Suns Just Another Team

[Gimli]

the Mavs shoot almost 6 more 3s a game compared to the Suns. the question is what happens when DALLAS isn't making threes.

Dallas has Doncic playing 1 vs 1 to the basket quite a lot of time. Suns have no one of that caliber. There's none that can stop Doncic going to the basket, as long as he has energy. They also have Brunson and Spencer, which if necessary can go to the basket, since teams will always have to watch out for Doncic. They can also run 3pg lineup, with DFS also always being in threat for making a cut.

even when the Suns were bad, the Mavs weren't beating them. And now against these Suns you think Doncic can somehow beat them by himself in a playoff situation despite having never been out of the first round. Good thinking. I'm not saying you have no chance but you are still quite overconfident let's say.

Mavs are not the same team they were. And suns had a lot of luck playing against the team which was missing porzingis in 2021 (imporant piece) or booker was hitting all very well defended shots. And hit a buzzer beater 3pointer, for the win. And this year they beat them in January and it was back to back. And one game before they they barely defeated the Raptors by 4, two games ago they beat Thunder by 2, after the Suns loss they defeated the Grizzlies by 13 and then they were obliterated by the GSW for 38... This wasn't their usual stretch of good games.

The reason why the Clippers beat them was because Kawhi kept stopping Mavs runs. The moment the Mavs went on 9-0 run, back comes Kawhi and hits a midrange jumper or bulldozes into a a layup and gets and1 or hits a three. Now this is something that the Suns don't have. There won't be any superhuman answering back, when Mavs go on a 9-0 run.

But the Suns are the better team, I'm not denying it. But their underestimaing and overconfidence will be their downfall. The clippers could have won 4-1 or 4-2, but they didn't their homework. Will the suns do it?

[Wallace_Wallace]

Spoiler:

"What happens when the Suns go cold from 3..." I mean... how lazy can you get?

The Suns are 26th in the league in 3 point attempts, but are 4th best in 3 point FG% Their offense is not reliant on 3s.

Just read that dude's posts. 7 posts, and almost all of them are about how Dallas will "surprise" Phoenix, with analysis that makes zero sense.

Yeah, I've watched the game against Philly...just passing the ball all the time, making a bunch of threes and Booker making a layup or too. That's not getting to the basket gameplan. I guess suns should know what it means to have a player going at the basket all the time or when necessary, after all, the Bucks made a back door sweep to them, with Giannis making the most damage from attacking the paint, but I guess it just went past them. Or maybe they're just too sensitive.

Just deal with, CP3 is a midrange jump shooter, Booker couldn't do anything in the past few years before the bubble, and for Ayton some suns fans people were even questioning if he isn't too expensive to extend. Ayton is a finesse player, not somehow who can bang down low.

The suns make a bunch of layups due to their good offense of passing all the time. But since I've listed all the previous champions, you need someone who can go to the basket 1 vs 1 in the crunch time. Suns have no one like that. Just like the Hawks didn't in their great season, as far as I can remember.

Suns win majority of their games by just playing very good offense and very good defense for 48 minutes, without making any mistakes. That led you to 2-0 lead against the Bucks, until they figured you out and then you lost 4-0. And which of the great teams did you even beat? None. Grizzlies 4-1 was easy, Jazz 4-2 should be 4-1, Clippers vs Suns should be 4-1 or 4-0. And they you faced the only partially great team and you got backdoor swept. And now you're crying why you're labeled you a good team.

Booker still hasn't proven that his some great player, he's reputation from few years ago that he can't get phx anywhere is still very much relevant.

Yawn....

I'd offer up a rebuttal to the ridiculousness you just posted, but this covers it well enough and saves both time and energy:

I will give it a shot.
https://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore/_/gameId/401360937

Three pointer wise it was 10 of 36 for the Sixers 13 of 27 for the Suns. Sounds to me, the Sixers tried to spam three and the Suns ended up making more threes while attempting less.

