Are people lower on Cooper Flagg?

[Johnny Firpo]

Coops situation reminds me of Cade's. Drafted to a team with many problems that wasn't built around him yet, while the other players drafted around him have better starts to their career.

After a while this Kyrie/AD stuff will end, and they'll be able to start building something around Coop. Also, he's 18, his window for improvement is vast. I think in 2-3 years Coop will be an all star.

Coop is not anywhere of Cade territory, never will be as well

I hope you mean he will likely be better, because if you mean otherwise, it would be a very weird statement from you, and I like Cade. But it's not like he is an all-time prospect, or was, and it's not like he is a top 5 player in his 5th season. He's around 11-12th maybe. Kind of like a Booker level. Cade needed a lot of time to get to this all-nba 3rd team level, too. That's his 5th season. It would absolutely be a letdown if Coop is only at the level of current Cade in his 5th season. Obviously not talking about playmaking but overall impact as a player. They are different styles.

[peZt]

he might be a multi time all star in his career but he doesn’t look like the generational talent he was thought of rn

I think he does look like a generational talent, and I'm not saying this because of the 35 point game. Coop has always been someone who was part of the system, and pretty much had a role player mentality, which sounds bad, but it's actually great. He developed everything else while his physical traits improved further, and now he has an elite package in terms of size, athleticism and b-ball IQ. He also developed his scoring mindset, doesn't fear anyone, and has one of the best work ethics I'v ever seen in a young kid. Worst case scenario is Tatum imo. That's his floor, so a top 5-6 player (if he stays healthy). I also think it's fairly obvious that he is going to be at that level too. He does everything well (will obviously be a good shooter, his mechanics are great, he is a great free throw shooter too).

I like Coop. BUt can we stop throwing this word around like its nothing

[Johnny Firpo]

he might be a multi time all star in his career but he doesn’t look like the generational talent he was thought of rn

I think he does look like a generational talent, and I'm not saying this because of the 35 point game. Coop has always been someone who was part of the system, and pretty much had a role player mentality, which sounds bad, but it's actually great. He developed everything else while his physical traits improved further, and now he has an elite package in terms of size, athleticism and b-ball IQ. He also developed his scoring mindset, doesn't fear anyone, and has one of the best work ethics I'v ever seen in a young kid. Worst case scenario is Tatum imo. That's his floor, so a top 5-6 player (if he stays healthy). I also think it's fairly obvious that he is going to be at that level too. He does everything well (will obviously be a good shooter, his mechanics are great, he is a great free throw shooter too).

I like Coop. BUt can we stop throwing this word around like its nothing

We actually just had a discussion about this, generational talents are not that rare. Every decade has at least 3-4. 80s had MJ, Hakeem, Drexler, 90s had Shaq, Duncan, KG, Kobe, Dirk, 00s had LeBron, CP, KD, Steph,10s had Giannis, Kawhi, Joker, Embiid. There is a generational talent in like every 2-2.5 years on average.

[Ice Man]

Coop is not anywhere of Cade territory, never will be as well

?

Cade's just another All Star. His rep is better than he is because 1) He was a #1 overall pick, 2) He's a high usage player who takes a lot of (not terribly efficient) shots, and 3) His teammates are very good defenders, so Cade gets a lot of wins playing for the Pistons. Had he been drafted by the Hornets, people would think of him quite differently.

A more apt comparison for Cooper would be Tatum. I think it's pretty likely that Coop matches or exceeds Tatum's level, but if you believe otherwise, sure. That would be a legit argument.

[tribulations]

Coops situation reminds me of Cade's. Drafted to a team with many problems that wasn't built around him yet, while the other players drafted around him have better starts to their career.

After a while this Kyrie/AD stuff will end, and they'll be able to start building something around Coop. Also, he's 18, his window for improvement is vast. I think in 2-3 years Coop will be an all star.

Coop is not anywhere of Cade territory, never will be as well

I guess only time will tell if you're wrong but to be so absolute about it ('never'?) right now seems like a searing hot take. Flagg already looks insanely good on eye test alone.

Folks round here were pretty low on Cade when the Pistons were losing a bunch.

