Giannis just made a lot of these nba stars look pathetic

[DCasey91]

The only reason he won was that other stars got injured.

Prove it.

You're entitled to your own opinion, but if he doesn't win another championship his legacy will be undercut. It's the same reason why historically no one will mention the Kawhi Raptors. These kinds of championships are only good for the fan base. Bucks fans should take pride in how their team played. They beat who's in front of them. But if you want to talk about legacy I and many other fans will distinguish between championships when major competition is injured and championships when major competition is healthy. If MJ went down in game 1 and the Jazz beat the Bulls that wouldn't make the Jazz better than the Bulls lol.

Dude Robo Jordan killed everyone that year. Raptors even though I can never watch that series again was a great team. Had abit of everything to it.

I’m glad GSW didn’t threepeat. Lebron and Durant keep breaking parity repeatedly. Robo Jordan was on a mission in a place he wasn’t going to stay at but was loved and revered in Toronto.

That’s one legacy move that he should have stayed but home is home.

Still the Raptors 19’ is a heck of nice championship squad.

[WeSkrongDen]

Obviously. Take 2016 as an example.

Is the cast of Cleveland better than the Bucks cast taking into consideration the opposition? That is the question you must be asking finals wise at least.

With KD I take his 2 rings as kind of meh, but still he performed and has to be given credit.

Sure Giannis was great in the finals and he has been great. Let's not act like he achieved this against a healthy 17 Warriors or something like that, because that's not the case at all.

LeBron's cast in 2016 was better because of Kyrie. He's significantly better than any of Giannis' teammates. Holiday and Middleton are better than Love was but Kyrie was just special. He outplayed Curry, the league MVP and locked him up. Thompson was also better and more versatile than Lopez. But 2016 is the only ring LeBron has that has any credibility. And LeBron thought he had a superteam but Love was exposed as overrated. But LeBron's intent was to form a superteam in Cleveland.

Why is it the only one? 2012 Bosh missed most of the ECF and Lebron had to have a huge series to get past the Celtics and the Thunder team he beat may have been less experienced but it was just as talented. 2013 was a tight series and Lebron had 2 huge performances in consecutive elimination games to win. Giannis team just closed out the ECF without him

Wade one of the 50 best players in NBA history, a guy who carried a team to a title on his back. End of discussion. LeBron's MO to team up with one of the best players in the league.

[Jadoogar]

he won without a super team

Don't see it everyday

Yeah he didn't have two other all-stars on his... er... wait a minute... It wasn't a super-team sure.. but it wasn't a bunch of scrubs either.

Congrats to Bucks and Buck Fans! What a wonderful year for you and your team.

You need good players to win a title? no way?!?!?!

Khris Middleton and Jrue Holiday aren't even in the same stratosphere as guys like Wade, Kyrie, Chris Bosh, Anthony Davis, Steph Curry(!!!!).

All star is such a useless metric to use here. Julius Randle, Pascal Siakam, Kyle Korver have been allstars, are they forming a super team?

[DCasey91]

Wait of course Kawhi’s run will be remembered lol.
And so will that Raptors team.

Dude was Robo Jordan. And that game 7 winner will forever be burned into the memories of a looooooooooooot of people.

[WeSkrongDen]

The only reason he won was that other stars got injured.

Prove it.

The Nets took the Bucks to 7 with a hobbled Harden playing at 25% and no Kyrie. It's clear to everyone with a brain that they would have won with a healthy roster. And of course it's a Raptors fan defending an injury ring.

Arguably the most talented team ever constructed if healthy. Wow, they didn't beat what could be the best team in NBA history at full strength? That's not a knock in anyway. That team's only weakness is durability and that's what got them.

