Jerry West pretty much destroys JJ Redick

[dhsilv2]

It wasn't guards league though. Mikan dominated the league, not Wazner or Davies.

Reddick had 50+ years of additional science in health, nutrition, basketball, etc to build on! And the game was always a guards game, when guards were good enough. There just weren't good guards then.

So you think Redick would dominate because he's healthier than 1950s players?

The game was always a bigman game, still is.

Defense was a big man's game. Offense has always been best when run through guards.

[70sFan]

Reddick had 50+ years of additional science in health, nutrition, basketball, etc to build on! And the game was always a guards game, when guards were good enough. There just weren't good guards then.

So you think Redick would dominate because he's healthier than 1950s players?

The game was always a bigman game, still is.

Defense was a big man's game. Offense has always been best when run through guards.

And...?

[dhsilv2]

So you think Redick would dominate because he's healthier than 1950s players?

The game was always a bigman game, still is.

Defense was a big man's game. Offense has always been best when run through guards.

And...?

The whole running offenses through the post was always dumb.

[70sFan]

Defense was a big man's game. Offense has always been best when run through guards.

And...?

The whole running offenses through the post was always dumb.

It doesn't change anything I said. Bigs has been dominating the league since its existance.

[dhsilv2]

And...?

The whole running offenses through the post was always dumb.

It doesn't change anything I said. Bigs has been dominating the league since its existance.

Some have....we have guards like Curry Jordan...

[70sFan]

The whole running offenses through the post was always dumb.

It doesn't change anything I said. Bigs has been dominating the league since its existance.

Some have....we have guards like Curry Jordan...

Sure, we have some outliers. Redick isn't one of them, nor he would it any era.

[dhsilv2]

It doesn't change anything I said. Bigs has been dominating the league since its existance.

Some have....we have guards like Curry Jordan...

Sure, we have some outliers. Redick isn't one of them, nor he would it any era.

I never said he'd be better than Mikan. he'd still be a dominate offensive player, likely the best in the league at the start of the 50's by a margin.

[70sFan]

Some have....we have guards like Curry Jordan...

Sure, we have some outliers. Redick isn't one of them, nor he would it any era.

I never said he'd be better than Mikan. he'd still be a dominate offensive player, likely the best in the league at the start of the 50's by a margin.

Don't see why he'd be better than Paul Arizin for example. I don't see the point of stretching this discussion to infinity, let's agree to disagree

[hoosierdaddy34]

I mean look at this. What are we even talking about here? The game was so slow and unathletic. These guys have completely loose handles…lucky that no one was really any good at defense. They got to the rim because the defense was so slow to react and help. No one ever faced a trap. Rarely did anyone even got double teamed. Players got a ridiculous amount of time to get their slow ass jumpers off. This is what people are trying to defend in here? Why? It was terrible basketball.

Watch on YouTube

Watch full games instead of slowed down "highlights" if you want to see help defense, doubles and traps. Learn the rules before talking ridiculous things about ball-handling.

We’ve all seen full games on ESPN or NBA TV classic. It’s 2022…who hasn’t? Who gives a crap about the rules if 90% of these dudes are walking stiffs? I can look at the skill and athleticism and easily see this was a substandard era compared to today, the 80s, the 90s etc. Hell the level of athleticism and skill went up substantially in the 70s from this basketball. Take off the wine goggles about the game 60 years ago.

[CIN-C-STAR]

I mean look at this. What are we even talking about here? The game was so slow and unathletic. These guys have completely loose handles…lucky that no one was really any good at defense. They got to the rim because the defense was so slow to react and help. No one ever faced a trap. Rarely did anyone even got double teamed. Players got a ridiculous amount of time to get their slow ass jumpers off. This is what people are trying to defend in here? Why? It was terrible basketball.

Watch on YouTube

Watch full games instead of slowed down "highlights" if you want to see help defense, doubles and traps. Learn the rules before talking ridiculous things about ball-handling.

We’ve all seen full games on ESPN or NBA TV classic. It’s 2022…who hasn’t? Who gives a crap about the rules if 90% of these dudes are walking stiffs? I can look at the skill and athleticism and easily see this was a substandard era compared to today, the 80s, the 90s etc. Hell the level of athleticism and skill went up substantially in the 70s from this basketball. Take off the wine goggles about the game 60 years ago.

The 70s ushered in more rule changes than any changes regarding skill and athelticism tbh.
I can't imagine watching highlights of Wilt and Oscar Robertson and coming away thinking they were "slow and unathletic" actually. I don't see that at all in their games.
And further to the point, the game wasn't slow at all back then. In fact, it was played at a much faster pace than future iterations of the sport, so you're just flat out wrong about that.