If you did watch the game, the Sixers pulled within 1 point with 5 minutes left. And then the Suns went on a 13-2 run to close the game. Embiid, a player who can go to the basket all the time or when necessary, scored a jump hook (that was the two points). James Harden laid an egg shooting 2-11 (8-8 FT saved his point total). It's not a coincidence that both Harden and Embiid could not score against the Suns down the stretch. Their execution draws similarity to the 2014 Spurs, it is very very difficult to out execute this team. Last year, they still have the doubt of Ayton getting in foul trouble, but McGee and Biyombo eliminates that doubt over Saric and Kaminsky. You really need Giannis to turn into a Greek God again.

[Daredevilish]

Dallas has Doncic playing 1 vs 1 to the basket quite a lot of time. Suns have no one of that caliber. There's none that can stop Doncic going to the basket, as long as he has energy. They also have Brunson and Spencer, which if necessary can go to the basket, since teams will always have to watch out for Doncic. They can also run 3pg lineup, with DFS also always being in threat for making a cut.

even when the Suns were bad, the Mavs weren't beating them. And now against these Suns you think Doncic can somehow beat them by himself in a playoff situation despite having never been out of the first round. Good thinking. I'm not saying you have no chance but you are still quite overconfident let's say.

Mavs are not the same team they were. And suns had a lot of luck playing against the team which was missing porzingis in 2021 (imporant piece) or booker was hitting all very well defended shots. And hit a buzzer beater 3pointer, for the win. And this year they beat them in January and it was back to back. And one game before they they barely defeated the Raptors by 4, two games ago they beat Thunder by 2, after the Suns loss they defeated the Grizzlies by 13 and then they were obliterated by the GSW for 38... This wasn't their usual stretch of good games.

The reason why the Clippers beat them was because Kawhi kept stopping Mavs runs. The moment the Mavs went on 9-0 run, back comes Kawhi and hits a midrange jumper or bulldozes into a a layup and gets and1 or hits a three. Now this is something that the Suns don't have. There won't be any superhuman answering back, when Mavs go on a 9-0 run.

But the Suns are the better team, I'm not denying it. But their underestimaing and overconfidence will be their downfall. The clippers could have won 4-1 or 4-2, but they didn't their homework. Will the suns do it?

Those pesky Suns, they just got lucky by making their shots. If they didn't make their shots they would have lost.

[Gimli]

He is a perennial all star player that just turned 25, made the finals in his first playoff appearance, is the leading scorer on the team with the best record in the nba. You dont think multiple time all stars that arent even in their prime yet are good players? Booker is literally in the running for best SG in the league.

Not good enough. Find me a team that had "lower rated" player in the last 20 years... Maybe the SAS, but their team was one of a kind. And it also matters, because Booker is a skinny SG. Not the best "setup". I mean he's competing with 37 year old CP3 for the best player in the team... Look, in the first few seasons he didn't do anything with the Suns... This doesn't just go away, just because he's got a great team now.

I can buy the argument that he is not a good enough #1 for a championship team. But to say he isnt a good player?

Booker is a good player... He's just not (yet) good enough to rely on him to win the championship.

[SF_Warriors]

Not good enough. Find me a team that had "lower rated" player in the last 20 years... Maybe the SAS, but their team was one of a kind. And it also matters, because Booker is a skinny SG. Not the best "setup". I mean he's competing with 37 year old CP3 for the best player in the team... Look, in the first few seasons he didn't do anything with the Suns... This doesn't just go away, just because he's got a great team now.

I can buy the argument that he is not a good enough #1 for a championship team. But to say he isnt a good player?

Booker is a good player... He's just not (yet) good enough to rely on him to win the championship.

Will be interesting to see his performance this year in the playoffs. He is just beginning to enter his prime and has a great team around him. CP3 is not going to be able to do this forever though, so it will be interesting to see how the suns fare as CP3 continues to age.

[spanishninja]

Dallas has Doncic playing 1 vs 1 to the basket quite a lot of time. Suns have no one of that caliber. There's none that can stop Doncic going to the basket, as long as he has energy. They also have Brunson and Spencer, which if necessary can go to the basket, since teams will always have to watch out for Doncic. They can also run 3pg lineup, with DFS also always being in threat for making a cut.

even when the Suns were bad, the Mavs weren't beating them. And now against these Suns you think Doncic can somehow beat them by himself in a playoff situation despite having never been out of the first round. Good thinking. I'm not saying you have no chance but you are still quite overconfident let's say.

