from the Cavs/Pacers series, you're just spewing the same clickbait garbage.

Let me give ya some hints. Go look what happened to Hunter and Mobley in game 1. Go look what happened to Mitchell in game 4. Go look-up what game Garland joined the series and then just watch any tape of him.

No team will have a chance if 4 of their 5 best players are not healthy lol

[JujitsuFlip]

Could this be worked into a Jrue to the Cavs for Garland somehow? That would make the Cavs more formidable in the weak East and Portland would then have basically upgraded Simons into Garland.

Cavs are not trading their 25 year old All-Star PG for a 35 year old Jrue with 3 years left on his deal.

Why does everyone want to age the Cavs by 10+ years at every position? lol

Maybe because Garland is such a disappointment in the playoffs?
His apologists would readily say it's because he is legitimately injured but the guy has a career playoff ave of 17 pts, 5 assists to 3 turnovers, under 43FG% AND 35% 3pt% when he plays.

He just had surgery how was he faking an injury lmaooooo

Anything for the narrative of Garland being garbage...

[JujitsuFlip]

Could this be worked into a Jrue to the Cavs for Garland somehow? That would make the Cavs more formidable in the weak East and Portland would then have basically upgraded Simons into Garland.

Cavs are not trading their 25 year old All-Star PG for a 35 year old Jrue with 3 years left on his deal.

Why does everyone want to age the Cavs by 10+ years at every position? lol

It's not about aging them, it's about giving them a backbone. Which we saw they didn't haven't when push came to shove.

They were missing 4 of their 5 best players for mutliple points in the Pacers series... If ya didn't watch the series, just say that.

[ShootersShoot]

Maybe because Garland is such a disappointment in the playoffs?
His apologists would readily say it's because he is legitimately injured but the guy has a career playoff ave of 17 pts, 5 assists to 3 turnovers, under 43FG% AND 35% 3pt% when he plays.

You can say Garland has been disappointing but that’s still no reason to trade him for a declining 35 year old who is owed $100m+.

If we’re going off playoff results Jrue just averaged 10/4/4 while not being elite defensively. You want to trade your all-star PG for that guy?

I never said I am a huge fan of Jrue but sorry man, 17pts, 5apg to 3 turnovers is not an Allstar PG in my book.

Garland is young and doesnt have a ton of playoff experience. Using such a small sample size to rate a player is disingenious, especially when he literally was an all star this season.

[FlatearthZorro]

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This guy gets it. Good trade for Portland. Jrue can bounce back with us and get back to 14-15 ppg and have a ton more positive impact than Simons could

He definitely can. He was worn out and injured this year(played for team USA, had injury to his shooting hand the last 3-4 months of the season which definitely affected his 3 point shooting %).
As for Simmons, it could be good for him, too. He's still fairly young and playing on a team with dudes that have winning experience could be a positive for him(if he stays on the C's).

[JujitsuFlip]

Celtics get a cheaper deal that is expiring.

Probably still need to move Hauser or KP to have enough room under the 2nd apron to fill out the roster.

Hauser by himself still wouldn't be enough. Even if they traded him into somebody's cap space/exception, they would still be over the second apron with roster spots to fill. KP will likely have to happen and will need to involve a team with cap space in some way to be able to save enough money on the deal. Being able to successfully dump Hauser in addition to that though would certainly help the process.

Ah, right you are. It'll pretty much have to be KP who gets traded next then.

[tamaraw08]

Cavs are not trading their 25 year old All-Star PG for a 35 year old Jrue with 3 years left on his deal.

Why does everyone want to age the Cavs by 10+ years at every position? lol

Maybe because Garland is such a disappointment in the playoffs?
His apologists would readily say it's because he is legitimately injured but the guy has a career playoff ave of 17 pts, 5 assists to 3 turnovers, under 43FG% AND 35% 3pt% when he plays.

He just had surgery how was he faking an injury lmaooooo

Anything for the narrative of Garland being garbage...

I never implied that he is garbage. I simply posted his career playoff ave and if you called that garbage then. it's on you.

[tamaraw08]

You can say Garland has been disappointing but that’s still no reason to trade him for a declining 35 year old who is owed $100m+.

If we’re going off playoff results Jrue just averaged 10/4/4 while not being elite defensively. You want to trade your all-star PG for that guy?

I never said I am a huge fan of Jrue but sorry man, 17pts, 5apg to 3 turnovers is not an Allstar PG in my book.

Garland is young and doesnt have a ton of playoff experience. Using such a small sample size to rate a player is disingenious, especially when he literally was an all star this season.

You know who else went to the allStar games? D Angelo Russell.
And if you call 3 playoff runs with 769 minutes total played as small sample size, then let's agree to disagree.

[DonaldSanders]

I think it's a good trade for both teams.

BOS - saves money
POR - at some point you need to try to create a winning culture, and they got the best player in the trade.

Portland actually had a really nice run to finish the last 1/3rd of the season, so to me it's fine. I don't think being a basement dweller endlessly is the way to go, they just need to keep their picks (or find a way to add more) and hope to luck into a star like a lot of teams have. Tanking hasn't guaranteed stars.

I don't think POR should have had to send picks though, but it's only a 2 2nd rounders.

[knicksstuff]

This is the same story we saw with Houston when they sign Dillon and FVV to builda culture and have vet guys that know the game aroudn their young guys its simple as that.

Yep. And HOU was eviscerated for the FVV and Dillon signings on this board, I was one of the naysayers.

Turns out it worked quite well for them. Overpaid bridge vets on a young team work very often.