[PizzaSteve]

Watch full games instead of slowed down "highlights" if you want to see help defense, doubles and traps. Learn the rules before talking ridiculous things about ball-handling.

We’ve all seen full games on ESPN or NBA TV classic. It’s 2022…who hasn’t? Who gives a crap about the rules if 90% of these dudes are walking stiffs? I can look at the skill and athleticism and easily see this was a substandard era compared to today, the 80s, the 90s etc. Hell the level of athleticism and skill went up substantially in the 70s from this basketball. Take off the wine goggles about the game 60 years ago.

The 70s ushered in more rule changes than any changes regarding skill and athelticism tbh.
I can't imagine watching highlights of Wilt and Oscar Robertson and coming away thinking they were "slow and unathletic" actually. I don't see that at all in their games.
And further to the point, the game wasn't slow at all back then. In fact, it was played at a much faster pace than future iterations of the sport, so you're just flat out wrong about that.

In 1974 Maurice Green only ran 9.79 for the 100m. Don't you realize how stiff and unathletic dudes in the 70s were?
In 1986 Usain Bolt ran .2 faster (and no one has run faster since). Evidence the 80s were the most athletic decade.

[70sFan]

I mean look at this. What are we even talking about here? The game was so slow and unathletic. These guys have completely loose handles…lucky that no one was really any good at defense. They got to the rim because the defense was so slow to react and help. No one ever faced a trap. Rarely did anyone even got double teamed. Players got a ridiculous amount of time to get their slow ass jumpers off. This is what people are trying to defend in here? Why? It was terrible basketball.

Watch on YouTube

Watch full games instead of slowed down "highlights" if you want to see help defense, doubles and traps. Learn the rules before talking ridiculous things about ball-handling.

We’ve all seen full games on ESPN or NBA TV classic. It’s 2022…who hasn’t? Who gives a crap about the rules if 90% of these dudes are walking stiffs? I can look at the skill and athleticism and easily see this was a substandard era compared to today, the 80s, the 90s etc. Hell the level of athleticism and skill went up substantially in the 70s from this basketball. Take off the wine goggles about the game 60 years ago.

If you watch on ESPN, then you maybe watched two 1960s games...

1980s wasn't different from athletic standpoint than 1960s. 1960s players still dominated in the 1970s.

[LAL1947]

Watch on YouTube

[hippesthippo]

JJ wouldn't last in the 'Plumber and fireman' era.

He was a scrub in the 00's and only found relevance in the league as the it transitioned to the 3 ball and defensive rules changed. Even then, JJ was only a role player. He made that comment as if he could survive in an earlier era. If someone else said it, like a Lebron, sure. But JJ Reddick needs to learn his place when taking shots at older eras.

JJ was a scrub

lmao

Mans virtually created the on the move three

You saying JJ created it? I really hope not.

[Woodsanity]

Yeah, I've never disagreed more with you then. There's zero question he'd be on a different level from any guard of that era.

It wasn't guards league though. Mikan dominated the league, not Wazner or Davies.

Reddick had 50+ years of additional science in health, nutrition, basketball, etc to build on! And the game was always a guards game, when guards were good enough. There just weren't good guards then.

The game has always been dominated by big men. Dominant guards have always been the minority.

Wilt, Kareem, Shaq, Russell, Hakeem, Tim Duncan. How many of the top players all time are C/PF?

[dhsilv2]

Watch full games instead of slowed down "highlights" if you want to see help defense, doubles and traps. Learn the rules before talking ridiculous things about ball-handling.

We’ve all seen full games on ESPN or NBA TV classic. It’s 2022…who hasn’t? Who gives a crap about the rules if 90% of these dudes are walking stiffs? I can look at the skill and athleticism and easily see this was a substandard era compared to today, the 80s, the 90s etc. Hell the level of athleticism and skill went up substantially in the 70s from this basketball. Take off the wine goggles about the game 60 years ago.

The 70s ushered in more rule changes than any changes regarding skill and athelticism tbh.
I can't imagine watching highlights of Wilt and Oscar Robertson and coming away thinking they were "slow and unathletic" actually. I don't see that at all in their games.
And further to the point, the game wasn't slow at all back then. In fact, it was played at a much faster pace than future iterations of the sport, so you're just flat out wrong about that.

Big men were pretty athletic by the 60's for sure. Oscar and to a lesser extent West didn't look like the species as some of their contemporaries early on in their careers especially. Oscar especially just moved fluidly like a modern player. Not that there weren't some other guys who had some of that, but Oscar among today's guards wouldn't look so nearly insanely buttery with his dribble and body control.

