DPOY and All-Defense Thread 2023 (FINAL poll reset)

[B-easy]

Most of that reddit stuff was refuted no?

[eyeatoma]

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/10nbau4/memphis_grizzlies_scorekeeper_posting_fraudulent

Some redditor points out that JJJ's steals+blocks numbers may be heavily inflated by biased scorekeeping. Also some video examples in the comments. I thought it was a hater post at the beginning, he makes a pretty convincing case. The difference between his home and road games is egregious.

Take this as you want.

Just created a thread about this, and was going to post it over here as well. Nice job picking up on it.

[eyeatoma]

Most of that reddit stuff was refuted no?

Don't think so, go to the reddit thread and watch the clips he indicated. They look pretty egregious.

[-Luke-]

I feel bad for JJJ now. I think he totally deserves to be in the discussion for DPOY even if his stats are inflated. But if that makes big waves, it could cost him a significant number of votes.

[cupcakesnake]

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/10nbau4/memphis_grizzlies_scorekeeper_posting_fraudulent

Some redditor points out that JJJ's steals+blocks numbers may be heavily inflated by biased scorekeeping. Also some video examples in the comments. I thought it was a hater post at the beginning, he makes a pretty convincing case. The difference between his home and road games is egregious.

Take this as you want.

I'd need to see evidence that this wasn't happening with other players. This study just examines JJJ, not whether he's getting treatment that other players aren't. Scorekeeping has been consistently been this way forever.

[Big FatKAT]

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/10nbau4/memphis_grizzlies_scorekeeper_posting_fraudulent

Some redditor points out that JJJ's steals+blocks numbers may be heavily inflated by biased scorekeeping. Also some video examples in the comments. I thought it was a hater post at the beginning, he makes a pretty convincing case. The difference between his home and road games is egregious.

Take this as you want.

I'd need to see evidence that this wasn't happening with other players. This study just examines JJJ, not whether he's getting treatment that other players aren't. Scorekeeping has been consistently been this way forever.

those splits though

[James_Raptors]

Stocks for OG:

Road: 2.8
Home: 2.9

[Dacost]

So a guy on reddit watches just 2 Grizzlies games and people just believe him????

This is nothing but a conspiracy theory and is just simple.

At home Jaren doesn't foul out.
Away games he can't even stay on the court.

This whole score keeper thing is legit dumb if you go see every player in detail you will see 2 or 3 plays when they credit with them something.

Also the NBA reviews stats after every game.

[Fairview4Life]

So a guy on reddit watches just 2 Grizzlies games and people just believe him????

This is nothing but a conspiracy theory and is just simple.

At home Jaren doesn't foul out.
Away games he can't even stay on the court.

This whole score keeper thing is legit dumb if you go see every player in detail you will see 2 or 3 plays when they credit with them something.

Also the NBA reviews stats after every game.

The stats analysis for the whole season is incredibly damning and they backed that up by pulling a bunch of extremely egregious examples from game play where he was being credited with blocks that never occurred and steals that were not steals. This is well beyond 2 or 3 plays. It’s like 2 or 3 plays every single home game, minimum.

[HardenGoat]

I imagine there’s a money trail that could be found out. If so there is a group in cahoots and a blind eye taken so far. Doubling the defensive stats at home is not a coincidence and it’s not being done by one person.

[Jurassic_Park]

The runaway favorite is on pace to miss nearly 30 games this season and only plays 26 MPG because he can’t stay out of foul trouble

I wouldn't call it runaway favorite in this poll - look at the MVP poll for what runaway looks like . the fact that he's not averaging 30 minutes a game is what's keeping him back from being the runaway favorite. But his impact in those minutes cannot be argued; best in the league.

I am surprised how much of a favorite he is in Vegas though - has the best odds by a wide margin. In the case of Lopez, Claxton and OG, the explanations are easy.
- Lopez and Claxton tied for 2nd best odds are good but not DPOY caliber in the heads of most people
- OG (tied for 3rd best odds with Bam) is on a non-playoff team and it seems weird to give this to someone on a non-playoff team

I don't get why Bam is so underrated though. I'd bet on him rising as the Heat rise in the ladder.