Anytime you can put really good Vets around your young guys it works out especially a leader like Jrue. I think this trade does more for Portland than people want to let on.

[JujitsuFlip]

Maybe because Garland is such a disappointment in the playoffs?
His apologists would readily say it's because he is legitimately injured but the guy has a career playoff ave of 17 pts, 5 assists to 3 turnovers, under 43FG% AND 35% 3pt% when he plays.

He just had surgery how was he faking an injury lmaooooo

Anything for the narrative of Garland being garbage...

I never implied that he is garbage. I simply posted his career playoff ave and if you called that garbage then. it's on you.

The tone of your posts speaks for itself...

[Djh7475]

As a Celtics fan happy with the return for Jrue, I think people are slightly exaggerating Jrue’s perceived fall off this season. He had no offseason and was banged up throughout the year, and the Celtics nursed his minutes and his usage was incredibly low (he was almost always the 5th option when he was on the floor).

His defense was still as good as ever, and he just wasn’t used offensively as anything more than a spot up shooter. Considering he’s widely considered one of the best locker room guys and vets in the league, I don’t think it’s nearly as bad as some seem to.

I think the 2nds were included because the Celtics will need them to shuffle money around in a follow-up deal whereas several of the other rumored possibilities had them saving much more.

[HMFFL]

GM Joe Cronin desperately needs a winning season. 106-199 (34%) record as the Blazers GM.

I think Portland will keep Jrue to start the season.

Jrue Holiday
Shaedon Sharpe
Jerami Grant
Deni Avdija
Deandre Ayton

Portland is also finally officially for sale and a new owner wants upward pointing metrics, not a blatant tank job for the next 5 years.
When a new owner takes over a team they all want to win immediately: Prokhorov, Ballmer, Ishbia, etc..

That is correct.
Eventually we know Ayton won't be part of the teams future and Grant is the worse contract on the team. I still like that starting five to start the season. In Sharpe I trust for Portland to have a future.

[jirrit]

To the people also saying that Portland will regret this deal in 2-3 years, like, the first step they have to take is developing a winning culture and actually making the playoffs. If anything, Simmons has shown he can’t do that and Jrue has. Let’s say Jrue does fall off in the last year. If the blazers take that next step to contender and regular playoff team before that, how is that a bad cost? That’s what the trade is attempting to do. Jrue has been a winning player due to his defense. Simmons hasn’t. If the Blazers make the playoffs this year, this trade was worth it. If they don’t, yea, they took a risk. But these trades with no risk that fans expect don’t actually exist.

Again, I feel people refuse to separate the contract from the actual player. They live in a world where your team has young players, excellent below market value contracts, extra draft picks, etc. what Jrue is, right now, is a top tier defender for a guard, who can play a complimentary role to high usage offensive players, which is the clear goal for Sharpe, Deni, and Henderson on this team. Every team needs to have guys that can succeed without dominating offensive touches, this is exactly what this trade gives the Blazers.

As much as I love Jrue, I dont think he’s ever worth that contract on the current Portland team.

[DusterBuster]

As a Celtics fan happy with the return for Jrue, I think people are slightly exaggerating Jrue’s perceived fall off this season. He had no offseason and was banged up throughout the year, and the Celtics nursed his minutes and his usage was incredibly low (he was almost always the 5th option when he was on the floor).

His defense was still as good as ever, and he just wasn’t used offensively as anything more than a spot up shooter. Considering he’s widely considered one of the best locker room guys and vets in the league, I don’t think it’s nearly as bad as some seem to.

I think the 2nds were included because the Celtics will need them to shuffle money around in a follow-up deal whereas several of the other rumored possibilities had them saving much more.

This is where I've landed on the deal myself. The Blazers FO staff have been fans of Jrue for years and years now dating back to his time with the Pelican. Olshey came close to trading for Jrue (Cronin was assistant GM at the time) before he went to Milwaukee.

I suspect after the Dame trade, they wanted to keep Jrue in that deal, but also wanted to respect Jrue's timeline given where he was with his career and they still had some interest in seeing what Simons could do taking over the lead guard role from Lillard - who was his mentor. It was reported that Jrue was really appreciative of how Portland handled that situation and sent him somewhere where he could contend. Given he got a ring out of it, I suspect he's probably plenty happy to come back and play the mentor role as he closes out his career as somewhat of a thank you to the Blazers organization for getting him one more ring (and 100mil more dollars). I can imagine Billups is likewise happy to have him and may have some thoughts of trying to recruit him for an assistant coaching gig post-playing career.

He'll certainly be overpaid, but also, whatever. Blazers never get FA's because Portland, OR is no players 1st or 2nd (or sometimes 3rd or 4th) option as a coveted FA. Cronin has also shown zero interest in taking back bad contacts to inflate a draft capital warchest, so that's never been on the table as a serious use for cap space either for Portland.

Also, the Blazers throw 2nd round picks away like water. They got like 5 or 6 future second round picks a few seasons ago just from a single trade (GP3 back to Golden State), so I genuinely don't think the Blazers ever operate that they care about 2nd round picks. If they need more, they always feel they can get more.

Overall, I'm ok with this deal because it feels like they finally might be giving Scoot a signal they have a path and runaway for him now. No more wondering if it's gonna be Simons or Scoot in the long-run. Scoot seems to be the heir apparent with hopes he can take the starting gig when he's like 22 or 23yo after a season or two of learning under the player they want him to be most like. Also, between Jrue and Billups, the Blazers can't really surround Scoot with much more support to learn how to be a successful NBA PG. If he's still a mess of question decision making by the end of next season, that's on him.