Mavs are not the same team they were. And suns had a lot of luck playing against the team which was missing porzingis in 2021 (imporant piece) or booker was hitting all very well defended shots. And hit a buzzer beater 3pointer, for the win. And this year they beat them in January and it was back to back. And one game before they they barely defeated the Raptors by 4, two games ago they beat Thunder by 2, after the Suns loss they defeated the Grizzlies by 13 and then they were obliterated by the GSW for 38... This wasn't their usual stretch of good games.

The reason why the Clippers beat them was because Kawhi kept stopping Mavs runs. The moment the Mavs went on 9-0 run, back comes Kawhi and hits a midrange jumper or bulldozes into a a layup and gets and1 or hits a three. Now this is something that the Suns don't have. There won't be any superhuman answering back, when Mavs go on a 9-0 run.

But the Suns are the better team, I'm not denying it. But their underestimaing and overconfidence will be their downfall. The clippers could have won 4-1 or 4-2, but they didn't their homework. Will the suns do it?

nobody ever said the Suns are overconfident. where are you getting this from?

Despite your terrible takes, I am actually interested to see how the Mavs play now after the deadline. You are right that it is a different team and probably more clutch than the last time the two teams met. Monty will be preparing so don't worry about not doing homework.

[spanishninja]

Not good enough. Find me a team that had "lower rated" player in the last 20 years... Maybe the SAS, but their team was one of a kind. And it also matters, because Booker is a skinny SG. Not the best "setup". I mean he's competing with 37 year old CP3 for the best player in the team... Look, in the first few seasons he didn't do anything with the Suns... This doesn't just go away, just because he's got a great team now.

I can buy the argument that he is not a good enough #1 for a championship team. But to say he isnt a good player?

Booker is a good player... He's just not (yet) good enough to rely on him to win the championship.

which is why we're not relying on just him.

[Gimli]

Look, I'm not gonna defend this anymore. I would need substantial evidence to show you what I mean. It comes down to the usual argument. Player A has very good TS%, surely he is better. Player B leads the league in RAPTOR or I don't know which statistic, surely he is better.

There are way too many variables and stuff to look at, no single statistic will show anything. At the end of the day, it's not possible to even explaing pretty much anything, you need really a lot of data and I don't know 100+ hours to show one specific thing which you can see, but now have to show with numbers.

You can even use mulitple statistics, it won't change anything. And once you get to 5+ stats, you lose any human perception what it actually all means, not possible to have intuition anymore, and then any argument is just screwed.

All I'm saying is, when the Mavs went on their runs in the playoffs, which would usually destroy opponent's morale, Kawhi kept them in the game by immediately answering back. KD did an amazing job by himself against the Bucks. Curry can hit any ridicoulus three. Lakers had Lebron. Spurs had Duncan and pop and ginobili.

You can show me any stat you want, how booker only gets 9ppg from threes (while completely ignoring how many points he scores in transition from the layups, this doesn't count at all, playoffs are the halfcourt battle, even if someone will now come and say now it's not, there are only 1-2 possesions difference, the playoffs can't be a halfcourt battle). You can also show whatever you want from CP3, I already know, when it's clutch time he's gonna try to hit tough jumpers. He did this his entire career and where did that get him.

We will see come playoff time, how things stand. No point in arguing smth, which needs 100+ hours to show. It's just a written suggestion, maybe someone will agree, maybe someone won't.

You can also say Doncic whines too much, I agree, you can say Mavs rely way too much on 3point shooting, I agree, you can say Doncic is ****, because he doesn't want to play off ball, I agree... You can say anything you want about the Mavs. It's just my opinion that the Suns don't have anyone to attack the rim in the clutch time and in the previous year all the champions had someone...

[SkyBill40]

Look, I'm not gonna defend this anymore. I would need substantial evidence to show you what I mean. It comes down to the usual argument. Player A has very good TS%, surely he is better. Player B leads the league in RAPTOR or I don't know which statistic, surely he is better.

...

