What are the Sixers doing?

[kingofthecourt67]

If I said something irrational than by all means lets continue our discussion. Resorting to ad hominem because it's convenient is lazy.

I find the reduction of every player to these statistical abstractions to be the height of irrationality. You guys talk about players like anaylst talking about stocks. It's not building a team; it's the Orwellian 'asset managament' rubbish.

The metrics say Noel is great. That's fantastic. Ive seen teams play against Philly. I can't say these teams' intensity has made the game a must-watch.

Yeah MCW's metrics werent great. How did playing with a D league roster help him? Watch him play in Milwaukee.

And don't forget your young players are being developed in an environment when winning is not a priority. Metrics won't account for whether or not those players can rise to the next level if you ever make the playoffs.

But the fact posters are dropping terms like 'conveying' draft picks (I've never heard the word used in this context in my 20 years of fandom) as Hinkie does tells me some have drank the Kool-aid.

Ran a quick Google search...

http://www.nba.com/2015/news/02/19/blaz ... ets-trade/

If Portland's 2016 first round draft pick is not conveyed to Denver, it will move to a 2017 lottery-protected first round pick. If that pick is not conveyed, the Nuggets will receive two future second round picks.

http://www.foxsports.com/nba/story/bost ... ndo-010915

The Boston Celtics' goal this season has been clear: trade players to gain as many future draft picks and assets as possible. They traded Brandan Wright for one first-round pick on Friday, and reportedly have agree to trade Jeff Green for another.

This pick is top-10 protected and the Cavs are a virtual lock to not have a pick that high, so it's more than likely going to be conveyed to the Celtics.

Beware...our cultish habits are not only spreading to Boston but all the way out to Portland. Clearly Hinkie was novel in bringing in the phrase "assets" to the NBA

And you're just being lazy by explaining away our wins as a product of "decreased intensity." In fact, our defense has been in the top-12 league over the last couple of months. I think that might better explain our wins rather than teams taking it easy.

You seem to not be a fan of analytics, but all it takes is a simple eye test to see that MCW can't shoot/finish that well at this stage in his career. Will he get it fixed? That remains to be seen...but there was more than analytics in play here.

As far as winning goes, not quite sure why you think that. If you would care to watch our team play, and this is supported by numerous opponents, our effort, hustle, and grit is constantly commended. We come to play, regardless of who is out on the floor for us. In fact, we blew out a Denver team that was accused of actually tanking games because they were feuding with their coach.

Players have their shots tracked during shoot around. They wear technology that tracks when they sleep. Their is a high level of accountability and a focus on player development that you would be hard-pressed to find in the rest of the league.

[Grits n Gravy]

Sixers better pray that the pick falls outside the top 5 this year. I wouldn't want to take the chances with all the variables in the off season where the Lakers will have cap space and a top 5 rookie who they could and probably would trade for a win now piece in maybe Kobe's last season. IMO there is absolutely no defending the KJ McDaniels trade, guy looks incredibly promising but they are not willing to pay him? Yet they are prepared to pay Javale Mcgee? Absolutely crazy to me.

Stockholm syndrome is real, I experienced it first hand with David Kahn.

[Insomniaac]

It's like a cult. You're even parroting some of the same terminology he's using.

Best of your luck with your rebuild. All these years and 'asset management', maybe for a 35 win team.

I'm confused...why is 'asset management' in quotes? Is taking a systemic and rational approach to team building concerning to you? Has the word 'asset' never been used in the realm of sports?

Interestingly, I just read Hinkie saying he never refers to players as assets, only picks.

I wonder how players feel when being thought of as 'assets'.

Players know this business better than any of us.. They'd be naive to not understand they're thought of as assets in a lot of situations.

They've only been tanking for a season and a half and they probably won't even end up with the worst record either of the years. They've actually been better than a handful of teams the past couple months. I don't understand what people are so upset about, they're about as interesting as the rest of the trash at the bottom of the east, they're just gonna end up with a better pick than most of them.

[Mik317]

I am sure I'll be accused of being a part of a cult or experiencing stockholm syndrome...but Javale McGee was the price to pay for a potential firstround pick, to get us to the salary floor and potentially get flipped for more picks if we are lucky.

That has nothing to do with KJ or MCW..and McGee's price is for 1 more year (if that), KJ's might have been just as much but for longer.There is a difference.

I don't like the deal either but lets not use false analogies to prove why it sucks pls.

[GallagherArt]

I find the reduction of every player to these statistical abstractions to be the height of irrationality. You guys talk about players like anaylst talking about stocks. It's not building a team; it's the Orwellian 'asset managament' rubbish.

I mean, I suppose analytics being so intrinsic and rooted in the building of a team is sort of abnormal in today's NBA, however despite that, there seems to be some coherent reasoning to the decisions that have been made than besides just the numbers.

Yeah MCW's metrics werent great. How did playing with a D league roster help him? Watch him play in Milwaukee.

I will continue to be a fan of MCW's and he should do well on the Bucks, he was in an inopportune situation, however his deficiencies only seemed to compact things here.

