76ers back to fining Ben Simmons

[Nuntius]

This isn't about defending billionaires or the Sixers, it's about making sure someone doesn't use mental health as a ploy in bad faith, so that other athletes who struggle with mental health are actually taken seriously.

Yeah, sure. Let's pretend that athletes who struggle with mental health are taken seriously. Let's pretend that Royce White was never treated like **** by this league and this forum back in 12-13. Let's also pretend that no one has brought up DeRozan's and Love's mental health issues when they criticize them. Let's just pretend that all is well and rosy here and that there isn't a stigma against people suffering with mental health issues.

[Nuntius]

The NBPA works for the players. They are not neutral, the therapist must be an independent third party, not from NBPA, Sixers, or Ben Simmons.

Says who? Is it written anywhere in the CBA that the therapist must be an independent third party?

Yes, it is written in the CBA. If Simmons wants to contest the fines, it goes to an arbitrator, and a neutral medical opinion who will advise the arbitrator. The CBA reads,

"...the NBA and the Players
Association shall agree upon a neutral physician or (in the absence of such
agreement) jointly request that the President of the American College of
Orthopedic Surgeons (or such other similar organization as the NBA and
the Players Association agree may be most appropriate to the issues in
dispute) designate a physician who has no relationship with any party
covered by this Agreement who shall, for purposes of the dispute, serve as
an independent medical expert and consultant to the Grievance Arbitrator."

That's talking about a situation that has actually reached arbitration, though. This situation is not there yet. The fact that the NBPA has their own doctors (be them medical health professionals or mental health professionals) seems to indicate that this is a valid option for a player who doesn't want to use their team's own doctors for whatever reason.

[NRSV]

This is insane. If I had my druthers, his contract would be voided and he would sit out a couple years. Be that as it may, the NBA created this monster with the player centric CBAs.

I’m just glad it happened to a team that carries a little bit of clout. If this happened to the Timberwolves and nobody would give a ****. The league is on notice now and it’s time to fix this problem.

[xdrta+]

Says who? Is it written anywhere in the CBA that the therapist must be an independent third party?

Yes, it is written in the CBA. If Simmons wants to contest the fines, it goes to an arbitrator, and a neutral medical opinion who will advise the arbitrator. The CBA reads,

"...the NBA and the Players
Association shall agree upon a neutral physician or (in the absence of such
agreement) jointly request that the President of the American College of
Orthopedic Surgeons (or such other similar organization as the NBA and
the Players Association agree may be most appropriate to the issues in
dispute) designate a physician who has no relationship with any party
covered by this Agreement who shall, for purposes of the dispute, serve as
an independent medical expert and consultant to the Grievance Arbitrator."

That's talking about a situation that has actually reached arbitration, though. This situation is not there yet. The fact that the NBPA has their own doctors (be them medical health professionals or mental health professionals) seems to indicate that this is a valid option for a player who doesn't want to use their team's own doctors for whatever reason.

The fact that it hasn't reached arbitration means that all this is just meaningless talk back and forth. If he doesn't want his salary withheld, he has to take it to arbitration. Everything up to then is just posturing. If he wants the money he has to take it a step further.

[garrick]

- He’s under a long term contract.
- Refusing to undergo Sixers help which is legitimate and above board due to players protection and refusing to play equals fines.
- Not well, cool go see our doc, “But I don’t wanna I got my own people”. Okay where’s yours sick details?
- Umm....
- Cool you’ll get a fine for not coming to work without an established reason like every other nba player. Can’t get paid when you don’t play without a credited document/legal process.
- Teammates are fuming and are galvanized with a great start.
- As someone mentioned earlier it can go from being a spoilt rich kid to facing criminal activity (fraud) that’s serious.
- Ben’s and Ben’s camp have lost big time, it’s better to grow up and face reality sooner rather than later.
- Sixers are the mediators here but Ben doesn’t want to play ball, and all his way.... well sorry mate you bite the hand that feeds you don’t expect the hand to pick you back up in fact get ready for a slap in the face which is happening now.

After this debacle which NBA player is going to want to sign with Klutch sports and Rich Paul & get horrible career advice?

Paul seems willing to destroy Ben's career with bad advice just so he won't be the one to fold & look weak, his hardline tactics have worked each time but this time he doesn't hold all the cards.