Odds have changed a lot now. The race is wide open. JJJ, Bam, Claxton and Lopez all have close odds

[3ammy3uck3ts]

He didn’t deserve it in the first place tbh, hopefully this is the nail in the coffin

[Dacost]

He didn’t deserve it in the first place tbh, hopefully this is the nail in the coffin

Why though ?Because of reddit post?

[3ammy3uck3ts]

He didn’t deserve it in the first place tbh, hopefully this is the nail in the coffin

Why though ?Because of reddit post?

We’ll he doesn’t deserve it because he plays 26 MPG and is on pace to miss nearly 30 games but yes then being caught inflating his stats makes it worse too

[Dacost]

He didn’t deserve it in the first place tbh, hopefully this is the nail in the coffin

Why though ?Because of reddit post?

We’ll he doesn’t deserve it because he plays 26 MPG and is on pace to miss nearly 30 games but yes then being caught inflating his stats makes it worse too

1.The inflation thing is untrue.
2.theres no minute limit for DPOY
3.30 games is just at the limit for games miss for DPOY.

In my opinion you are just looking for any excuse to discredit him.

The real question is why.
1.you want someone else to win it (Bam fans)
2.you are a grizzlies hater (warriors fans)
3.you are naive and believe anything people tell you.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Why though ?Because of reddit post?

We’ll he doesn’t deserve it because he plays 26 MPG and is on pace to miss nearly 30 games but yes then being caught inflating his stats makes it worse too

1.The inflation thing is untrue.
2.theres no minute limit for DPOY
3.30 games is just at the limit for games miss for DPOY.

In my opinion you are just looking for any excuse to discredit him.

The real question is why.
1.you want someone else to win it (Bam fans)
2.you are a grizzlies hater (warriors fans)
3.you are naive and believe anything people tell you.

[moderndarwin]

Draymond has actually been playing amazing on defense this year. He’s in shape and not missing games. Does a lot out there. Most versatile defender in the league still. Being heavily underrated and under appreciated this year because of the overall lack of consistency by the Dubs. If everyone is healthy the second half of the season (especially Wiggins) I fully expect a lot more solid defensive performances by them.

[TheLand13]

I'm starting to think that Evan Mobley has surpassed Jarrett Allen as our best defensive player. I need to see what I'm seeing now on a more consistent basis, but it feels like Mobley has taken the initiative and is really becoming dominant on that end. I don't necessarily view this as Allen getting worse per say, but rather, I think Mobley is just progressing and getting better as the season is going on. It's insane how good he is at such a young age.

[VCfor3]

Couple tweets refuting the claim JJJ's blocks are greatly inflated. Some are threads. The NBA has additional camera angles that we don't get to see so some of the questionable ones may have an angle that looks different/clearer, but that only applies to a couple blocks and even if you exclude those it doesn't change his stats much. Memphis is 20-3 at home and 11-15 on the road. We probably have quite a few stats that'll be greatly skewed to favor us at home.

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[cupcakesnake]

The JJJ stats thing is dumb. You can go watch all his blocks on NBA.com or https://the-high-low.com/ and decide for yourself, but if you're not willing to do that, you can either:
a) Trust the people that have.
b) Accept that you're excited about this story for the wrong reasons.

On a semi-related note:
I really appreciate super-fans from any specific franchise providing insight on what their favorite defensive player does well and how he adds value defensively. On the other hand, there's so many people that just PUSH their guy for DPOY without knowing or caring about the other candidates. There's not too much of that but people should know how transparent it is or how hard it is to take someone seriously when they're getting *defensive* about a guy on their team, or tearing down other players they view as threats to their guys candidacy. Imagine how annoying I would be if the only thing I ever posted in this thread was about Rudy Gobert and Jaden McDaniels or crapping on Brook Lopez and OG Anunoby or whoever else.