[Ugalde]

lol at people blaming injuries...how about don’t get injured then. you know why giannis is so durable? he plays. he plays hard. these other guys rest half the season and wonder why their body can’t handle it when the time comes.

there’s a reason all the load managing teams keep getting injured.

giannis > all these half a season super team bums

[imDatknicksTape]

Lebron's and Lakers 2020 ring needs an asterisk. Not sayin he didnt deserve it, both teams didnt have to travel by car of plane and was living lavishly at the disney resorts. That one def was a stupid ring

[Tha Cynic]

It'll be interesting too see what the media talk will be like. I realized after the Raptors win that the NBA has a lot of xenophobia, especially within the media. Giannis dominated the playoffs and had one of the best runs of all time. Let's see how long these talks last before we go back to talking about the usual media hype.

[WeSkrongDen]

All these people keep talking about the Nets injuries. They added Harden because they know there's a good chance Kyrie wouldn't be available. And Harden was fat and out of shape, that's whey he kept pulling his hammy. He looked okay the last two games and didn't have the mentality like Giannis. If he was in shape and had the right attitude, he would have been fine. The Nets only flaw was injuries and that was what got them. Don't be surprised if they have guys go down next year in the playoffs and the year after. Durant isn't exactly mr durable either.

[Bornstellar]

LeBron's cast in 2016 was better because of Kyrie. He's significantly better than any of Giannis' teammates. Holiday and Middleton are better than Love was but Kyrie was just special. He outplayed Curry, the league MVP and locked him up. Thompson was also better and more versatile than Lopez. But 2016 is the only ring LeBron has that has any credibility. And LeBron thought he had a superteam but Love was exposed as overrated. But LeBron's intent was to form a superteam in Cleveland.

Why is it the only one? 2012 Bosh missed most of the ECF and Lebron had to have a huge series to get past the Celtics and the Thunder team he beat may have been less experienced but it was just as talented. 2013 was a tight series and Lebron had 2 huge performances in consecutive elimination games to win. Giannis team just closed out the ECF without him

Wade one of the 50 best players in NBA history, a guy who carried a team to a title on his back. End of discussion. LeBron's MO to team up with one of the best players in the league.

This is only the end of the discussion if you don't actually look at context or want to present a disingenuous argument


Magic/Kareem - both top 50 players
Larry/McHale - both top 50 players
Jordan/Pippen - both top 50 players
Kobe/Shaq - both top 50 players
Robinson/Duncan - both top 50 players
Wade/Shaq - both top 50 players
Kobe/Gasol - both top 50 players


Why is is that LeBron is the only player who gets crucified for playing with other top tier talent? Wade was a shell of himself by 2013 and Bosh was never a top 10 player to begin with

[LesGrossman]

I mean, after the Nets series, noone would call KD's performance "pathetic". In my view, he showed that he is clear cut the best player the league has and theres no shame in losing a team game if unfortunate injuries happen. Also, i stick by my point that the move Giannis pulled on Kyrie was borderline dirty; those guys are pros and know EXACTLY what they do when they step under an airborne player.

Its not so much Giannis as it is karma that the Bucks came out more or less as the only team without severe injuries. Thats why i hold Dirks title in higher regard - not only was his team much much weaker, he also had to beat legit superteams at their full force. The attempts to spin the narrative ("advanced statistics say otherwise!") are just sad imho.

KD arguably wasnt even better than Giannis in their series, and this Finals performances dwarves any series KD has had

Thats your opinion and youre entitled to it. Its not a fact though, i'd label it as recency bias and probably a negative bias towards KD that clouds your judgement.

[nikster]

LeBron's cast in 2016 was better because of Kyrie. He's significantly better than any of Giannis' teammates. Holiday and Middleton are better than Love was but Kyrie was just special. He outplayed Curry, the league MVP and locked him up. Thompson was also better and more versatile than Lopez. But 2016 is the only ring LeBron has that has any credibility. And LeBron thought he had a superteam but Love was exposed as overrated. But LeBron's intent was to form a superteam in Cleveland.