[Nuntius]

Yes, it is written in the CBA. If Simmons wants to contest the fines, it goes to an arbitrator, and a neutral medical opinion who will advise the arbitrator. The CBA reads,

That's talking about a situation that has actually reached arbitration, though. This situation is not there yet. The fact that the NBPA has their own doctors (be them medical health professionals or mental health professionals) seems to indicate that this is a valid option for a player who doesn't want to use their team's own doctors for whatever reason.

The fact that it hasn't reached arbitration means that all this is just meaningless talk back and forth. If he doesn't want his salary withheld, he has to take it to arbitration. Everything up to then is just posturing. If he wants the money he has to take it a step further.

We'll see whether this has to go to arbitration and whether the Sixers will demand that Simmons sees a therapist not affiliated with the NBPA or not. This story seems far from over.

[DCasey91]

- He’s under a long term contract.
- Refusing to undergo Sixers help which is legitimate and above board due to players protection and refusing to play equals fines.
- Not well, cool go see our doc, “But I don’t wanna I got my own people”. Okay where’s yours sick details?
- Umm....
- Cool you’ll get a fine for not coming to work without an established reason like every other nba player. Can’t get paid when you don’t play without a credited document/legal process.
- Teammates are fuming and are galvanized with a great start.
- As someone mentioned earlier it can go from being a spoilt rich kid to facing criminal activity (fraud) that’s serious.
- Ben’s and Ben’s camp have lost big time, it’s better to grow up and face reality sooner rather than later.
- Sixers are the mediators here but Ben doesn’t want to play ball, and all his way.... well sorry mate you bite the hand that feeds you don’t expect the hand to pick you back up in fact get ready for a slap in the face which is happening now.

After this debacle which NBA player is going to want to sign with Klutch sports and Rich Paul & get horrible career advice?

Paul seems willing to destroy Ben's career with bad advice just so he won't be the one to fold & look weak, his hardline tactics have worked each time but this time he doesn't hold all the cards.

Seems to me like Paul is really one of LeGM’s puppets and as what I wouldn’t call it all legitimate and above board (no one that high is at 100% of the time but most are very very good/elite/best in the world at what they do).

He’s hasn’t been batting too well on player management as of late (Noel is another one which is still in legal process) But especially this screams of immaturity and incompetence.

I wouldn’t be surprised either if Ben throws the book at him, there’ll be some legal loophole somewhere especially when your client has a much higher standing.

People have agendas, so it won’t be the end of it for awhile/back and away stuff.

It’s poor business practice atm.

[C.Boshly]

This isn't about defending billionaires or the Sixers, it's about making sure someone doesn't use mental health as a ploy in bad faith, so that other athletes who struggle with mental health are actually taken seriously.

Yeah, sure. Let's pretend that athletes who struggle with mental health are taken seriously. Let's pretend that Royce White was never treated like **** by this league and this forum back in 12-13. Let's also pretend that no one has brought up DeRozan's and Love's mental health issues when they criticize them. Let's just pretend that all is well and rosy here and that there isn't a stigma against people suffering with mental health issues.

In fairness Royce White refused to fly which is a pretty big problem. He also had no NBA experience or reputation to lean on. I am sensitive to his mental health issues however there is a practical element to it. Why should a franchise have to deal with his baggage if they don’t want to?

[Nuntius]

This isn't about defending billionaires or the Sixers, it's about making sure someone doesn't use mental health as a ploy in bad faith, so that other athletes who struggle with mental health are actually taken seriously.

Yeah, sure. Let's pretend that athletes who struggle with mental health are taken seriously. Let's pretend that Royce White was never treated like **** by this league and this forum back in 12-13. Let's also pretend that no one has brought up DeRozan's and Love's mental health issues when they criticize them. Let's just pretend that all is well and rosy here and that there isn't a stigma against people suffering with mental health issues.

In fairness Royce White refused to fly which is a pretty big problem. He also had no NBA experience or reputation to lean on. I am sensitive to his mental health issues however there is a practical element to it. Why should a franchise have to deal with his baggage if they don’t want to?

He refused to fly for a very valid reason, though. It harmed his mental health. This was well-known before he was drafted. The Rockets still elected to draft him and then proceeded to not give a crap about these issues. If you don't want to deal with that "baggage", as you put it, then why do you draft the guy?

[shangrila]

That's a bunch of bull and you know it. Players get paid to provide services. What services is he providing ?

Right at this very second? I have no idea. Are they still selling merch featuring his name and likeness? Are they still using him in advertising materials? These players generate revenue for a team beyond what they do on the court.

