ECSF: P1 | (2) Boston Celtics vs Philadelphia 76ers (3) | BOS 1-0

[dcstanley]

1. Embiid
2. Simmons
3. Irving
4. Horford
5. Hayward
6. Brown
7. Covington
8. Tatum
9. Rozier
10. Ilyasova

This is a pretty silly ranking (if that's what it is). In what world is Simmons a better player than Kyrie? He might not even be better than Hayward or Horford.

[Sixerscan]

Not sure why we are talking about only the Celtics in here. Both teams can win Saturday.

[GeorgeMarcus]

1. Embiid
2. Simmons
3. Irving
4. Horford
5. Hayward
6. Brown
7. Covington
8. Tatum
9. Rozier
10. Ilyasova

This is a pretty silly ranking (if that's what it is). In what world is Simmons a better player than Kyrie? He might not even be better than Hayward or Horford.

Haven't seen much of Simmons I assume?

[Prez]

I'd take the Simmons of the last 3-4 months or so over Kyrie. Kyrie's a fantastic player but Simmons is just otherworldly right now, on both ends.

[reload141]

I'd take the Simmons of the last 3-4 months or so over Kyrie. Kyrie's a fantastic player but Simmons is just otherworldly right now, on both ends.

For both ends sure for majority of the game, but if it's a close game and you need those buckets Kyrie is your man, easily.

Until Ben gets a legit jumpshot, then everyone is screwed.

[Prez]

I'd take the Simmons of the last 3-4 months or so over Kyrie. Kyrie's a fantastic player but Simmons is just otherworldly right now, on both ends.

For both ends sure for majority of the game, but if it's a close game and you need those buckets Kyrie is your man, easily.

Until Ben gets a legit jumpshot, then everyone is screwed.

Yeah if we're talking this season alone and both are healthy I'd rather have Kyrie on the Bucks because of fit. Dude is an insane shotmaker from basically everywhere. Will slit your throat in the clutch and feel nothing. Just think as an overall player Ben has inched past him.

[ITYSL]

ie. Sixers fans think Embiid is as good as Kareem. It doesn't mean you didn't do it. You did.

Who are these Sixers' fans? The comparison has always been to Olajuwon, who he's not as good as, but we're hoping he continues to develop similarly as.

The only instances that he's been compared to Kareem is when the 76ers are compared to the 'Showtime Lakers' by talking heads, and solely because of Simmons being compared to Magic, Embiid's correlated to Kareem because he was the Lakers' big man then. Nobody I'm aware of has directly compared them on their own, tho.

Quote out of context. I was saying that non-Sixers fans were using strawman arguments to claim that Sixers fans were equating Embiid to Kareem.

[ITYSL]

Not how the discussion went down. The overarching theme has been whether or not Saric being 'a little worse' than Hayward is a laughable statement. Based on the responses Hayward is either being overrated or Saric is being underrated.

Dude, stop trying to wriggle out of it. I quoted your post where you wrote that Celtics fans are regarding Hayward as a transcendent talent. No Celtics fan said that. That's textbook strawman argument. Deal with it.

And you're right, Celtics fans and fans of all teams pull this strawman argument all the time, mischaracterizing how fans of other teams regard their players, ie. Sixers fans think Embiid is as good as Kareem. It doesn't mean you didn't do it. You did.

Not even sure why I'm posting in this thread, because the BOS-MIL series is far from over.

I'm not wriggling out of ****. I said Celtics fans are acting like Hayward is a transcendent talent based on their reactions. That wasn't my argument, it was one comment I made amidst a much larger conversation. I even gave PearceFan the opportunity to rebut my rankings, which he didn't. Just more "homer!" comments.

Exactly zero Celtics fans were acting like, or saying that, Hayward was a transcendent talent. Exactly zero Celtics fans were regarding (your words) Hayward as a transcendent talent. You overreacted and argued against a straw man. No worries, man, it happens.