[Gimli]

PS: an example of why stats showing isn't the best.
I'm not sure how many points booker scores from 3 or from 2 or from three point line. But the point is:

Lebron's main strenght is attacking the basket and passing, Kawhi is lethal with midranges and bulldozing and using his hands to separate space. Embiid can get a foul at any time, as long as he get's the ball in the right place. That's why also Embiid isn't too reliable.
Giannis is incredibly difficult to stop when going full steam, unless you have the Miami wall. Curry doesn't even have a comparision, the guy is out of this world. Jokic can play bullyball against anyone and his touch is just about unparalleled and he's also godly playmaker. Durant can shot over anyone and has also shown that he can play with pressure and he's still so damn tall he can easily pass if double teamed. Derozan can get a midrange jumper anytime he wants (but fails to deliver under pressure). He's also muscular, savy and tall enough to cause trouble in the paint.

What does Booker have? Is he great at attacking the rim? No. Is he great midrange player? No. Can he dribble the ball really well? No. He's most famous for hitting jumpshots, hence Booker is just a jumpshooter. No back to back game, no fancy dribbles, no great playmaking. Is also undersized SG.

You can call me an idiot for saying Booker get's the most points from threes, but you failed to realize that that was not what I was even arguing.

And yes, the Suns are a better team than the Mavs. If they execute the same way they did in the regular season, they win the championship. But imo they won't. The pressure will be too high.

[spanishninja]

Look, I'm not gonna defend this anymore. I would need substantial evidence to show you what I mean. It comes down to the usual argument. Player A has very good TS%, surely he is better. Player B leads the league in RAPTOR or I don't know which statistic, surely he is better.

There are way too many variables and stuff to look at, no single statistic will show anything. At the end of the day, it's not possible to even explaing pretty much anything, you need really a lot of data and I don't know 100+ hours to show one specific thing which you can see, but now have to show with numbers.

You can even use mulitple statistics, it won't change anything. And once you get to 5+ stats, you lose any human perception what it actually all means, not possible to have intuition anymore, and then any argument is just screwed.

All I'm saying is, when the Mavs went on their runs in the playoffs, which would usually destroy opponent's morale, Kawhi kept them in the game by immediately answering back. KD did an amazing job by himself against the Bucks. Curry can hit any ridicoulus three. Lakers had Lebron. Spurs had Duncan and pop and ginobili.

You can show me any stat you want, how booker only gets 9ppg from threes (while completely ignoring how many points he scores in transition from the layups, this doesn't count at all, playoffs are the halfcourt battle, even if someone will now come and say now it's not, there are only 1-2 possesions difference, the playoffs can't be a halfcourt battle). You can also show whatever you want from CP3, I already know, when it's clutch time he's gonna try to hit tough jumpers. He did this his entire career and where did that get him.

We will see come playoff time, how things stand. No point in arguing smth, which needs 100+ hours to show. It's just a written suggestion, maybe someone will agree, maybe someone won't.

You can also say Doncic whines too much, I agree, you can say Mavs rely way too much on 3point shooting, I agree, you can say Doncic is ****, because he doesn't want to play off ball, I agree... You can say anything you want about the Mavs. It's just my opinion that the Suns don't have anyone to attack the rim in the clutch time and in the previous year all the champions had someone...

the Suns are only 8th in the league in transition points, while being 3rd in the league in points overall. This means we can execute in the halfcourt well too. And I am confused about what you're saying in regard to Booker. first you said he shoots a lot of 3s, then you say he gets a lot of transition baskets, what is it?

anyway, I just think you're making too much of a topic out of this. why can't you just focus on how good your team is instead of accusing opposing teams of being fake? Suns fans don't feel the need to cut down opposing teams or players in order to prop up their own, and if you think Luka and the Mavs are really that good, you shouldn't either. go into the playoffs with the mindset that you will be beating some very good teams, and even some better teams, and not just some fraud teams with good records, and you won't have to worry about these arguments.

[spanishninja]

PS: an example of why stats showing isn't the best.
I'm not sure how many points booker scores from 3 or from 2 or from three point line. But the point is:

Lebron's main strenght is attacking the basket and passing, Kawhi is lethal with midranges and bulldozing and using his hands to separate space. Embiid can get a foul at any time, as long as he get's the ball in the right place. That's why also Embiid isn't too reliable.
Giannis is incredibly difficult to stop when going full steam, unless you have the Miami wall. Curry doesn't even have a comparision, the guy is out of this world. Jokic can play bullyball against anyone and his touch is just about unparalleled and he's also godly playmaker. Durant can shot over anyone and has also shown that he can play with pressure and he's still so damn tall he can easily pass if double teamed. Derozan can get a midrange jumper anytime he wants (but fails to deliver under pressure). He's also muscular, savy and tall enough to cause trouble in the paint.

