Is Jamal Murray washed?

[dhsilv2]

His seasonal averages are pretty close to the past two seasons, he just blows at the starts of seasons and has notable limitations overall. He's been hitting from 3 the past 2 months (42.4% in December and 45.3% so far in January), which has been the difference. He'll slump again when the 3 quiets down, as that represents over a third of his shooting volume.

Yeah if you check his season splits by month, he pretty much starts off badly every.single.year and then slowly ramps things up until February, where his production levels off for the remainder of the year.

Really, nobody should be surprised by his trajectory this year. It's just that every year people have higher expectations to start the season.

I think it's just that (some) people want there to be enough around Jokic, and when Murray struggles, the team ends up in worse shape. And then some people want to bang on Jokic for not winning when he has "enough," which Murray is supposed to represent, despite his myriad flaws. If he's healthy and his shot is falling at the right time, though, maybe they can recapture 2023. We'll have to see. Such is life with shooters.

Murray for a while there looked like he had lost a step and a bit of spring in said step. As long as he physically is still moving well...the inconsistency is what it is.

[tsherkin]

Murray for a while there looked like he had lost a step and a bit of spring in said step. As long as he physically is still moving well...the inconsistency is what it is.

He's a shooter who doesn't have huge burst or power, it is what it is, right? He doesn't get to the rim, he doesn't crush fouls, he doesn't brutalize you with his raw finishing percentages. He gets hot on the J and he's nasty... or he doesn't, and he isn't. He's got some speed now that he's in mid-season shape, but it goes only so far. We'll see how it goes the rest of the way.

[dhsilv2]

Murray for a while there looked like he had lost a step and a bit of spring in said step. As long as he physically is still moving well...the inconsistency is what it is.

He's a shooter who doesn't have huge burst or power, it is what it is, right? He doesn't get to the rim, he doesn't crush fouls, he doesn't brutalize you with his raw finishing percentages. He gets hot on the J and he's nasty... or he doesn't, and he isn't. He's got some speed now that he's in mid-season shape, but it goes only so far. We'll see how it goes the rest of the way.

He's not a guy who puts a LOT of pressure at the rim, but that makes any loss in athletic ability more terrible.

[tsherkin]

He's not a guy who puts a LOT of pressure at the rim, but that makes any loss in athletic ability more terrible.

Earlier in his career, he was decent at it. Now, he gets like 17% of his shots at the rim. He doesn't get all the way and can't really finish that close among the trees. He is, historically speaking, a poor finisher in close, though he's just under league average right now. He has a pretty even distribution inside the arc, and bombs 3s. That's what he's been doing basically since 2021.

But obviously, any mobility issues in a little, fast guy are hugely problematic. We'll see what happens over the remainder of the season, but at the moment, he's a negative TSAdd guy for a reason, and is such on the balance of his career.

[HotRocks34]

55 points tonight.

Nuggets look very dangerous.

I don't know if they can beat OKC because the Thunder are great at double teaming Jokic. But Denver looks strong and surprisingly deep.

[XTC]

Someone might want to check in with the haters...

Murray is averaging 23/4/6 on 50/40/90 shooting splits his last 33 games

It was clear he was injured, and playing for Canada in the summer didn't exactly help. He is an amazing fit next to Joker.

[MrPainfulTruth]

Anyone telling us how great Jamal is actually watching games, or just boxscore experts?

[Crunch 99]

No.

[TheFire]

I saw this dude annihilate every player the Rockets threw at him yesterday.

When he's on, he's so fun to watch and a scarry sight for defenses. He's like Steph and Dame in that sense.

[Ssj16]

Someone might want to check in with the haters...

Murray is averaging 23/4/6 on 50/40/90 shooting splits his last 33 games

It was clear he was injured, and playing for Canada in the summer didn't exactly help. He is an amazing fit next to Joker.

For the record, the criticism did not only come from haters. Im a big Murray supporter and when you factor in the way he flamed out in the Minny series, an atrocious showing with Team Canada in the Olympics combined with an abhorrent start to this season, it was very valid to question if he was washed.

Im happy that answer is no.

[The Servant]

Someone might want to check in with the haters...

Murray is averaging 23/4/6 on 50/40/90 shooting splits his last 33 games

It was clear he was injured, and playing for Canada in the summer didn't exactly help. He is an amazing fit next to Joker.

-Averages 55 games a season
-21/4/6 for 50m, 54m, 58m, 62m/year

Wouldn't really matter to most, its just we have a top 20 all time player whos career is about to be held hostage to 55m/year for a 20ppg side kick.

[XTC]

Someone might want to check in with the haters...

Murray is averaging 23/4/6 on 50/40/90 shooting splits his last 33 games

It was clear he was injured, and playing for Canada in the summer didn't exactly help. He is an amazing fit next to Joker.

-Averages 55 games a season
-21/4/6 for 50m, 54m, 58m, 62m/year

Wouldn't really matter to most, its just we have a top 20 all time player whos career is about to be held hostage to 55m/year for a 20ppg side kick.

The Nuggets don't win in 2023 without Murray. Guy is one of the better 2nd options in the league, and a great fit next to Jokic.