And like I said, 1st round is far from over. You might be playing the Bucks lol.

[dcstanley]

1. Embiid
2. Simmons
3. Irving
4. Horford
5. Hayward
6. Brown
7. Covington
8. Tatum
9. Rozier
10. Ilyasova

This is a pretty silly ranking (if that's what it is). In what world is Simmons a better player than Kyrie? He might not even be better than Hayward or Horford.

Haven't seen much of Simmons I assume?

I don’t really see any argument for Simmons being better than Kyrie at this point. Seems a tad reactionary.

[GeorgeMarcus]

Exactly zero Celtics fans were acting like, or saying that, Hayward was a transcendent talent. Exactly zero Celtics fans were regarding (your words) Hayward as a transcendent talent. You overreacted and argued against a straw man. No worries, man, it happens.

And like I said, 1st round is far from over. You might be playing the Bucks lol.

By exaggerating the gap between Hayward/Saric, they acted like Hayward was a transcendent talent. That's my assertion. In no way is that a straw man argument considering (a)"acting like" in this case is subject to my valuation of each player and (b) it was an isolated point within a much bigger argument.

Example of a straw man argument: the people arguing that Saric isn't as good as Hayward. Nobody in this thread ever said he was, and unlike my point that's not a matter of subjective opinion. Get it?

[GeorgeMarcus]

This is a pretty silly ranking (if that's what it is). In what world is Simmons a better player than Kyrie? He might not even be better than Hayward or Horford.

Haven't seen much of Simmons I assume?

I don’t really see any argument for Simmons being better than Kyrie at this point. Seems a tad reactionary.

Way better defender, way better at creating for his teammates, bigger, faster, stronger... There are plenty of arguments to be made whether or not you agree with the conclusion.

[ITYSL]

Exactly zero Celtics fans were acting like, or saying that, Hayward was a transcendent talent. Exactly zero Celtics fans were regarding (your words) Hayward as a transcendent talent. You overreacted and argued against a straw man. No worries, man, it happens.

And like I said, 1st round is far from over. You might be playing the Bucks lol.

By exaggerating the gap between Hayward/Saric, they acted like Hayward was a transcendent talent. That's my assertion. In no way is that a straw man argument considering (a)"acting like" in this case is subject to my valuation of each player and (b) it was an isolated point within a much bigger argument.

Example of a straw man argument: the people arguing that Saric isn't as good as Hayward. Nobody in this thread ever said he was, and unlike my point that's not a matter of subjective opinion. Get it?

Literally no one acted like Hayward was a transcendent talent, dude. It was a strawman argument. Get over it.

The Hayward of last year was the lead option on a team that won a playoff round in the much more difficult WC, and he scored 24ppg in the playoffs doing it. Transcendent talent? No. Top 20 player? Sure!

Meanwhilw, Saric is the 4th option on the Sixers, sometimes 5th depending on how RoCo or Bellinelli is playing. There is a sizable gap, sorry if the truth hurts the feelings of a poster named SuperDario. Good Lord I am just done here lol

[bakesale]

Philly have a superior offensive and defensive rating in the playoffs compared to Cleveland and Toronto. Toronto is struggling to get past the super inconsistent Wizards and Cleveland is barely beating Indiana and need Lebron to score 44 points and hit a game winner at the buzzer to beat them and you think they will humble Philly?

If you think Miami is a better team than the Wizards or Pacers

Wizards have been terrible this year. Pacers are a bit better but you're making me laugh if you think they are better than Philly.

[dcstanley]

Haven't seen much of Simmons I assume?

I don’t really see any argument for Simmons being better than Kyrie at this point. Seems a tad reactionary.

Way better defender, way better at creating for his teammates, bigger, faster, stronger... There are plenty of arguments to be made whether or not you agree with the conclusion.

Kyrie, with all of his deficiencies (defense, vision, etc) is still less of a flawed player than Simmons (though that is to be expected: Simmons is a rookie). