How are people not putting Jokic in their top 15 yet?

[dhsilv2]

Impossible!? Come on, man — you’re being evasive. Engage in good faith. I’ve been asking you the same exact thing for multiple posts now: how you arrived at your +1.1 per steal or +1.5 from rebounding figures. Show your framework so it can stand up to scrutiny and “quantify” the impact of his steals rebounds and “reduced fouls”.

Let me give u an example using Jokic’s poor pnr defense while defending the screener.

According to Second Spectrum tracking data from NBA.com, the Nuggets allowed 1.02 points per chance when Jokić defended the screener in pick-and-roll actions last season. He defended 45.8 ball screens per 100 possessions, one of the highest rates in the league. That means:

1.02 points × 45.8 chances = 46.7 points allowed per 100 possessions.

Now, Denver as a team allowed 116.9 points per game last season (roughly 100 possessions per game). So Jokić’s PnR defense — just this one area of defense alone — accounts for about:

(46.7 ÷ 116.9) × 100 = 40 percent of all points the Nuggets allow.

That’s massive. And it directly contradicts this idea that Denver’s slightly better on/off defensive numbers with him on the floor somehow prove his impact. When nearly 40 percent of your total points allowed come from one defensive action tied directly to your center, the “they’re 5 points better per 100 with him on the court” line doesn’t carry the weight you think it does.

I’m not saying on/off data is useless — I’m saying it’s incomplete without understanding how those numbers form. Jokic’s weaknesses in core defensive actions like pick-and-roll coverage far outweigh the narrative that he “offsets” them by not fouling or grabbing defensive boards. Those boards often come after poor initial defense, and his “low foul rate” comes from avoiding contesting shots in the first place.

So sure, in a vacuum, low fouls and strong defensive rebounding can offset poor eFG%, but Jokic has far more defensive liabilities than just eFG% — rim protection, pick-and-roll defense, contested shots, gambling for steals that lead to baskets, and leaving shooters uncontested. Those aren’t minor omissions; they’re major negative contributions that dwarf whatever small credit you try to assign.

I don't know how others respond. But what I do is I hit reply and go back and read over what you said again and try to answer it. It's really hard with the small text box to separate my comments from yours. I've done it with people I like and dislike equally. I just refuse to go into those types of replies. Truly nothing personal or me wanting to avoid stuff. I just find it really difficult and frustrating.

So just to be clear. You agree with the statement that poor eFG% defense can be offset by reduced free throw rates and strong defensive rebounding? There's nothing else to discuss until I fully understand if you agree or not on this.

Is me saying sure not a clear affirmation?

I mean if someone asks for a clear "yes or no", it seems reasonable to expect one or the other.

[DimesandKnicks]

I don't know how others respond. But what I do is I hit reply and go back and read over what you said again and try to answer it. It's really hard with the small text box to separate my comments from yours. I've done it with people I like and dislike equally. I just refuse to go into those types of replies. Truly nothing personal or me wanting to avoid stuff. I just find it really difficult and frustrating.

So just to be clear. You agree with the statement that poor eFG% defense can be offset by reduced free throw rates and strong defensive rebounding? There's nothing else to discuss until I fully understand if you agree or not on this.

Is me saying sure not a clear affirmation?

I mean if someone asks for a clear "yes or no", it seems reasonable to expect one or the other.

In my part of the country sure is affirming language

[dhsilv2]

Is me saying sure not a clear affirmation?

I mean if someone asks for a clear "yes or no", it seems reasonable to expect one or the other.

In my part of the country sure is affirming language

Like I said, when someone expressly asks for yes or no. It's just nice to get it.

As for the rest, I'll respond once I have time to look at the data more. Just to confirm are you just giving me playoff stats, from a single playoff run here?

Also, you keep mentioning Jokic gambling. Why? He generally creates steals off good positional defense or he's already beat and goes for the ball after. You're the first person I've seen bring up gambling for steals with him. I'm rather at a loss as I can't recall seeing it at a rate that would warrant discussion.

[LeoClark]

Maybe — sure. But the problem is, you haven’t shown that these three factors are “mostly attributable” to him. That’s the step you keep skipping.

I can't respond to all of those since you cut everything up in an impossible to respond to way.

It's a simple yes or no question you've been asked here. Can you offset poor defensive eFG% with low foul rates and preventing offensive rebounding. The data I just posted for you shows the Nuggets are doing just that. On average 5 points per 100 better defense over the past 4 seasons while teams shoot significantly better against the Nuggets with Jokic on the court.

So the question remains, can you grasp how that can be possible? The question isn't even about Jokic. It's if you can understand that it's possible.

Impossible!? Come on, man — you’re being evasive. Engage in good faith. I’ve been asking you the same exact thing for multiple posts now: how you arrived at your +1.1 per steal or +1.5 from rebounding figures. Show your framework so it can stand up to scrutiny and “quantify” the impact of his steals rebounds and “reduced fouls”.

Let me give u an example using Jokic’s poor pnr defense while defending the screener.

According to Second Spectrum tracking data from NBA.com, the Nuggets allowed 1.02 points per chance when Jokić defended the screener in pick-and-roll actions last season. He defended 45.8 ball screens per 100 possessions, one of the highest rates in the league. That means:

1.02 points × 45.8 chances = 46.7 points allowed per 100 possessions.

Now, Denver as a team allowed 116.9 points per game last season (roughly 100 possessions per game). So Jokić’s PnR defense — just this one area of defense alone — accounts for about:

(46.7 ÷ 116.9) × 100 = 40 percent of all points the Nuggets allow.

That’s massive. And it directly contradicts this idea that Denver’s slightly better on/off defensive numbers with him on the floor somehow prove his impact. When nearly 40 percent of your total points allowed come from one defensive action tied directly to your center, the “they’re 5 points better per 100 with him on the court” line doesn’t carry the weight you think it does.

I’m not saying on/off data is useless — I’m saying it’s incomplete without understanding how those numbers form. Jokic’s weaknesses in core defensive actions like pick-and-roll coverage far outweigh the narrative that he “offsets” them by not fouling or grabbing defensive boards. Those boards often come after poor initial defense, and his “low foul rate” comes from avoiding contesting shots in the first place.

So sure, in a vacuum, low fouls and strong defensive rebounding can offset poor eFG%, but Jokic has far more defensive liabilities than just eFG% — rim protection, pick-and-roll defense, contested shots, gambling for steals that lead to baskets, and leaving shooters uncontested. Those aren’t minor omissions; they’re major negative contributions that dwarf whatever small credit you try to assign.

Where are you getting this stats from ?? Accoring to your source no NBA teams ran more than 28.5 pick and roll for ball handler and 8.8 for the roll man, no way Jokic defended that many possessions.

For anyone reading further jokic is the 82.4th percentiles for pick and roll ball handler efficiency and 14th percentile for roll man(low volume).

[dhsilv2]

I can't respond to all of those since you cut everything up in an impossible to respond to way.

It's a simple yes or no question you've been asked here. Can you offset poor defensive eFG% with low foul rates and preventing offensive rebounding. The data I just posted for you shows the Nuggets are doing just that. On average 5 points per 100 better defense over the past 4 seasons while teams shoot significantly better against the Nuggets with Jokic on the court.

So the question remains, can you grasp how that can be possible? The question isn't even about Jokic. It's if you can understand that it's possible.

Impossible!? Come on, man — you’re being evasive. Engage in good faith. I’ve been asking you the same exact thing for multiple posts now: how you arrived at your +1.1 per steal or +1.5 from rebounding figures. Show your framework so it can stand up to scrutiny and “quantify” the impact of his steals rebounds and “reduced fouls”.

Let me give u an example using Jokic’s poor pnr defense while defending the screener.

According to Second Spectrum tracking data from NBA.com, the Nuggets allowed 1.02 points per chance when Jokić defended the screener in pick-and-roll actions last season. He defended 45.8 ball screens per 100 possessions, one of the highest rates in the league. That means:

1.02 points × 45.8 chances = 46.7 points allowed per 100 possessions.

Now, Denver as a team allowed 116.9 points per game last season (roughly 100 possessions per game). So Jokić’s PnR defense — just this one area of defense alone — accounts for about:

(46.7 ÷ 116.9) × 100 = 40 percent of all points the Nuggets allow.

That’s massive. And it directly contradicts this idea that Denver’s slightly better on/off defensive numbers with him on the floor somehow prove his impact. When nearly 40 percent of your total points allowed come from one defensive action tied directly to your center, the “they’re 5 points better per 100 with him on the court” line doesn’t carry the weight you think it does.

I’m not saying on/off data is useless — I’m saying it’s incomplete without understanding how those numbers form. Jokic’s weaknesses in core defensive actions like pick-and-roll coverage far outweigh the narrative that he “offsets” them by not fouling or grabbing defensive boards. Those boards often come after poor initial defense, and his “low foul rate” comes from avoiding contesting shots in the first place.

So sure, in a vacuum, low fouls and strong defensive rebounding can offset poor eFG%, but Jokic has far more defensive liabilities than just eFG% — rim protection, pick-and-roll defense, contested shots, gambling for steals that lead to baskets, and leaving shooters uncontested. Those aren’t minor omissions; they’re major negative contributions that dwarf whatever small credit you try to assign.

Where are you getting this stats from ?? Accoring to your source no NBA teams ran more than 28.5 pick and roll for ball handler and 8.8 for the roll man, no way Jokic defended that many possessions.

For anyone reading further jokic is the 82.4th percentiles for pick and roll ball handler efficiency and 14th percentile for roll man(low volume).

I'm thinking he's pulling playoff data so the 2 series...clippers and OKC. That could be the cause of such a wild set of data. But yes, I asked the same because it's really hard to do apples to apples if we're trying to compare a player to others with such skewed asymmetrical data sets. But then we'd also want to look at who else was with Jokic in those as MPJ and Murray are just horrid defenders. Burnson by contrast is pretty decent.

[Speedlot]

So many people hate his defense so much. Not an elite 2 way player.

Yet nobody has AD > Jokic.

[DimesandKnicks]

I mean if someone asks for a clear "yes or no", it seems reasonable to expect one or the other.

In my part of the country sure is affirming language

Like I said, when someone expressly asks for yes or no. It's just nice to get it.

As for the rest, I'll respond once I have time to look at the data more. Just to confirm are you just giving me playoff stats, from a single playoff run here?

Also, you keep mentioning Jokic gambling. Why? He generally creates steals off good positional defense or he's already beat and goes for the ball after. You're the first person I've seen bring up gambling for steals with him. I'm rather at a loss as I can't recall seeing it at a rate that would warrant discussion.

Playoffs. Gambling may be the wrong verb, but have you never seen Jokic attempt a steal at a driving offender only to miss and give up a layup?

[dhsilv2]

In my part of the country sure is affirming language

Like I said, when someone expressly asks for yes or no. It's just nice to get it.

As for the rest, I'll respond once I have time to look at the data more. Just to confirm are you just giving me playoff stats, from a single playoff run here?

Also, you keep mentioning Jokic gambling. Why? He generally creates steals off good positional defense or he's already beat and goes for the ball after. You're the first person I've seen bring up gambling for steals with him. I'm rather at a loss as I can't recall seeing it at a rate that would warrant discussion.

Playoffs. Gambling may be the wrong verb, but have you never seen Jokic attempt a steal at a driving offender only to miss and give up a layup?

Well of course, but almost always he was already beat. The steal/deflection attempt was his only defensive play. Jokic isn't blocking shots trailing a play and he isn't staying in front of a guard with a head of steam. The best defensive center of this generation Gobert, who moves more like a small forward than a center can't do that...

Now I'd be open if you had a play or something in mind to highlight a legit miss like he went for the steal vs holding his ground or maybe something I'm not thinking about.

In my head you're describing a plus, Jokic makes plays from behind when he's beat...but I'm open to some film to better understand.

[dhsilv2]

So many people hate his defense so much. Not an elite 2 way player.

Yet nobody has AD > Jokic.

Not sure why AD is your pick here. He's played 321 games 2020-2025. Jokic 437....

[DimesandKnicks]

Like I said, when someone expressly asks for yes or no. It's just nice to get it.

As for the rest, I'll respond once I have time to look at the data more. Just to confirm are you just giving me playoff stats, from a single playoff run here?

Also, you keep mentioning Jokic gambling. Why? He generally creates steals off good positional defense or he's already beat and goes for the ball after. You're the first person I've seen bring up gambling for steals with him. I'm rather at a loss as I can't recall seeing it at a rate that would warrant discussion.

Playoffs. Gambling may be the wrong verb, but have you never seen Jokic attempt a steal at a driving offender only to miss and give up a layup?

Well of course, but almost always he was already beat. The steal/deflection attempt was his only defensive play. Jokic isn't blocking shots trailing a play and he isn't staying in front of a guard with a head of steam. The best defensive center of this generation Gobert, who moves more like a small forward than a center can't do that...

Now I'd be open if you had a play or something in mind to highlight a legit miss like he went for the steal vs holding his ground or maybe something I'm not thinking about.

In my head you're describing a plus, Jokic makes plays from behind when he's beat...but I'm open to some film to better understand.

Regardless, you have to account for his failed attempts at steals that lead to points

[dhsilv2]

Playoffs. Gambling may be the wrong verb, but have you never seen Jokic attempt a steal at a driving offender only to miss and give up a layup?

Well of course, but almost always he was already beat. The steal/deflection attempt was his only defensive play. Jokic isn't blocking shots trailing a play and he isn't staying in front of a guard with a head of steam. The best defensive center of this generation Gobert, who moves more like a small forward than a center can't do that...

Now I'd be open if you had a play or something in mind to highlight a legit miss like he went for the steal vs holding his ground or maybe something I'm not thinking about.

In my head you're describing a plus, Jokic makes plays from behind when he's beat...but I'm open to some film to better understand.

Regardless, you have to account for his failed attempts at steals that lead to points

I agree in concept, I just don't think it's material here.

But let me go back to that least set of data and PLEASE tell me that's not a 2 series playoff set...as that's just near useless. Unless your argument was jokic is a fine defender, other than against 2 team in a playoff run. And at that point I don't care.

[DimesandKnicks]

Well of course, but almost always he was already beat. The steal/deflection attempt was his only defensive play. Jokic isn't blocking shots trailing a play and he isn't staying in front of a guard with a head of steam. The best defensive center of this generation Gobert, who moves more like a small forward than a center can't do that...

Now I'd be open if you had a play or something in mind to highlight a legit miss like he went for the steal vs holding his ground or maybe something I'm not thinking about.

In my head you're describing a plus, Jokic makes plays from behind when he's beat...but I'm open to some film to better understand.

Regardless, you have to account for his failed attempts at steals that lead to points

I agree in concept, I just don't think it's material here.

But let me go back to that least set of data and PLEASE tell me that's not a 2 series playoff set...as that's just near useless. Unless your argument was jokic is a fine defender, other than against 2 team in a playoff run. And at that point I don't care.

Pardon me; it’s the entire regular season (24-25)

[DimesandKnicks]

I can't respond to all of those since you cut everything up in an impossible to respond to way.

It's a simple yes or no question you've been asked here. Can you offset poor defensive eFG% with low foul rates and preventing offensive rebounding. The data I just posted for you shows the Nuggets are doing just that. On average 5 points per 100 better defense over the past 4 seasons while teams shoot significantly better against the Nuggets with Jokic on the court.

So the question remains, can you grasp how that can be possible? The question isn't even about Jokic. It's if you can understand that it's possible.

Impossible!? Come on, man — you’re being evasive. Engage in good faith. I’ve been asking you the same exact thing for multiple posts now: how you arrived at your +1.1 per steal or +1.5 from rebounding figures. Show your framework so it can stand up to scrutiny and “quantify” the impact of his steals rebounds and “reduced fouls”.

Let me give u an example using Jokic’s poor pnr defense while defending the screener.

According to Second Spectrum tracking data from NBA.com, the Nuggets allowed 1.02 points per chance when Jokić defended the screener in pick-and-roll actions last season. He defended 45.8 ball screens per 100 possessions, one of the highest rates in the league. That means:

1.02 points × 45.8 chances = 46.7 points allowed per 100 possessions.

Now, Denver as a team allowed 116.9 points per game last season (roughly 100 possessions per game). So Jokić’s PnR defense — just this one area of defense alone — accounts for about:

(46.7 ÷ 116.9) × 100 = 40 percent of all points the Nuggets allow.

That’s massive. And it directly contradicts this idea that Denver’s slightly better on/off defensive numbers with him on the floor somehow prove his impact. When nearly 40 percent of your total points allowed come from one defensive action tied directly to your center, the “they’re 5 points better per 100 with him on the court” line doesn’t carry the weight you think it does.

I’m not saying on/off data is useless — I’m saying it’s incomplete without understanding how those numbers form. Jokic’s weaknesses in core defensive actions like pick-and-roll coverage far outweigh the narrative that he “offsets” them by not fouling or grabbing defensive boards. Those boards often come after poor initial defense, and his “low foul rate” comes from avoiding contesting shots in the first place.

So sure, in a vacuum, low fouls and strong defensive rebounding can offset poor eFG%, but Jokic has far more defensive liabilities than just eFG% — rim protection, pick-and-roll defense, contested shots, gambling for steals that lead to baskets, and leaving shooters uncontested. Those aren’t minor omissions; they’re major negative contributions that dwarf whatever small credit you try to assign.

Where are you getting this stats from ?? Accoring to your source no NBA teams ran more than 28.5 pick and roll for ball handler and 8.8 for the roll man, no way Jokic defended that many possessions.

For anyone reading further jokic is the 82.4th percentiles for pick and roll ball handler efficiency and 14th percentile for roll man(low volume).

https://www.nba.com/news/film-study-can-new-additions-help-nuggets-defense

Second Sprectrum, they register a ball screen whenever one is set vs Synergy (NBA.com’s advanced stats) only registers a ball screen if it ends in a FGA, TOV or FT

[hardenASG13]

Regardless, you have to account for his failed attempts at steals that lead to points

I agree in concept, I just don't think it's material here.

But let me go back to that least set of data and PLEASE tell me that's not a 2 series playoff set...as that's just near useless. Unless your argument was jokic is a fine defender, other than against 2 team in a playoff run. And at that point I don't care.

Pardon me; it’s the entire regular season (24-25)

https://youtu.be/Q5roqoxL2qw?si=9fabIy68WBfdNGUn


Here's a link to some video (sorry I don't know how to post beyond linking it, and the narrator is annoying)

This is from the Minnesota series, where they got blown out in game 6 with a chance to close out on the road and blew game 7. Jokic sells out for steals alot then gives up on thr play. Yeah he gets an occasional steal and some deflections, which many of his fans here claim makes him a good defender. It comes at a cost though. This is a small sample, but if youre being honest with yourself, he does stuff like this all the time. These are big playoff games, too. Hes worse in the regular season. Gambles for steals and deflections on "traps", hedges, and in transition all the time. If he doesn't get them, he gives up on the play.

[dhsilv2]

I agree in concept, I just don't think it's material here.

But let me go back to that least set of data and PLEASE tell me that's not a 2 series playoff set...as that's just near useless. Unless your argument was jokic is a fine defender, other than against 2 team in a playoff run. And at that point I don't care.

Pardon me; it’s the entire regular season (24-25)

https://youtu.be/Q5roqoxL2qw?si=9fabIy68WBfdNGUn


Here's a link to some video (sorry I don't know how to post beyond linking it, and the narrator is annoying)

This is from the Minnesota series, where they got blown out in game 6 with a chance to close out on the road and blew game 7. Jokic sells out for steals alot then gives up on thr play. Yeah he gets an occasional steal and some deflections, which many of his fans here claim makes him a good defender. It comes at a cost though. This is a small sample, but if youre being honest with yourself, he does stuff like this all the time. These are big playoff games, too. Hes worse in the regular season. Gambles for steals and deflections on "traps", hedges, and in transition all the time. If he doesn't get them, he gives up on the play.

Are there any moments worth noting here? Cause I'm like 2 minutes in and I'm not really seeing much. And obviously I had to mute the dude locked in his mom's basement.