What does Booker have? Is he great at attacking the rim? No. Is he great midrange player? No. Can he dribble the ball really well? No. He's most famous for hitting jumpshots, hence Booker is just a jumpshooter. No back to back game, no fancy dribbles, no great playmaking. Is also undersized SG.

You can call me an idiot for saying Booker get's the most points from threes, but you failed to realize that that was not what I was even arguing.

And yes, the Suns are a better team than the Mavs. If they execute the same way they did in the regular season, they win the championship. But imo they won't. The pressure will be too high.

I think you need to watch these videos to understand how wrong you are about Booker. In fact you shouldn't even need a video to tell you that you're wrong about Booker not being a great midrange player. You might be the first person to say this, as most people label Booker as a midrange player who doesn't shoot a lot of 3s, and that's why he's not "efficient" in the eyes of TS%. It even talks about his post game, which you say he lacks.

Watch on YouTube

Breaking down shooting a little more, because you said you don't want see those numbers, Doncic is better closer to the basket, but Booker is better everywhere else.

Booker shooting by range:
0-3: 68.5%
3-10ft: 46.6%
10-16ft: 47.6%
16-3p: 47.8%
3p: 37.8%
TS% 57.5%

Doncic shooting by range:
0-3: 76.8%
3-10ft: 49.7%
10-16ft: 44.0%
16-3p: 36.8%
3p: 35.0%
TS: 56.4%

So I still don't know what you're talking about. you were asking what Booker's strength is. It's versatility. If you know what a 3-level scorer is, that's him.

[Gimli]

Look, I'm not gonna defend this anymore. I would need substantial evidence to show you what I mean. It comes down to the usual argument. Player A has very good TS%, surely he is better. Player B leads the league in RAPTOR or I don't know which statistic, surely he is better.

There are way too many variables and stuff to look at, no single statistic will show anything. At the end of the day, it's not possible to even explaing pretty much anything, you need really a lot of data and I don't know 100+ hours to show one specific thing which you can see, but now have to show with numbers.

You can even use mulitple statistics, it won't change anything. And once you get to 5+ stats, you lose any human perception what it actually all means, not possible to have intuition anymore, and then any argument is just screwed.

All I'm saying is, when the Mavs went on their runs in the playoffs, which would usually destroy opponent's morale, Kawhi kept them in the game by immediately answering back. KD did an amazing job by himself against the Bucks. Curry can hit any ridicoulus three. Lakers had Lebron. Spurs had Duncan and pop and ginobili.

You can show me any stat you want, how booker only gets 9ppg from threes (while completely ignoring how many points he scores in transition from the layups, this doesn't count at all, playoffs are the halfcourt battle, even if someone will now come and say now it's not, there are only 1-2 possesions difference, the playoffs can't be a halfcourt battle). You can also show whatever you want from CP3, I already know, when it's clutch time he's gonna try to hit tough jumpers. He did this his entire career and where did that get him.

We will see come playoff time, how things stand. No point in arguing smth, which needs 100+ hours to show. It's just a written suggestion, maybe someone will agree, maybe someone won't.

You can also say Doncic whines too much, I agree, you can say Mavs rely way too much on 3point shooting, I agree, you can say Doncic is ****, because he doesn't want to play off ball, I agree... You can say anything you want about the Mavs. It's just my opinion that the Suns don't have anyone to attack the rim in the clutch time and in the previous year all the champions had someone...

the Suns are only 8th in the league in transition points, while being 3rd in the league in points overall. This means we can execute in the halfcourt well too. And I am confused about what you're saying in regard to Booker. first you said he shoots a lot of 3s, then you say he gets a lot of transition baskets, what is it?

anyway, I just think you're making too much of a topic out of this. why can't you just focus on how good your team is instead of accusing opposing teams of being fake? Suns fans don't feel the need to cut down opposing teams or players in order to prop up their own, and if you think Luka and the Mavs are really that good, you shouldn't either. go into the playoffs with the mindset that you will be beating some very good teams, and even some better teams, and not just some fraud teams with good records, and you won't have to worry about these arguments.

