NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2022-23 (pt 2)

[moderndarwin]

Steph likely the right choice - going to have the Dubs on a tear once he comes back. Good for them right now to have time without him so some of the newer guys and Wiseman can get burn and give production

[Yuri36]

It's funny btw, Tatum's fans are using the defensive aspect to put him above a guy like Luka but still, Luka dominates him in 2 of the 3 main defensive stats, rebounds and steals.
Obviously not saying Tatum is not the better defensive player but at least, it might put some thought on people who keep saying that JayTat is in different galaxy on the defensive end.

Celtics are +11 with Tatum on floor, -2 with him on the bench. Last year they were +12 with Tatum on the floor, -2 with him on the bench.

Mavericks are +4 with Luka on floor, -3 with him on the bench. Last year they were +4 with Luka on floor, +3 with him on the bench.

The defense is reflected in the team performance. Tatum’s one of the best wing defenders in the entire league. Luka’s still below average.

Cool, those stats only prove that except Luka, Celtics's starting five is far better than Mavs but that their benches are of comparable level.
Nothing new then

[SOA]

It looks like Luka has entered the chat.

[Ambrose]

Jokic is still in the lead but this is a crazy year for MVP. The top six (Jokic/Luka/Tatum/Giannis/Embiid/KD in some order) are all legit candidates.

[playa-hater]

Tatum or Joker or Joker or Tatum.. They both impact their teams in a little bit different of a way but I see them as the top 2 by a good margin over the rest of the field..

As of now of course.. Things can change..

what seperates Durant and Tatum?

personally I have Durant over Tatum rn, I think he's the clear #2 atm and if he stays healthy, keeps it up and the Nets continue to dominate,and don't kid urselves they've been dominating ever since the weak start - I think he is likely to get it

even Jokic somehow continues this crazyness and Durant will finish 2nd, in your opinion -how come Tatum has a good margin over Durant?
(others as well, but let's focus on KD for the moment)

sorry for the delay... When I said "by a "good margin" I wasn't referring to a statistical difference between JT or KD or anyone else. quite a few are very close to that. "by a wide Margin" is that I believe Joker/Tatum would have more 1st place votes over the rest by a wide margin.

as far as KD goes, He is my favorite Non Celtic and do think he has been = or better than Lebron for may years... So anyone voting for KD won't hear a complaint from me..

But I do think that the narrative that Tatum may get the MVP because Boston has the best record Etc.. is one thing, but not mine.. Tatum making such an impact in his +/- (which is a huge sample size) over everyone including the great Joker is a bigger story. Most don't see every/any? Boston games. I see them all. You really have to watch to see how he impacts both the offensive and defensive units when he is in there. He really gels them both. If Boston had "such good teammates" you would think there wouldn't be a big drop-off when he is off the court. But there always is.. even beyond this season.

Box-score numbers (which of course are still good in Tatum's case) DO NOT do Tatum justice enough.

It is really a great race, a long way to Go.. But I still believe as of now Tatum and Jokic would have a decent lead for MVP votes > the rest..

[Cubbies2120]

I think last night's performance has the rankings pretty clearly at:
1.Luka
2.Jokic
Everyone else

This is one of those performances that voters will remember (and rightfully so).

IMO Luka is the one MVP candidate that will be able to transcend team seeding to win MVP - I think Jokic/Tatum need #1 seed, but Luka may be able to win it with a ~4 seed.

[Cubbies2120]

Steph likely the right choice - going to have the Dubs on a tear once he comes back. Good for them right now to have time without him so some of the newer guys and Wiseman can get burn and give production

I thought you were just a homer but you're clearly trolling.

Yeah the guy thats gonna miss like 20 games is gonna win MVP

[PierceFan4ever]

Jokic
Tatum
Luka
Durant
Embiid
Giannis

Seems like the 6 candidates that have separated from everyone else. Steph was there in the mix before the injuries.

Normally I would say Jokic would be the easy frontrunner but I just get the feeling they won’t vote him no matter what to win 3 straight since Jordan or Lebron didn’t do it since Bird. We’re not even at the half way point but this is a pretty epic battle going on among those 6. A few bad games and losses or vice versa can alter several spots between the guys imo.