[sp6r=underrated]

Someone might want to check in with the haters...

Murray is averaging 23/4/6 on 50/40/90 shooting splits his last 33 games

It was clear he was injured, and playing for Canada in the summer didn't exactly help. He is an amazing fit next to Joker.

-Averages 55 games a season
-21/4/6 for 50m, 54m, 58m, 62m/year

Wouldn't really matter to most, its just we have a top 20 all time player whos career is about to be held hostage to 55m/year for a 20ppg side kick.

Someone mentioned in the Flagg thread, correctly, that lots of fans have the wrong baseline for stats. It used to be Murray's stats were excellent for a # 2. Nowadays, he is a very mediocre 2nd best player for a title contender.

In 2024, 48 players players played 1000 minutes and averaged 20ppg.
In 2024, 17 players players played 1000 minutes and averaged 25ppg.
In 2024, 4 players players played 1000 minutes and averaged 30ppg.

In 2014, 20 players players played 1000 minutes and averaged 20ppg.
In 2014, 5 players players played 1000 minutes and averaged 25ppg.
In 2014, 1 players players played 1000 minutes and averaged 30ppg.

In 2004, 21 players players played 1000 minutes and averaged 20ppg.
In 2004, 2 players players played 1000 minutes and averaged 25ppg.
In 2004, 0 players players played 1000 minutes and averaged 30ppg.

In 1994, 18 players players played 1000 minutes and averaged 20ppg.
In 1994, 5 players players played 1000 minutes and averaged 25ppg.
In 1994, 0 players players played 1000 minutes and averaged 30ppg.

In 1984, 28 players players played 1000 minutes and averaged 20ppg.
In 1984, 6 players players played 1000 minutes and averaged 25ppg.
In 1984, 1 players players played 1000 minutes and averaged 30ppg.

20ppg today just doesn't mean nearly as much as it used. And Murray's main value is his scoring so the fact his PPG doesn't stand out nowadays is important.

He is a good player but the Nuggets are in year 7 of Jokic being an MVP level player. It is sad that this is still his best teammate.

You probably have to go back to KG in Minnesota to find a clearly worse job of building around an ATG.

[Infinite Llamas]

And then he scored 10 a couple nights back against a diminished Portland team.

But that’s Murray in a nutshell. Can be very dynamic and impactful…but you just never know when he’s going to show up.

[RRR3]

Someone might want to check in with the haters...

Murray is averaging 23/4/6 on 50/40/90 shooting splits his last 33 games

It was clear he was injured, and playing for Canada in the summer didn't exactly help. He is an amazing fit next to Joker.

-Averages 55 games a season
-21/4/6 for 50m, 54m, 58m, 62m/year

Wouldn't really matter to most, its just we have a top 20 all time player whos career is about to be held hostage to 55m/year for a 20ppg side kick.

Someone mentioned in the Flagg thread, correctly, that lots of fans have the wrong baseline for stats. It used to be Murray's stats were excellent for a # 2. Nowadays, he is a very mediocre 2nd best player for a title contender.

In 2024, 48 players players played 1000 minutes and averaged 20ppg.
In 2024, 17 players players played 1000 minutes and averaged 25ppg.
In 2024, 4 players players played 1000 minutes and averaged 30ppg.

In 2014, 20 players players played 1000 minutes and averaged 20ppg.
In 2014, 5 players players played 1000 minutes and averaged 25ppg.
In 2014, 1 players players played 1000 minutes and averaged 30ppg.

In 2004, 21 players players played 1000 minutes and averaged 20ppg.
In 2004, 2 players players played 1000 minutes and averaged 25ppg.
In 2004, 0 players players played 1000 minutes and averaged 30ppg.

In 1994, 18 players players played 1000 minutes and averaged 20ppg.
In 1994, 5 players players played 1000 minutes and averaged 25ppg.
In 1994, 0 players players played 1000 minutes and averaged 30ppg.

In 1984, 28 players players played 1000 minutes and averaged 20ppg.
In 1984, 6 players players played 1000 minutes and averaged 25ppg.
In 1984, 1 players players played 1000 minutes and averaged 30ppg.

20ppg today just doesn't mean nearly as much as it used. And Murray's main value is his scoring so the fact his PPG doesn't stand out nowadays is important.

He is a good player but the Nuggets are in year 7 of Jokic being an MVP level player. It is sad that this is still his best teammate.

You probably have to go back to KG in Minnesota to find a clearly worse job of building around an ATG.

The best player the Cavs gave LeBron from 2004-10 was Mo Williams. Jokic stans are delusional.

[TinmanZBoy]

Dude was washed for half a year with no lift…. Now back to a stable level that is never up to what he is supposed to be as the No.2 in a championship team… not in an all star level in the last couple of months either

[sp6r=underrated]

-Averages 55 games a season
-21/4/6 for 50m, 54m, 58m, 62m/year

Wouldn't really matter to most, its just we have a top 20 all time player whos career is about to be held hostage to 55m/year for a 20ppg side kick.