Let's not try to deflect here...

"This is the post of someone who hasn't watched the Suns in the past 2 years. Just absolutely lazy analysis that is just flat out wrong about the Suns offense."

"yeah lol. simple google can tell you that Phoenix is #4 in PITP"

"Agreed. That post is chock full of willful ignorance. Clearly the poster isn't paying attention to warrant some kind of exhaustive overview, even as flawed as this happens to b"

And then a bunch of memes, that are not even funny. I'm not this sensitive about the mavs. Anyway, that's enough for me. Forum approach is not really for me, it's just difficult to explain anything. And they you have a bunch of ppl immeditately attacking you, the moment you say their team might not be good enough. I mean why is this thread even 18 pages long.. It's the suns fans feeling threatened. And then saying "why can't you just focus on the topic...", to top it all...

[Gimli]

Opps, I misread that. Sorry. I thought you were attacking me about attacking the suns fan. MY BAD.

[SkyBill40]

Breaking down shooting a little more, because you said you don't want see those numbers, Doncic is better closer to the basket, but Booker is better everywhere else.

Booker shooting by range:
0-3: 68.5%
3-10ft: 46.6%
10-16ft: 47.6%
16-3p: 47.8%
3p: 37.8%
TS% 57.5%

Doncic shooting by range:
0-3: 76.8%
3-10ft: 49.7%
10-16ft: 44.0%
16-3p: 36.8%
3p: 35.0%
TS: 56.4%

So I still don't know what you're talking about.

The burden of proof was his to supply, but it is appreciated that you did the work for him. As we have seen, quite clearly and repeatedly, he hasn't any real idea as to what he's talking about. The stats and metrics don't fit his narrative whatsoever, yet he repeatedly puts forth anecdote as fact as if that's somehow going to make it work.

We all know better. No matter what you supply, he's still not going to see it for what it is: Accurate representation that refutes his assertion.

The proof is in the pudding and Booker has been spooning it up all season.

[spanishninja]

Look, I'm not gonna defend this anymore. I would need substantial evidence to show you what I mean. It comes down to the usual argument. Player A has very good TS%, surely he is better. Player B leads the league in RAPTOR or I don't know which statistic, surely he is better.

There are way too many variables and stuff to look at, no single statistic will show anything. At the end of the day, it's not possible to even explaing pretty much anything, you need really a lot of data and I don't know 100+ hours to show one specific thing which you can see, but now have to show with numbers.

You can even use mulitple statistics, it won't change anything. And once you get to 5+ stats, you lose any human perception what it actually all means, not possible to have intuition anymore, and then any argument is just screwed.

All I'm saying is, when the Mavs went on their runs in the playoffs, which would usually destroy opponent's morale, Kawhi kept them in the game by immediately answering back. KD did an amazing job by himself against the Bucks. Curry can hit any ridicoulus three. Lakers had Lebron. Spurs had Duncan and pop and ginobili.

You can show me any stat you want, how booker only gets 9ppg from threes (while completely ignoring how many points he scores in transition from the layups, this doesn't count at all, playoffs are the halfcourt battle, even if someone will now come and say now it's not, there are only 1-2 possesions difference, the playoffs can't be a halfcourt battle). You can also show whatever you want from CP3, I already know, when it's clutch time he's gonna try to hit tough jumpers. He did this his entire career and where did that get him.

We will see come playoff time, how things stand. No point in arguing smth, which needs 100+ hours to show. It's just a written suggestion, maybe someone will agree, maybe someone won't.

You can also say Doncic whines too much, I agree, you can say Mavs rely way too much on 3point shooting, I agree, you can say Doncic is ****, because he doesn't want to play off ball, I agree... You can say anything you want about the Mavs. It's just my opinion that the Suns don't have anyone to attack the rim in the clutch time and in the previous year all the champions had someone...

the Suns are only 8th in the league in transition points, while being 3rd in the league in points overall. This means we can execute in the halfcourt well too. And I am confused about what you're saying in regard to Booker. first you said he shoots a lot of 3s, then you say he gets a lot of transition baskets, what is it?

anyway, I just think you're making too much of a topic out of this. why can't you just focus on how good your team is instead of accusing opposing teams of being fake? Suns fans don't feel the need to cut down opposing teams or players in order to prop up their own, and if you think Luka and the Mavs are really that good, you shouldn't either. go into the playoffs with the mindset that you will be beating some very good teams, and even some better teams, and not just some fraud teams with good records, and you won't have to worry about these arguments.