And don't forget your young players are being developed in an environment when winning is not a priority. Metrics won't account for whether or not those players can rise to the next level if you ever make the playoffs.

Development is priority, winning by association. I don't know how winning games directly affects development of players exactly, but it's not as if they're not striving to win or improve.

But the fact posters are dropping terms like 'conveying' draft picks (I've never heard the word used in this context in my 20 years of fandom) as Hinkie does tells me some have drank the Kool-aid.

I'm not sure when 'conveying' specifically became apart of my diction, I don't believe it was recently though.

[42uptop]

That's assumed based on their reputations coming out of college (and in Noel's case, his 50 NBA games, still a small sample size). Noel has been hit and miss this year. His offense is borderline terrible. 8.2ppg on 7.8fga with a TS% of .467 is flat out bad for a 7 footer, rookie or not. His defense is at times outstanding and is obviously his calling card, and there's no doubt he should be a game changer at that end for his entire career, but what if his offense fails to progress? Then a lotto pick in the 6-10 range maybe becomes attractive to Hinkie. If Embiid continues to struggle with injury, what then?

Point being, they are worth more than a future lottery pick until the moment that they are no longer worth more than a future lottery pick.

Again, your post is too disingenuous to take seriously. The exact same arguments could be made for every rebuilding team including your own. What if Elfrid Payton continues to suck offensively? What if Aaron Gordon continues to deal with injuries through the remainder of is career? What if, what if, what if? We're talking about rookies here, they aren't going to light it up out of the gate. However, both Noel and Embiid were consensus number 1 picks before their injuries, so there is reason to have higher expectations for them than MCW.

All we heard last year was that Julius Randle and Jabari Parker were "safe picks" and Noel was never going to stay healthy because of his size and ACL injury. Turns out that RealGM posters don't know much about medical science in athletics, who knew?

Sure, if these hypothetical situations you bring up happen then we can start talking about trading away young talent for picks and firing Hinkie. But that's the flaw in your argument, it's nothing more than an unlikely hypothetical scenario, and I can make a similar Doomsday prediction for every NBA team. Doesn't mean that it has any validity or should be taken seriously.

[lakersin4]

It makes sense in a way. They weren't sold on MCW as the starting PG they should keep around for the future, so they got assets for him. They're just going to keep throwing **** against the wall until something sticks. Eventually 1 or 2 of these draft picks is going to be an allstar talent that you attempt to build a winning team around.

[bryanwithawhy]

I think Hinkie hit the nail on the head in his Press Conference. And people are proving it in this thread.

Humans are scared of uncertainty in the future. People don't act rationally when it comes to uncertainty in the future. Hinkie is taking advantage of that thanks to ownership giving him a longer leash than other GM's have. Plus, Hinkie is one of the brightest minds in the NBA.

[SavageBel]

Hinkie knows what he's doing. We're in a great position to be great.
Watch his presser, very interesting.

[bryanwithawhy]

Sixers better pray that the pick falls outside the top 5 this year. I wouldn't want to take the chances with all the variables in the off season where the Lakers will have cap space and a top 5 rookie who they could and probably would trade for a win now piece in maybe Kobe's last season. IMO there is absolutely no defending the KJ McDaniels trade, guy looks incredibly promising but they are not willing to pay him? Yet they are prepared to pay Javale Mcgee? Absolutely crazy to me.

Stockholm syndrome is real, I experienced it first hand with David Kahn.

It's funny how people don't understand the KJ deal. KJ was going to be a restricted free agent. That means the Sixers would have the opportunity to overpay him in free agency which will turn him into a net negative player when factoring in his contract. If you know anything about negotiations you would know the power of Free Agency. A player who is currently under contract can negotiate with 1 team whereas a free agent can negotiate with 30 teams.

Free agency is always going to be bad value due to the CBA. The only FA contracts that are valuable are max-level players. (Obviously, there are some exceptions, but for the most part this is true.)

There are so many players getting paid 8-12 million a year that don't move the needle at all. This league is about stars. Free Agency is horrible value. Instead of wasting his cap on players that don't bring value, Hinkie is using the cap space to absorb other teams' bad contracts in exchange for picks. Yes, picks! People are scared of the future and it is hilarious. Hinkie is beasting this league and doing it flawlessly.

[Freefloater]

IMO there is absolutely no defending the KJ McDaniels trade, guy looks incredibly promising but they are not willing to pay him?

But they got even more promising player for him...Cannonball is believed to be a future all-star by some experts...Perhaps you didn't watch him play?

[SOUL]

I don't mind what Hinkie is doing at all.

The two downfalls to this I see is: Putting everything in the Embiid basket and the draft pick this year (they're banking on a top 3 pick, I don't think they want to come out of this with Stanley Johnson. Embiid's quite the player - if healthy I think he will beast but obviously his health concern is a little bit more serious than any other injuries this year so far (Randle, Gordon, etc). Embiid alone is either going to speed up this process by years or delay it by years.