But really from mid 60's till the late 80's I don't think you really see huge changes. Of course the 90's starts the in season weight training and of course the steroid era breaks out.

[hoosierdaddy34]

Watch full games instead of slowed down "highlights" if you want to see help defense, doubles and traps. Learn the rules before talking ridiculous things about ball-handling.

We’ve all seen full games on ESPN or NBA TV classic. It’s 2022…who hasn’t? Who gives a crap about the rules if 90% of these dudes are walking stiffs? I can look at the skill and athleticism and easily see this was a substandard era compared to today, the 80s, the 90s etc. Hell the level of athleticism and skill went up substantially in the 70s from this basketball. Take off the wine goggles about the game 60 years ago.

The 70s ushered in more rule changes than any changes regarding skill and athelticism tbh.
I can't imagine watching highlights of Wilt and Oscar Robertson and coming away thinking they were "slow and unathletic" actually. I don't see that at all in their games.
And further to the point, the game wasn't slow at all back then. In fact, it was played at a much faster pace than future iterations of the sport, so you're just flat out wrong about that.

1. I said earlier that 90% of the league were tomato cans. I realize that there were obviously exceptions. I never said there wasn’t.

2. Stop twisting my point, I was talking about the players being unathletic and slow. We can all see they were just by watching them. Great a bunch of unathletic people pushed the pace…fantastic. That completely destroys my point

[hoosierdaddy34]

Watch full games instead of slowed down "highlights" if you want to see help defense, doubles and traps. Learn the rules before talking ridiculous things about ball-handling.

We’ve all seen full games on ESPN or NBA TV classic. It’s 2022…who hasn’t? Who gives a crap about the rules if 90% of these dudes are walking stiffs? I can look at the skill and athleticism and easily see this was a substandard era compared to today, the 80s, the 90s etc. Hell the level of athleticism and skill went up substantially in the 70s from this basketball. Take off the wine goggles about the game 60 years ago.

If you watch on ESPN, then you maybe watched two 1960s games...

1980s wasn't different from athletic standpoint than 1960s. 1960s players still dominated in the 1970s.

Dr J and Kareem dominated the 70s. What are you talking about?

And there is a huge difference between level of play in the 80s from 60s. It’s pretty bad you can’t see that just by watching the games.

Wine goggles

[70sFan]

We’ve all seen full games on ESPN or NBA TV classic. It’s 2022…who hasn’t? Who gives a crap about the rules if 90% of these dudes are walking stiffs? I can look at the skill and athleticism and easily see this was a substandard era compared to today, the 80s, the 90s etc. Hell the level of athleticism and skill went up substantially in the 70s from this basketball. Take off the wine goggles about the game 60 years ago.

If you watch on ESPN, then you maybe watched two 1960s games...

1980s wasn't different from athletic standpoint than 1960s. 1960s players still dominated in the 1970s.

Dr J and Kareem dominated the 70s. What are you talking about?

And there is a huge difference between level of play in the 80s from 60s. It’s pretty bad you can’t see that just by watching the games.

Wine goggles

Wilt, Oscar and West were all MVP caliber players in the early 1970s. The best guard in the league after them was Walt Frazier who played in the 1960s. John Havlicek was arguably the third best player of the decade and he started his career in 1962. Not to mention that Kareem himself started his career in the 1960s.

What's the huge difference between 1960s and 1980s? Name them, with footage examples to prove your point.

[70sFan]

We’ve all seen full games on ESPN or NBA TV classic. It’s 2022…who hasn’t? Who gives a crap about the rules if 90% of these dudes are walking stiffs? I can look at the skill and athleticism and easily see this was a substandard era compared to today, the 80s, the 90s etc. Hell the level of athleticism and skill went up substantially in the 70s from this basketball. Take off the wine goggles about the game 60 years ago.

The 70s ushered in more rule changes than any changes regarding skill and athelticism tbh.
I can't imagine watching highlights of Wilt and Oscar Robertson and coming away thinking they were "slow and unathletic" actually. I don't see that at all in their games.
And further to the point, the game wasn't slow at all back then. In fact, it was played at a much faster pace than future iterations of the sport, so you're just flat out wrong about that.

1. I said earlier that 90% of the league were tomato cans. I realize that there were obviously exceptions. I never said there wasn’t.

2. Stop twisting my point, I was talking about the players being unathletic and slow. We can all see they were just by watching them. Great a bunch of unathletic people pushed the pace…fantastic. That completely destroys my point

Can you name the 90% of the league? Have you watched a single game from 90% of this league? Of course you didn't, you have no idea how average player from the 1960s looked like.