Someone mentioned in the Flagg thread, correctly, that lots of fans have the wrong baseline for stats. It used to be Murray's stats were excellent for a # 2. Nowadays, he is a very mediocre 2nd best player for a title contender.

In 2024, 48 players players played 1000 minutes and averaged 20ppg.
In 2024, 17 players players played 1000 minutes and averaged 25ppg.
In 2024, 4 players players played 1000 minutes and averaged 30ppg.

In 2014, 20 players players played 1000 minutes and averaged 20ppg.
In 2014, 5 players players played 1000 minutes and averaged 25ppg.
In 2014, 1 players players played 1000 minutes and averaged 30ppg.

In 2004, 21 players players played 1000 minutes and averaged 20ppg.
In 2004, 2 players players played 1000 minutes and averaged 25ppg.
In 2004, 0 players players played 1000 minutes and averaged 30ppg.

In 1994, 18 players players played 1000 minutes and averaged 20ppg.
In 1994, 5 players players played 1000 minutes and averaged 25ppg.
In 1994, 0 players players played 1000 minutes and averaged 30ppg.

In 1984, 28 players players played 1000 minutes and averaged 20ppg.
In 1984, 6 players players played 1000 minutes and averaged 25ppg.
In 1984, 1 players players played 1000 minutes and averaged 30ppg.

20ppg today just doesn't mean nearly as much as it used. And Murray's main value is his scoring so the fact his PPG doesn't stand out nowadays is important.

He is a good player but the Nuggets are in year 7 of Jokic being an MVP level player. It is sad that this is still his best teammate.

You probably have to go back to KG in Minnesota to find a clearly worse job of building around an ATG.

The best player the Cavs gave LeBron from 2004-10 was Mo Williams. Jokic stans are delusional.

I'm not really a Jokic stan. If you want to argue Lebron's supporting cast was worse I'll listen to it. It will be a debate between the Cavs defense (which was good and wasn't just Lebron) vs value of Murray's scoring punch. If you argued for Lebron's being worse I'll listen to it but it isn't clearly worse. PPG of your 2nd best player isn't the only metric, especially when that guy isn't durable at all. But again you can argue for 1st Cle Lebron having a worse supporting cast.

For clearly worse, you have to go back to KG to find a situation where mgmt was just completely clueless.

[Infinite Llamas]

-Averages 55 games a season
-21/4/6 for 50m, 54m, 58m, 62m/year

Wouldn't really matter to most, its just we have a top 20 all time player whos career is about to be held hostage to 55m/year for a 20ppg side kick.

Someone mentioned in the Flagg thread, correctly, that lots of fans have the wrong baseline for stats. It used to be Murray's stats were excellent for a # 2. Nowadays, he is a very mediocre 2nd best player for a title contender.

In 2024, 48 players players played 1000 minutes and averaged 20ppg.
In 2024, 17 players players played 1000 minutes and averaged 25ppg.
In 2024, 4 players players played 1000 minutes and averaged 30ppg.

In 2014, 20 players players played 1000 minutes and averaged 20ppg.
In 2014, 5 players players played 1000 minutes and averaged 25ppg.
In 2014, 1 players players played 1000 minutes and averaged 30ppg.

In 2004, 21 players players played 1000 minutes and averaged 20ppg.
In 2004, 2 players players played 1000 minutes and averaged 25ppg.
In 2004, 0 players players played 1000 minutes and averaged 30ppg.

In 1994, 18 players players played 1000 minutes and averaged 20ppg.
In 1994, 5 players players played 1000 minutes and averaged 25ppg.
In 1994, 0 players players played 1000 minutes and averaged 30ppg.

In 1984, 28 players players played 1000 minutes and averaged 20ppg.
In 1984, 6 players players played 1000 minutes and averaged 25ppg.
In 1984, 1 players players played 1000 minutes and averaged 30ppg.

20ppg today just doesn't mean nearly as much as it used. And Murray's main value is his scoring so the fact his PPG doesn't stand out nowadays is important.

He is a good player but the Nuggets are in year 7 of Jokic being an MVP level player. It is sad that this is still his best teammate.

You probably have to go back to KG in Minnesota to find a clearly worse job of building around an ATG.

The best player the Cavs gave LeBron from 2004-10 was Mo Williams. Jokic stans are delusional.

Big Z from 04-08 was as impactful as Murray and was consistently healthy. Murray might have the big flashy nights but he wasn’t the consistent performer that Big Z was.

[RRR3]

Big Z

Please tell me when he ever gave LeBron anything remotely resembling what Murray gave Jokic in the 20 and 23 playoffs.

[Mrakar]

Big Z

Please tell me when he ever gave LeBron anything remotely resembling what Murray gave Jokic in the 20 and 23 playoffs.

and rest of career was injured or sucked big time...
Murray could be great #2 option if he just invested in his body and career. If he was healthy in 21 and 22 i really think Nuggets could have won one more, especially in 22. Those warriors were not better then fully healthy Nuggets that season.

and this is not comment on Lebron cast, his supporting cast sucked untill he took things in his own hands and created teams he wanted in Heat, Cavs and Lakers.