[dhsilv2]

Impossible!? Come on, man — you’re being evasive. Engage in good faith. I’ve been asking you the same exact thing for multiple posts now: how you arrived at your +1.1 per steal or +1.5 from rebounding figures. Show your framework so it can stand up to scrutiny and “quantify” the impact of his steals rebounds and “reduced fouls”.

Let me give u an example using Jokic’s poor pnr defense while defending the screener.

According to Second Spectrum tracking data from NBA.com, the Nuggets allowed 1.02 points per chance when Jokić defended the screener in pick-and-roll actions last season. He defended 45.8 ball screens per 100 possessions, one of the highest rates in the league. That means:

1.02 points × 45.8 chances = 46.7 points allowed per 100 possessions.

Now, Denver as a team allowed 116.9 points per game last season (roughly 100 possessions per game). So Jokić’s PnR defense — just this one area of defense alone — accounts for about:

(46.7 ÷ 116.9) × 100 = 40 percent of all points the Nuggets allow.

That’s massive. And it directly contradicts this idea that Denver’s slightly better on/off defensive numbers with him on the floor somehow prove his impact. When nearly 40 percent of your total points allowed come from one defensive action tied directly to your center, the “they’re 5 points better per 100 with him on the court” line doesn’t carry the weight you think it does.

I’m not saying on/off data is useless — I’m saying it’s incomplete without understanding how those numbers form. Jokic’s weaknesses in core defensive actions like pick-and-roll coverage far outweigh the narrative that he “offsets” them by not fouling or grabbing defensive boards. Those boards often come after poor initial defense, and his “low foul rate” comes from avoiding contesting shots in the first place.

So sure, in a vacuum, low fouls and strong defensive rebounding can offset poor eFG%, but Jokic has far more defensive liabilities than just eFG% — rim protection, pick-and-roll defense, contested shots, gambling for steals that lead to baskets, and leaving shooters uncontested. Those aren’t minor omissions; they’re major negative contributions that dwarf whatever small credit you try to assign.

Where are you getting this stats from ?? Accoring to your source no NBA teams ran more than 28.5 pick and roll for ball handler and 8.8 for the roll man, no way Jokic defended that many possessions.

For anyone reading further jokic is the 82.4th percentiles for pick and roll ball handler efficiency and 14th percentile for roll man(low volume).

https://www.nba.com/news/film-study-can-new-additions-help-nuggets-defense

Second Sprectrum, they register a ball screen whenever one is set vs Synergy (NBA.com’s advanced stats) only registers a ball screen if it ends in a FGA, TOV or FT

Wait...if this is where you're pulling all this. Just to be clear. Your argument isn't that Jokic over his career isn't an average to plus defender. But he was bad just in 2025?

[hardenASG13]

Pardon me; it’s the entire regular season (24-25)

https://youtu.be/Q5roqoxL2qw?si=9fabIy68WBfdNGUn


Here's a link to some video (sorry I don't know how to post beyond linking it, and the narrator is annoying)

This is from the Minnesota series, where they got blown out in game 6 with a chance to close out on the road and blew game 7. Jokic sells out for steals alot then gives up on thr play. Yeah he gets an occasional steal and some deflections, which many of his fans here claim makes him a good defender. It comes at a cost though. This is a small sample, but if youre being honest with yourself, he does stuff like this all the time. These are big playoff games, too. Hes worse in the regular season. Gambles for steals and deflections on "traps", hedges, and in transition all the time. If he doesn't get them, he gives up on the play.

Are there any moments worth noting here? Cause I'm like 2 minutes in and I'm not really seeing much. And obviously I had to mute the dude locked in his mom's basement.

Yes there are several. If you've gone back and forth dozens of times in this thread, surely you have 8 minutes to watch the video, detailing his poor rotations, gambling for steals, and ball watching. You asked for video of specifics, here it is. Don't dismiss it, this is what you asked for. Watch it. These are big playoff games, in a series where he lost to a younger team and had home court advantage in the series.

And yes, the narrator is annoying.