[FrodoBaggins]

Cooper is 50/63 (79.4%) at the rim, including 33/41 (80.5%) on non-dunk rim finishes. His dunking (17/22, 77.3%) actually lowers his rim FG%, LOL.

19 of those 50 made rim FGs were assisted (38%); 8 out of 17 made dunks were assisted (47.1%); 11 out of 33 made non-dunk rim finishes were assisted (33.3%).

Additionally, Cooper is 51/113 (45.1%) from 3-16 feet. 12 out of those 51 made FGs were assisted (23.5%).

So, Flagg is scoring really well at the rim when he gets there, despite a very high unassisted rate of 62%. The non-dunk finishing is extremely promising; that left hand is legit, as is the general touch.

The short mid-range game is looking nice, too. That pull-up from 10-16 feet looks really good; he looked like Kawhi hitting those shots tonight. Automatic, robotic, consistent mechanics. I think that's his go-to shot. It flows naturally off his quick two-footed jump.

NBA.com has his expected 2PT% at 52.9%, whereas he's shooting 53.9% (+1%). So he's outperforming the league average on his 2PT shot quality, even with the terrible 16ft+ 2PT shooting (9/28, 32.1%).

[scrabbarista]

Cooper is 50/63 (79.4%) at the rim, including 33/41 (80.5%) on non-dunk rim finishes. His dunking (17/22, 77.3%) actually lowers his rim FG%, LOL.

19 of those 50 made rim FGs were assisted (38%); 8 out of 17 made dunks were assisted (47.1%); 11 out of 33 made non-dunk rim finishes were assisted (33.3%).

Additionally, Cooper is 51/113 (45.1%) from 3-16 feet. 12 out of those 51 made FGs were assisted (23.5%).

So, Flagg is scoring really well at the rim when he gets there, despite a very high unassisted rate of 62%. The non-dunk finishing is extremely promising; that left hand is legit, as is the general touch.

The short mid-range game is looking nice, too. That pull-up from 10-16 feet looks really good; he looked like Kawhi hitting those shots tonight. Automatic, robotic, consistent mechanics. I think that's his go-to shot. It flows naturally off his quick two-footed jump stops.

NBA.com has his expected 2PT% at 52.9%, whereas he's shooting 53.9% (+1%). So he's outperforming the league average on his 2PT shot quality, even with the terrible 16ft+ 2PT shooting (9/28, 32.1%).

To summarize, using one of the words that's most-often been used to describe his game: he's a bully.

[The Master]

? Cade's just another All Star. His rep is better than he is because 1) He was a #1 overall pick, 2) He's a high usage player who takes a lot of (not terribly efficient) shots, and 3) His teammates are very good defenders, so Cade gets a lot of wins playing for the Pistons. Had he been drafted by the Hornets, people would think of him quite differently.

A more apt comparison for Cooper would be Tatum. I think it's pretty likely that Coop matches or exceeds Tatum's level, but if you believe otherwise, sure. That would be a legit argument.

Truth to be told - Cade, with his improvement on defense and workload on offense, is something more than 'just another all star'.

But Flagg was a better prospect on collegiate level and I guess he'll have a better beginning of the NBA career than Cade in his first seasons, so it's pointless to say that he'll never become a better player. It's not like Cade has become another Steph Curry.

Re: Flagg - I think we'll see more and more (Lakers, Clippers games) in the latter part of the season why he was so ahead of the curve as a prospect, so just wait. Now, I'm waiting more to see his shooting finally improving.

[Ice Man]

Truth to be told - Cade, with his improvement on defense and workload on offense, is something more than 'just another all star'.

Well, fair enough. I might have overstated the case.

[FrodoBaggins]

Most promising is Cooper's downhill paint scoring. He's shot 43/63 on 2PT FGs over the last 6 games. That's 68.3% 2PT on 10.5 2pa/g. And most of that is unassisted (off-the-dribble) and in the half-court setting. 18/24 in the restricted area (RA), with a 61.1% unassisted rate. 19/26 in the non-RA paint, with a 68.4% unassisted rate. 6/13 on mid-range 2PT shots outside of the paint, with a 66.7% unassisted rate.

He looks to have a real touch in that non-RA paint area. His strong frame, great balance, quick two-footed leaping, and soft touch give me confidence that this is a real strength of his ability. He could be a real rim-pressure bull when he adds 15-20+ lbs and gets up to 240-245+. I can't think of any wing comparisons in this regard. Something between LBJ or a wing-sized Giannis, but off two feet. Like a taller, skinnier, less powerful Barkley.

Update on these numbers:

Most promising is Cooper's downhill paint scoring. He's shot 68/112 on 2PT FGs over the last 10 games. That's 60.7% 2PT on 11.2 2pa/g. And most of that is unassisted (off-the-dribble) and in the half-court setting. 32/43 in the restricted area (RA), with a 71.9% unassisted rate. 27/49 in the non-RA paint, with a 66.7% unassisted rate. 9/20 on mid-range 2PT shots outside of the paint, with a 66.7% unassisted rate.

63/98 (64.3%) from 0-16 feet, 30.2% assisted/69.8% unassisted. 64.3% on 9.8 2pa/g.

[bonita_the_frog]

Cooper is 50/63 (79.4%) at the rim, including 33/41 (80.5%) on non-dunk rim finishes. His dunking (17/22, 77.3%) actually lowers his rim FG%, LOL.

19 of those 50 made rim FGs were assisted (38%); 8 out of 17 made dunks were assisted (47.1%); 11 out of 33 made non-dunk rim finishes were assisted (33.3%).

Additionally, Cooper is 51/113 (45.1%) from 3-16 feet. 12 out of those 51 made FGs were assisted (23.5%).

So, Flagg is scoring really well at the rim when he gets there, despite a very high unassisted rate of 62%. The non-dunk finishing is extremely promising; that left hand is legit, as is the general touch.

The short mid-range game is looking nice, too. That pull-up from 10-16 feet looks really good; he looked like Kawhi hitting those shots tonight. Automatic, robotic, consistent mechanics. I think that's his go-to shot. It flows naturally off his quick two-footed jump.

NBA.com has his expected 2PT% at 52.9%, whereas he's shooting 53.9% (+1%). So he's outperforming the league average on his 2PT shot quality, even with the terrible 16ft+ 2PT shooting (9/28, 32.1%).

This is a masterclass in statistical analysis, bravo!

[BmanInBigD]

Coops situation reminds me of Cade's. Drafted to a team with many problems that wasn't built around him yet, while the other players drafted around him have better starts to their career.

After a while this Kyrie/AD stuff will end, and they'll be able to start building something around Coop. Also, he's 18, his window for improvement is vast. I think in 2-3 years Coop will be an all star.

Coop is not anywhere of Cade territory, never will be as well

That's a weird thing to say when Coop's numbers (at 18 yo, 20 games in) are as good as or better than Cade's were his rookie season ( at 20 yo).

[peZt]

I think he does look like a generational talent, and I'm not saying this because of the 35 point game. Coop has always been someone who was part of the system, and pretty much had a role player mentality, which sounds bad, but it's actually great. He developed everything else while his physical traits improved further, and now he has an elite package in terms of size, athleticism and b-ball IQ. He also developed his scoring mindset, doesn't fear anyone, and has one of the best work ethics I'v ever seen in a young kid. Worst case scenario is Tatum imo. That's his floor, so a top 5-6 player (if he stays healthy). I also think it's fairly obvious that he is going to be at that level too. He does everything well (will obviously be a good shooter, his mechanics are great, he is a great free throw shooter too).

I like Coop. BUt can we stop throwing this word around like its nothing

We actually just had a discussion about this, generational talents are not that rare. Every decade has at least 3-4. 80s had MJ, Hakeem, Drexler, 90s had Shaq, Duncan, KG, Kobe, Dirk, 00s had LeBron, CP, KD, Steph,10s had Giannis, Kawhi, Joker, Embiid. There is a generational talent in like every 2-2.5 years on average.

Generational talents, by definition, need to be rare or you need to find another term. If every decade has AT LEAST 4, then the term "generational talent" doesnt mean what it means anymore

[Handlez]

Youngest player in NBA history to score 35.