Let's not try to deflect here...

"This is the post of someone who hasn't watched the Suns in the past 2 years. Just absolutely lazy analysis that is just flat out wrong about the Suns offense."

"yeah lol. simple google can tell you that Phoenix is #4 in PITP"

"Agreed. That post is chock full of willful ignorance. Clearly the poster isn't paying attention to warrant some kind of exhaustive overview, even as flawed as this happens to b"

And then a bunch of memes, that are not even funny. I'm not this sensitive about the mavs. Anyway, that's enough for me. Forum approach is not really for me, it's just difficult to explain anything. And they you have a bunch of ppl immeditately attacking you, the moment you say their team might not be good enough. I mean why is this thread even 18 pages long.. It's the suns fans feeling threatened. And then saying "why can't you just focus on the topic...", to top it all...

reread my post. we don't feel threatened, but think it's funny that every other fanbase feels the need to pretend the Suns are worse than they are.

[Daredevilish]

I lost it at the point where DeMar DeRozan is apparently tall enough to be a problem, but Booker is “undersized” despite being only 2 centimeters shorter than DeMar.

[SkyBill40]

Let's not try to deflect here...

"This is the post of someone who hasn't watched the Suns in the past 2 years. Just absolutely lazy analysis that is just flat out wrong about the Suns offense."

"yeah lol. simple google can tell you that Phoenix is #4 in PITP"

"Agreed. That post is chock full of willful ignorance. Clearly the poster isn't paying attention to warrant some kind of exhaustive overview, even as flawed as this happens to b"

And then a bunch of memes, that are not even funny. I'm not this sensitive about the mavs. Anyway, that's enough for me. Forum approach is not really for me, it's just difficult to explain anything. And they you have a bunch of ppl immeditately attacking you, the moment you say their team might not be good enough. I mean why is this thread even 18 pages long.. It's the suns fans feeling threatened. And then saying "why can't you just focus on the topic...", to top it all...

The point here has been clear: You've chosen to ignore the facts for what they are and provided literally NO data to support your claims. That's YOUR job and it belongs to no one else. You've repeatedly passed opinion as fact and that's pretty absurd.

The memes weren't meant to be funny. They were to show that your diatribe is tired and has no factual basis. You could have and should have stopped a long time ago, yet found it compelling enough to keep pounding on about it ad nauseum. I'll give you this: You've made some attempts to defend your positions, so there's something to that. You just need to provide tangible data to support your positions rather than anecdote. That's how logic works.

The purpose of Real GM is discussion. Not all of it is going to be balanced, objective, or favorable. It does have a strong tendency to go awry and that's what's happened here to some degree. It has nothing whatsoever to do with Suns fans feeling threatened. It would be the exact same if you created another forum thread and inserted any other top tier team.

If you feel I've slighted you, I apologize. I'll stop there.

[Gimli]

PS: an example of why stats showing isn't the best.
I'm not sure how many points booker scores from 3 or from 2 or from three point line. But the point is:

Lebron's main strenght is attacking the basket and passing, Kawhi is lethal with midranges and bulldozing and using his hands to separate space. Embiid can get a foul at any time, as long as he get's the ball in the right place. That's why also Embiid isn't too reliable.
Giannis is incredibly difficult to stop when going full steam, unless you have the Miami wall. Curry doesn't even have a comparision, the guy is out of this world. Jokic can play bullyball against anyone and his touch is just about unparalleled and he's also godly playmaker. Durant can shot over anyone and has also shown that he can play with pressure and he's still so damn tall he can easily pass if double teamed. Derozan can get a midrange jumper anytime he wants (but fails to deliver under pressure). He's also muscular, savy and tall enough to cause trouble in the paint.

What does Booker have? Is he great at attacking the rim? No. Is he great midrange player? No. Can he dribble the ball really well? No. He's most famous for hitting jumpshots, hence Booker is just a jumpshooter. No back to back game, no fancy dribbles, no great playmaking. Is also undersized SG.