Why is it the only one? 2012 Bosh missed most of the ECF and Lebron had to have a huge series to get past the Celtics and the Thunder team he beat may have been less experienced but it was just as talented. 2013 was a tight series and Lebron had 2 huge performances in consecutive elimination games to win. Giannis team just closed out the ECF without him

Wade one of the 50 best players in NBA history, a guy who carried a team to a title on his back. End of discussion. LeBron's MO to team up with one of the best players in the league.

in 2013 and 2012 he was not that player. End of discussion because your biased and don't want to discuss nuance. LeBron had to play at an extremely high level, similar to Giannis in these finals, in order to win every one of his rings.

[CIN-C-STAR]

Giannis > KD fo sho

[kg01]

The only reason he won was that other stars got injured.

Prove it.

The Nets took the Bucks to 7 with a hobbled Harden playing at 25% and no Kyrie. It's clear to everyone with a brain that they would have won with a healthy roster. And of course it's a Raptors fan defending an injury ring.

Wait, what? Raptors fan? Who? How?

And we don't know what the Nets would've done fully healthy. We can only suppose.

[mulamutti]

Lebron's ring last year was not on a super team.

A super team is any team that is formed overnight via forced and collusive trades. Lebron obviously colluded with a top 5 level player in the league, while he was on contract and forced his way into the Lakers. I would classify this as a super team.

Basically a team that is gently developed over time, with good scouting, development, coaching, system, playoff battles, etc. is what you consider a well deserving winner. So yes I agree with the general sentiment that Giannis's rings > Lebron and KD's rings. Particularly KD. The non-super team championship winners of recent years are the bucks obviously, the raptors, and the pre-durant warriors, mavericks.

Even the Spurs (Duncan/Pop), Lakers (Kobe/Gasol and Kobe/Shaq) and Bulls dynasties were all formed pretty organically. Acquired players through the draft and developed them, a trade or two to get them over the top. So i consider those pretty legit championships.

Lebron and Durant have been the primary offenders and deserve only asterisk-championships IMO. I love Lebron's game and root for him on most matchups, but the collusive super-teamy nature of his teams does diminish the quality of his championships, and dont even get me started on Durant.

While Lebron and Durant are the primary offenders that have reaped rewards in the form of championships, the list of unsuccessful offenders is quite long: Harden, Kyrie, AD, the Warriors getting durant, paul george, kawhi(for leaving a system and forcing a trade out while on contract), and several other players. I hope Booker, Doncic, Young, Jokic and the current era of stars learn from Giannis' example and stay for the long haul. create true rivalries like the old days.

[eagereyez]

Prove it.

The Nets took the Bucks to 7 with a hobbled Harden playing at 25% and no Kyrie. It's clear to everyone with a brain that they would have won with a healthy roster. And of course it's a Raptors fan defending an injury ring.

Wait, what? Raptors fan? Who? How?

And we don't know what the Nets would've done fully healthy. We can only suppose.

Ah my bad, thought I was quoting another post.

And yes, we can only guess what would have happened. But some guesses are more certain than others. The Nets lost an MVP caliber player and an All-Star. And still took the eventual champs to 7. Seems clear as day what would have happened had all 3 been healthy.

And yes, health is part of the game. Every year there are injuries to key players. I agree and I don't like assigning asterisks for that reason. It's dumb in most cases. But what happened this year was a crazy outlier. Harden was an ironman his entire career, up until this year which was riddled with freak injuries.

[DCasey91]

Why is it the only one? 2012 Bosh missed most of the ECF and Lebron had to have a huge series to get past the Celtics and the Thunder team he beat may have been less experienced but it was just as talented. 2013 was a tight series and Lebron had 2 huge performances in consecutive elimination games to win. Giannis team just closed out the ECF without him

Wade one of the 50 best players in NBA history, a guy who carried a team to a title on his back. End of discussion. LeBron's MO to team up with one of the best players in the league.

This is only the end of the discussion if you don't actually look at context or want to present a disingenuous argument


Magic/Kareem - both top 50 players
Larry/McHale - both top 50 players
Jordan/Pippen - both top 50 players
Kobe/Shaq - both top 50 players
Robinson/Duncan - both top 50 players
Wade/Shaq - both top 50 players
Kobe/Gasol - both top 50 players


Why is is that LeBron is the only player who gets crucified for playing with other top tier talent? Wade was a shell of himself by 2013 and Bosh was never a top 10 player to begin with

It’s simple both Lebron and Durant NBA historically speaking are the biggest parity breakers and it’s not even close to close.

They are mercenaries. Nothing about either of their choosing is organic it’s literally my league stuff.

Do you know how long it’s been before all of this happened with colluding and buddy buddy team up? Since 08’ by my count. I do dock parity breakers when they do it on purpose.

The other duos were more or less made organically.
They were drafted Kobe, Pippen, Bird, Magic, Wade etc. or trades happened

Not how Lebron and Durant did it.

LeGM? Theres a reason for that moniker tag.

Durant’s legacy is really what? The weakest but best scoring mercenary ever.

Which sucks for him because as a player he’s box office.

He literally went to a 73-9 team. Cmon now.

[LesGrossman]

Why is it the only one? 2012 Bosh missed most of the ECF and Lebron had to have a huge series to get past the Celtics and the Thunder team he beat may have been less experienced but it was just as talented. 2013 was a tight series and Lebron had 2 huge performances in consecutive elimination games to win. Giannis team just closed out the ECF without him

Wade one of the 50 best players in NBA history, a guy who carried a team to a title on his back. End of discussion. LeBron's MO to team up with one of the best players in the league.

This is only the end of the discussion if you don't actually look at context or want to present a disingenuous argument


Magic/Kareem - both top 50 players
Larry/McHale - both top 50 players
Jordan/Pippen - both top 50 players
Kobe/Shaq - both top 50 players
Robinson/Duncan - both top 50 players
Wade/Shaq - both top 50 players
Kobe/Gasol - both top 50 players


Why is is that LeBron is the only player who gets crucified for playing with other top tier talent? Wade was a shell of himself by 2013 and Bosh was never a top 10 player to begin with

the attempts to discredit Wade and Bosh, Love and Kyrie are beyond ridiculous.

As for your question: You dont think it makes a difference wether a generational talent actually develops a rookie into an all star, or just buys him? Pippen didnt come out of nowhere. Kobe and Shaq grew together. Duncan helped MAKING Tony Parker, Manu into the players they became.

Meanwhile, LeBron joined Wade who won a ring by himself before, and Bosh who was considered a top 10 player easily. It does not matter that - probably because he played next to LeBron - his production suffered. By the time they came together, all three were absolute superstars and franchise players.

[mademan]

This is getting a little far. Ya, Giannis didnt have a superteam, but he's an MVP level player who had the best supporting cast in every series besides maybe PHX, where him being a superstar MVP level player put them over the edge.

You dont really need a superteam. You just need the best team, which Giannis had. He still played at a ridiculous level and should be given his props, but we dont gotta take everything to its extreme.

[kg01]

The only reason he won was that other stars got injured.

Prove it.

You're entitled to your own opinion, but if he doesn't win another championship his legacy will be undercut. It's the same reason why historically no one will mention the Kawhi Raptors. These kinds of championships are only good for the fan base. Bucks fans should take pride in how their team played. They beat who's in front of them. But if you want to talk about legacy I and many other fans will distinguish between championships when major competition is injured and championships when major competition is healthy. If MJ went down in game 1 and the Jazz beat the Bulls that wouldn't make the Jazz better than the Bulls lol.

The Kawhi Raptors aren't "lesser" champions. They just didn't win again. Which, wasn't because of anything other than the fact that the team broke up. It doesn't besmirch their title at all.

And what is this, "these kinds of 'ships are only good for the fan base" stuff? Are folks only supposed to like it when "popular" teams win? What kind of defeatist thinking is that? Sorry, we're not all gonna just be (insert flavor of the month) fans because casual fans would like that more.

And on the Bulls/Jazz, this is sports. The results matter more than the opinions.

If the Jazz had beat the Bulls, they're the better team. That's how it works.

Do people want the old college football system where they just put the teams they like in title games regardless of actual results? How silly is that?