[dhsilv2]

https://youtu.be/Q5roqoxL2qw?si=9fabIy68WBfdNGUn


Here's a link to some video (sorry I don't know how to post beyond linking it, and the narrator is annoying)

This is from the Minnesota series, where they got blown out in game 6 with a chance to close out on the road and blew game 7. Jokic sells out for steals alot then gives up on thr play. Yeah he gets an occasional steal and some deflections, which many of his fans here claim makes him a good defender. It comes at a cost though. This is a small sample, but if youre being honest with yourself, he does stuff like this all the time. These are big playoff games, too. Hes worse in the regular season. Gambles for steals and deflections on "traps", hedges, and in transition all the time. If he doesn't get them, he gives up on the play.

Are there any moments worth noting here? Cause I'm like 2 minutes in and I'm not really seeing much. And obviously I had to mute the dude locked in his mom's basement.

Yes there are several. If you've gone back and forth dozens of times in this thread, surely you have 8 minutes to watch the video, detailing his poor rotations, gambling for steals, and ball watching. You asked for video of specifics, here it is. Don't dismiss it, this is what you asked for. Watch it. These are big playoff games, in a series where he lost to a younger team and had home court advantage in the series.

And yes, the narrator is annoying.

Dude it's some guy screaming to his mom to bring him cheetos and more lotion for his happy times while the video is paused and what look like random plays...

I've now watched the whole thing...I saw a few swipes behind a play on Edwards.

Overall this looks like a video against using Jokic in drop. Not the discussion of him gambling for steals. And happy to agree Jokic's not very mobile in those drop sets and Malone has to game plan around that better.

I did notice one guy in the comments said the whole channel is intended as a meme, so again I can't listen to this guy scream at his mom for more "Me time". But that seems more logical.

[hardenASG13]

Are there any moments worth noting here? Cause I'm like 2 minutes in and I'm not really seeing much. And obviously I had to mute the dude locked in his mom's basement.

Yes there are several. If you've gone back and forth dozens of times in this thread, surely you have 8 minutes to watch the video, detailing his poor rotations, gambling for steals, and ball watching. You asked for video of specifics, here it is. Don't dismiss it, this is what you asked for. Watch it. These are big playoff games, in a series where he lost to a younger team and had home court advantage in the series.

And yes, the narrator is annoying.

Dude it's some guy screaming to his mom to bring him cheetos and more lotion for his happy times while the video is paused and what look like random plays...

I've now watched the whole thing...I saw a few swipes behind a play on Edwards.

Overall this looks like a video against using Jokic in drop. Not the discussion of him gambling for steals. And happy to agree Jokic's not very mobile in those drop sets and Malone has to game plan around that better.

I did notice one guy in the comments said the whole channel is intended as a meme, so again I can't listen to this guy scream at his mom for more "Me time". But that seems more logical.

The guys screaming is annoying, yes. But thats besides the point. He points to specific examples of Jokic selling out/gambling for steals, not rotating, ball watching etc. These were huge games in which his team lost a 3-2 series lead as defending champions to an inexperienced Minnesota team, in embarrassing fashion. These are video examples which you asked for. The narrator, while annoying, makes sense and details each shortcoming, and how it effects his team. We both know the highlighted occurrences in this video are common for Jokic, and often worse in the regular season rather than in these huge playoff games he is detailing.

All time greats don't lose closeout game 6s by 45 points or blow 20 point game 7 second half leads at home to teams like 24' Minnesota. They just don't. His defense highlighted in this video was a big part of it.

[DimesandKnicks]

Where are you getting this stats from ?? Accoring to your source no NBA teams ran more than 28.5 pick and roll for ball handler and 8.8 for the roll man, no way Jokic defended that many possessions.

For anyone reading further jokic is the 82.4th percentiles for pick and roll ball handler efficiency and 14th percentile for roll man(low volume).

https://www.nba.com/news/film-study-can-new-additions-help-nuggets-defense

Second Sprectrum, they register a ball screen whenever one is set vs Synergy (NBA.com’s advanced stats) only registers a ball screen if it ends in a FGA, TOV or FT

Wait...if this is where you're pulling all this. Just to be clear. Your argument isn't that Jokic over his career isn't an average to plus defender. But he was bad just in 2025?

No, that he’s a bad defender period.