Why TF aren't the Mavs trading everyone?

[Mirotic12]

I think he does look like a generational talent, and I'm not saying this because of the 35 point game. Coop has always been someone who was part of the system, and pretty much had a role player mentality, which sounds bad, but it's actually great. He developed everything else while his physical traits improved further, and now he has an elite package in terms of size, athleticism and b-ball IQ. He also developed his scoring mindset, doesn't fear anyone, and has one of the best work ethics I'v ever seen in a young kid. Worst case scenario is Tatum imo. That's his floor, so a top 5-6 player (if he stays healthy). I also think it's fairly obvious that he is going to be at that level too. He does everything well (will obviously be a good shooter, his mechanics are great, he is a great free throw shooter too).

I like Coop. BUt can we stop throwing this word around like its nothing

We actually just had a discussion about this, generational talents are not that rare. Every decade has at least 3-4. 80s had MJ, Hakeem, Drexler, 90s had Shaq, Duncan, KG, Kobe, Dirk, 00s had LeBron, CP, KD, Steph,10s had Giannis, Kawhi, Joker, Embiid. There is a generational talent in like every 2-2.5 years on average.

None of those players was a generational talent, except for Shaq, and maybe, just perhaps maybe, LeBron. But even LeBron is debatable.

[chilluminati]

Coops situation reminds me of Cade's. Drafted to a team with many problems that wasn't built around him yet, while the other players drafted around him have better starts to their career.

After a while this Kyrie/AD stuff will end, and they'll be able to start building something around Coop. Also, he's 18, his window for improvement is vast. I think in 2-3 years Coop will be an all star.

Coop is not anywhere of Cade territory, never will be as well

I was speaking on their situations as rookies as they both were drafted to teams with major issues and didn't have teams around them that made sense, not necessarily comparing them. Not sure about him never being on Cade's level, but just like with Cade we couldn't see his true potential until he was given teammates that compliment his game. The Mavs are a dumpster fire and that roster is not conducive to Coop's development. Only time will tell.

[BigGargamel]

Remember when this board wrote off an 18 year old after like 2 weeks? Never change, RealGM.

Kid is EIGHTEEN YEARS OLD averaging 16/5/3. He's going to be great, very soon.

[BigGargamel]

I like Coop. BUt can we stop throwing this word around like its nothing

We actually just had a discussion about this, generational talents are not that rare. Every decade has at least 3-4. 80s had MJ, Hakeem, Drexler, 90s had Shaq, Duncan, KG, Kobe, Dirk, 00s had LeBron, CP, KD, Steph,10s had Giannis, Kawhi, Joker, Embiid. There is a generational talent in like every 2-2.5 years on average.

Generational talents, by definition, need to be rare or you need to find another term. If every decade has AT LEAST 4, then the term "generational talent" doesnt mean what it means anymore

Yes. This is such a pet peeve of mine. "Generational talent" is the most overused term in basketball right now. Find a new word. All Star talent. All Pro talent. Whatever. Generational means once a generation. If it's every two or three years, that's not a "generation". Say something else.

Shaquille O'Neal
LeBron James
Victor Wembanyama

Once a generation. Guys you knew would be MVP candidates well before they were drafted.

[BigGargamel]

I like Coop. BUt can we stop throwing this word around like its nothing

We actually just had a discussion about this, generational talents are not that rare. Every decade has at least 3-4. 80s had MJ, Hakeem, Drexler, 90s had Shaq, Duncan, KG, Kobe, Dirk, 00s had LeBron, CP, KD, Steph,10s had Giannis, Kawhi, Joker, Embiid. There is a generational talent in like every 2-2.5 years on average.

None of those players was a generational talent, except for Shaq, and maybe, just perhaps maybe, LeBron. But even LeBron is debatable.

Didn't think I'd wake up this morning and read someone saying LeBron James, the most hyped sports prospect EVER, wasn't a generational talent. I've seen it all.

[Andri]

So we have someone listing CP3 or KG as generational talents, and other not even including MJ in the list.

We need an official RealGM dictionary ASAP