The revolving door effect on players. I think players want to feel at least a little secure and wanted by a team. If the front office isn't doing that and players don't know what's really going on, it may effect them when it's contract time. They don't have to worry about that now, or probably if/when the team gets really good because it won't be as frequent, but it could have a negative effect on players.

That being said, if you're going to suck, then hey. Can't really hate. There will certainly be a good foundation.

[bryanwithawhy]

You guys do realize that having the right to match a KJ contract in Free Agency is not worth more than Canaan and a second round pick?

Something else that should be mentioned. Hinkie loves options and flexibility. Which is why he loves 2nd round picks. He loves the Hinkie special where he gives four year contracts where he gets a team option after each year. If the player shows signs of improving he opts in for the next year. If the player is showing no value he declines the option and clears his balance sheet.

[FutureKnicksGM]

Don't like the KJ trade (although i think cannon has some game).

Love the MCW trade. They didn't think he was there pg of the future so sold high. I think they can draft their future backcourt this year if the Lakers pick is not top 5 (Russell/Mudiay & Hezonja with the LA pick).

[83SixersRocked]

In other news, Jason Richardson played his first game in over two years last night.

[BullyKing]

I don't mind what Hinkie is doing at all.

The two downfalls to this I see is: Putting everything in the Embiid basket and the draft pick this year (they're banking on a top 3 pick, I don't think they want to come out of this with Stanley Johnson. Embiid's quite the player - if healthy I think he will beast but obviously his health concern is a little bit more serious than any other injuries this year so far (Randle, Gordon, etc). Embiid alone is either going to speed up this process by years or delay it by years.

The revolving door effect on players. I think players want to feel at least a little secure and wanted by a team. If the front office isn't doing that and players don't know what's really going on, it may effect them when it's contract time. They don't have to worry about that now, or probably if/when the team gets really good because it won't be as frequent, but it could have a negative effect on players.

That being said, if you're going to suck, then hey. Can't really hate. There will certainly be a good foundation.

See, I think these are perfectly fair and rational criticisms without resorting to absurd straw man arguments.

[Ruzious]

It makes sense in a way. They weren't sold on MCW as the starting PG they should keep around for the future, so they got assets for him. They're just going to keep throwing **** against the wall until something sticks. Eventually 1 or 2 of these draft picks is going to be an allstar talent that you attempt to build a winning team around.

Ultimately, their success or failure rides on Embiid. Will he stay healthy, and if he does - do they have an environment set to help him succeed. Both remain to be seen. If they end up with Russell in this draft, that should do a lot to help him succeed (if he stays healthy). If they don't, what do they have - other than recyclable pieces that may never form a successful team.

[HartfordWhalers]

It makes sense in a way. They weren't sold on MCW as the starting PG they should keep around for the future, so they got assets for him. They're just going to keep throwing **** against the wall until something sticks. Eventually 1 or 2 of these draft picks is going to be an allstar talent that you attempt to build a winning team around.

Ultimately, their success or failure rides on Embiid. Will he stay healthy, and if he does - do they have an environment set to help him succeed. Both remain to be seen. If they end up with Russell in this draft, that should do a lot to help him succeed (if he stays healthy). If they don't, what do they have - other than recyclable pieces that may never form a successful team.

Sixers have:
Noel, Embiid, Philly 2015 1st, Lakers 2015 1st, Saric and then the Miami 2015 1st, OKC 2015 1st, and a bunch of cheap role players.

If the argument is that if Embiid and the 2015 Philly 1st and the Lakers pick and Noel don;t pan out enough, then the Sixers will have their 2016 1st to try again.

But for a team that formerly had no chances at a superstar, the Sixers have managed to give themselves a few bites at the apple in a very short time. The argument that they might not get one just shows how important and hard to achieve the goal they are setting for themselves.

[RealRapsFan]

It makes sense in a way. They weren't sold on MCW as the starting PG they should keep around for the future, so they got assets for him. They're just going to keep throwing **** against the wall until something sticks. Eventually 1 or 2 of these draft picks is going to be an allstar talent that you attempt to build a winning team around.

Ultimately, their success or failure rides on Embiid. Will he stay healthy, and if he does - do they have an environment set to help him succeed. Both remain to be seen. If they end up with Russell in this draft, that should do a lot to help him succeed (if he stays healthy). If they don't, what do they have - other than recyclable pieces that may never form a successful team.

Why does their success or failure ride on Embiid? They have other players, draft picks, and cap space. They have the ability to draft more players, trade for players and sign players. Generally speaking they have a slew of valuable assets and numerous roads to take to rebuild their team.

As it stands Embiid may be the 'favorite' to be their star/franchise changer, but that doesn't mean we should be pigeon holing the future of a franchise based on a single player. If we look at the 76ers and completely ignore Embiid, I think they still have a ton of assets at their disposal and it becomes how well those assets are managed that decides the success of that team.

[MoneyTalks41890]

I love the McGee deal. And I like the risk in the MCW deal because he is not really that good atm. Maybe Kidd can mold him, but that wasn't happening in Philly.

Hate the McDaniels deal. A lot.