[LessEyeTest]

1. Luka
2. Jokic
3. Giannis
4. Tatum
5. Durant

6. Morant
7. Embiid
8. Zion
9. Gilgeous-Alexander
10. Mitchell

Lmao at you putting the league leading scorer who just had an 8 game winning streak at 7.

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You’ll really die on this hill, huh? Everyone here watches games and everyone here doesn’t think he’s MVP worthy yet you’ll keep insisting he’s the MVP favorite. JFC

[Duke4life831]

This is one of the stronger 1st half MVP races I can remember. Also the league's young talent and guys just entering their prime is ridiculous at the moment. Either than KD everyone is 28 or younger. We have guys like Tatum and Luka who are putting up legit MVP worthy seasons at 24 and 23 years old.

[DonaldSanders]

IMO Luka is the one MVP candidate that will be able to transcend team seeding to win MVP - I think Jokic/Tatum need #1 seed, but Luka may be able to win it with a ~4 seed.

I'm really tired of the whole team seed thing mattering so much. I'd much rather MVP be for the best performance than the "best player on the best team" thing; Maybe eliminate teams under 500, but it would really bother me if Luka's crazy season is undermined by his team record. Clearly this Mavs team would be in the Wemby chase without him, it's just an incredible performance even if they never end up in the top 4 seeding.

[CobraCommander]

I think last night's performance has the rankings pretty clearly at:
1.Luka
2.Jokic
Everyone else

This is one of those performances that voters will remember (and rightfully so).

IMO Luka is the one MVP candidate that will be able to transcend team seeding to win MVP - I think Jokic/Tatum need #1 seed, but Luka may be able to win it with a ~4 seed.

I think you are wrong- I think jokic still in first and tatum is second - but I understand your opinion- that Luka performance was INSANE. It had everything- from efficiency to luck to amazing talent in a come back!

I’m still in shock cause I watched it real time and the whole family was yelling - even the dogs were like WTF.

But I just watched jokics last 10 games and that one Luka game was great but doesn’t trump what jokic is doing nightly while leading the west. Plus as Insane as this sounds - this is the second 60 point triple double I have seen and I also saw Booker ger 70 and one game, no matter how good 1 game is…. No crazy single game can jump jokics consistent dominance-

But man Luka making it interesting

[CobraCommander]

IMO Luka is the one MVP candidate that will be able to transcend team seeding to win MVP - I think Jokic/Tatum need #1 seed, but Luka may be able to win it with a ~4 seed.

I'm really tired of the whole team seed thing mattering so much. I'd much rather MVP be for the best performance than the "best player on the best team" thing; Maybe eliminate teams under 500, but it would really bother me if Luka's crazy season is undermined by his team record. Clearly this Mavs team would be in the Wemby chase without him, it's just an incredible performance even if they never end up in the top 4 seeding.

But this has been the rule forever. The writers value winning over star stats. And it kinda makes sense… if Luka gets the MVP on a losing team or a subpar team, you could end up rewarding stat stuffing over valuing winning… and winning is what sports is about -

But let’s be real about this… if Luka had 60 last night and lost - would it be as good as what we saw?? Naw… he did what was needed to win and at the end of the day you just add up the stats and it is what it is… Luka a winner - he will get the Mavs in the running

[sunsbg]

IMO Luka is the one MVP candidate that will be able to transcend team seeding to win MVP - I think Jokic/Tatum need #1 seed, but Luka may be able to win it with a ~4 seed.

I'm really tired of the whole team seed thing mattering so much. I'd much rather MVP be for the best performance than the "best player on the best team" thing; Maybe eliminate teams under 500, but it would really bother me if Luka's crazy season is undermined by his team record. Clearly this Mavs team would be in the Wemby chase without him, it's just an incredible performance even if they never end up in the top 4 seeding.

But this has been the rule forever. The writers value winning over star stats. And it kinda makes sense… if Luka gets the MVP on a losing team or a subpar team, you could end up rewarding stat stuffing over valuing winning… and winning is what sports is about -

But let’s be real about this… if Luka had 60 last night and lost - would it be as good as what we saw?? Naw… he did what was needed to win and at the end of the day you just add up the stats and it is what it is… Luka a winner - he will get the Mavs in the running

Luka will be in the race as long as his team's record is positive, 6th seed or better preferably to align with Jokic's case. Winning and stats should go hand in hand, which is usually the case with all awards. As an example Euroleague has round MVP given to the player with best PIR on a team that won. Imagine NBA had a game day MVP, Mavs lost and Luka is not considered the MVP. Kinda silly, but shows all leagues promote winning.