You can call me an idiot for saying Booker get's the most points from threes, but you failed to realize that that was not what I was even arguing.

And yes, the Suns are a better team than the Mavs. If they execute the same way they did in the regular season, they win the championship. But imo they won't. The pressure will be too high.

I think you need to watch these videos to understand how wrong you are about Booker. In fact you shouldn't even need a video to tell you that you're wrong about Booker not being a great midrange player. You might be the first person to say this, as most people label Booker as a midrange player who doesn't shoot a lot of 3s, and that's why he's not "efficient" in the eyes of TS%. It even talks about his post game, which you say he lacks.

Watch on YouTube

Breaking down shooting a little more, because you said you don't want see those numbers, Doncic is better closer to the basket, but Booker is better everywhere else.

Booker shooting by range:
0-3: 68.5%
3-10ft: 46.6%
10-16ft: 47.6%
16-3p: 47.8%
3p: 37.8%
TS% 57.5%

Doncic shooting by range:
0-3: 76.8%
3-10ft: 49.7%
10-16ft: 44.0%
16-3p: 36.8%
3p: 35.0%
TS: 56.4%

So I still don't know what you're talking about. you were asking what Booker's strength is. It's versatility. If you know what a 3-level scorer is, that's him.

I've watched this entire video. I'm not impressed. Look, I guess the difference between your point of view and mine is the basis point. I watch Luka play every day, I also have in my brain all the moves Kawhi used, I also like to watch Jokic play, Khris Middleton and Durant, Lebron, Kyrie, Derozan...

To me, in this video, Booker is just shooting over people majority of time, though he does create enough space. There weren't really a lot of instances of him playing with his back.

What I'm gonna say now will be blasphemous, but to me, watching Booker do precisely what he's doing in these videos is a disaster waiting to happen. Undersized SG shooting over taller people as his main weapon. That's precisely what I'm talking about what happens when his shots aren't falling. What would happen if Booker faced the Miami wall that Giannis did? The moment he would start his dance relatively close to the basket, there would come help defense trying to steal the ball. Or some taller player, like Adebayo would try to block his shot from his side. Middleton's shot won't be affected as much since he's much taller and more muscular. CP3 creates way more space than Booker does. I'm sorry, but to me, this approach will not win you a chamionship. Threes generate more points, layups are easier to make, free throws are well free, but skinny, undersized SG shooting midrange jumpers while dancing in front of the defender will not win you a chamionship (unless you really really have great support, which he actually does have).

And since you're comparing with Luka here... It's also one reason why stats don't work. Luka is maximum threat, not just a triple threat or whatever threat. When he starts his "dance", he can bully you to the rim, he can blow by you to the rim, he can make pump fakes and get to the free throw line or just manipulate you into making a foul, he can pass the ball to the eventually open player on the 3 point line, he has a floater, he can pass a lob to Powell or just a bounce pass, he has great first step, he can't be too bothered with tall centers in the paint... Doncic has so many moves to beat you with, he's just deadly. When a person is defending Doncic, he has to be aware of all of the possibilities of what Doncic might do. Only Jokic is comparable to him in the middle game.

And well that's one of the reasons that stats don't work. You can show his %, that's a minuscule part of the whole story. Just like TS% is, when people try to compare players.

[Gimli]

There is no need to show the evidence, where it would take 100+ hours to show the evidence.

If you say player A is better than player B becuase of TS%, that's not any evidence. If you show someone has better +-, that's also not any evidence. You can find me 10 stats, and it still wouldn't be any evidence. Unless you compare a superstar to a bench warmer.

If you want to compare Giannis with Jokic, which a lot of people wish to do, I would like to inform you that there absolutely isn't nearly enough data (in the comments) to show who is a better play. You can just forget about any TS%, and net rating and I don't know what. This is too simple and doesn't show reality. Unless you have loads of time, you can't show who is really better. That's why a simple post saying IN MY OPINION I don't think the suns have enough parameter attacking in the clutch time is completely enough.

I didn't have any burden of proof or any fancy talk to show. Maybe someone will agree, maybe they won't. It's just an interesting thing, that I've noticed today. Like minded people will maybe agree, opposite minded surely won't.