As for your example, it's a bunch of bull and you know it. If the same guy couldn't build my garage because he'd been involved in a freak accident and lost both his hands...guess what? He still wouldn't be getting paid. Same as if he had a death in the family, or was suffering a mental health issue like you said, or his freaking car broke down. None of that matters because he's a contractor.

It is FUNDAMENTALLY DIFFERENT to being in a salary position. And it's the kind of asinine herp derp "example" I keep seeing that deserves to be called out.

This situation isn't anywhere near as black and white as you seem eager to paint it is. Hence, you don't know what you're talking about.

What Sixers fan is buying Simmons merch anymore? Nobody. So no they're not selling merch with his name.

Mind if I check your source on that?

Source: Your ass

Yep, checks out.

Players sign a CONTRACT. They are contractors. They sign a contract where they agree to provide services in exchange for an agreed upon amount of money. He's not honoring his contract. So the Sixers shouldn't either.

No, they're not. They are paid a wage per game played. There's a difference.

But carry on with your ignorance. I don't feel like continuing a debate with someone who's seemingly proud of their head being stuffed up their own ass.

[Marty McFly]

Having to meet with team physician is harming Simmons' mental health.

Don't see Sixers ever winning this one in arbitration if challenged. They cannot prove that Simmons is not suffering from mental health issues.

Of course, I do think Simmons / Rich Paul is faking this whole mental health episode.

he passed up that dunk and the **** show began. they're not faking it, Bruv.

[Dominator83]

Right at this very second? I have no idea. Are they still selling merch featuring his name and likeness? Are they still using him in advertising materials? These players generate revenue for a team beyond what they do on the court.

As for your example, it's a bunch of bull and you know it. If the same guy couldn't build my garage because he'd been involved in a freak accident and lost both his hands...guess what? He still wouldn't be getting paid. Same as if he had a death in the family, or was suffering a mental health issue like you said, or his freaking car broke down. None of that matters because he's a contractor.

It is FUNDAMENTALLY DIFFERENT to being in a salary position. And it's the kind of asinine herp derp "example" I keep seeing that deserves to be called out.

This situation isn't anywhere near as black and white as you seem eager to paint it is. Hence, you don't know what you're talking about.

What Sixers fan is buying Simmons merch anymore? Nobody. So no they're not selling merch with his name.

Mind if I check your source on that?

Source: Your ass

Yep, checks out.

Players sign a CONTRACT. They are contractors. They sign a contract where they agree to provide services in exchange for an agreed upon amount of money. He's not honoring his contract. So the Sixers shouldn't either.

No, they're not. They are paid a wage per game played. There's a difference.

But carry on with your ignorance. I don't feel like continuing a debate with someone who's seemingly proud of their head being stuffed up their own ass.

A little aggressive there bro! Name one reason why he should get paid when he's refusing to provide the services hes contractually obligated to ?

[Lunartic]

Reports of Dallas Mavericks owner Mark Cuban feverishly driving the streets of Philly looking for Ben Simmons.

I'll keep you guys updated

[payton2kemp]

Blazers should trade Dame for Simmons. He's really been stinking it up, and his defense sucks.

[jbk1234]

Two things can be equally true: (1) If Simmons wanted to get paid, he should've reported and given a professional effort. (2) Morey is likely further away from getting the return he wants for Simmons than he was this summer.

Like what are you telling your trade partners right now? Don't worry, he's not having real mental health issues, he's just faking it? How does that help your negotiating position?

[GreatWhiteStiff]

He has zero value. He’s not worth all this trouble. They should make an example out of him and void his contract.

No team will offer him a max contract. He’ll be lucky to get a one year prove it type of deal.

Do you not pay attention? This is provably wrong. Indiana offered positive value in a trade.

[John Murdoch]

How is this 17 pages?

[Tomjas]

As a Sixers fan, I have no idea why anyone is supporting their management here as they have zero credibility

This is a team who scapegoated Fultz after repeatedly misdiagnosing him and who basically ended Smith’s career after he nearly died

They don’t give a **** about Simmons well being or standing up to player entitlement

They only care about his trade value

[bigpimpatl]

The sixers are embarrassing themselves as an organization. Future players/agents will take notice of this episode and it won’t reflect well on the management. Quite simply, they are cutting off their nose to spite their face.

[TdotRap4Lyfe]

Trading him now gives into this behaviour.
It sets a precedent. I'd rather they wait it out to the trade deadline or the draft, losing a years pay should be enough for Ben to "want to" play.