Anyway, very competitive MVP race between 5-6 players. I think by this time last season Jokic was a big frontrunner.

[GeorgeSears]

The Mavs are going to need to stay out of the play-in (which they currently are) for Luka to have a chance at the award.

[Texas Chuck]

1. Luka
2. Jokic
3. Giannis
4. Tatum
5. Durant

6. Morant
7. Embiid
8. Zion
9. Gilgeous-Alexander
10. Mitchell

Lmao at you putting the league leading scorer who just had an 8 game winning streak at 7.

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You’ll really die on this hill, huh? Everyone here watches games and everyone here doesn’t think he’s MVP worthy yet you’ll keep insisting he’s the MVP favorite. JFC

Everyone here does not agree he's not MVP worthy. And you may have missed this, but he has finished 2nd in b2b years so its not like this is new from him. Embiid is a great player, absolutely an MVP level player.

He's not my frontrunner, Tatum, Jokic, and Giannis are my top 3, but I absolutely think he belongs in any serious MVP consideration.

[DonaldSanders]

Luka will be in the race as long as his team's record is positive, 6th seed or better preferably to align with Jokic's case. Winning and stats should go hand in hand, which is usually the case with all awards.

I guess there has to be some arbitrary cut off point... but if Luka is a big carry all season and they end up in 7th and 1 game out of the 6th seed I think he still should be considered. I mean 2 out of the last 6 MVPs have been 6th seeds, is a close 7th seed really that different? Food for thought I guess.

[Johnny Firpo]

But this has been the rule forever. The writers value winning over star stats. And it kinda makes sense… if Luka gets the MVP on a losing team or a subpar team, you could end up rewarding stat stuffing over valuing winning… and winning is what sports is about.

It wasn't really ever a rule, it just coincided that way, because the best player usually have a high seed and they usually win a ton of games. But they don't automatically look at the best records and then search for the best players on those teams, they look at the best players first, it's just that this usually has a high correlation with high win numbers. That doesn't mean you eliminate a potential best player due to team record, and they never really did that either, Kareem won with a 40-42 record. And they certainly don't do it these days, two of the last six MVPS were 6th seeds. Good, I say, it was never really a rule, and if it was, it was certainly a dumb one.

[Bob8]

I think last night's performance has the rankings pretty clearly at:
1.Luka
2.Jokic
Everyone else

This is one of those performances that voters will remember (and rightfully so).

IMO Luka is the one MVP candidate that will be able to transcend team seeding to win MVP - I think Jokic/Tatum need #1 seed, but Luka may be able to win it with a ~4 seed.

I think you are wrong- I think jokic still in first and tatum is second - but I understand your opinion- that Luka performance was INSANE. It had everything- from efficiency to luck to amazing talent in a come back!

I’m still in shock cause I watched it real time and the whole family was yelling - even the dogs were like WTF.

But I just watched jokics last 10 games and that one Luka game was great but doesn’t trump what jokic is doing nightly while leading the west. Plus as Insane as this sounds - this is the second 60 point triple double I have seen and I also saw Booker ger 70 and one game, no matter how good 1 game is…. No crazy single game can jump jokics consistent dominance-

But man Luka making it interesting

Have you missed his 50 points game 2 games ago or winning player of the week award last week? Only 1 game?

Booker had 70 and Suns has lost by 10, not exactly what happened last night, with Luka scoring 10 points in last minute, having 2 crucial offensive rebounds, a steal and tied the game in last second.

[Bob8]

Lmao at you putting the league leading scorer who just had an 8 game winning streak at 7.

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You’ll really die on this hill, huh? Everyone here watches games and everyone here doesn’t think he’s MVP worthy yet you’ll keep insisting he’s the MVP favorite. JFC

Everyone here does not agree he's not MVP worthy. And you may have missed this, but he has finished 2nd in b2b years so its not like this is new from him. Embiid is a great player, absolutely an MVP level player.

He's not my frontrunner, Tatum, Jokic, and Giannis are my top 3, but I absolutely think he belongs in any serious MVP consideration.

What has Giannis done to be in top 3? Bucks really have great record, but are 3:1 without him too.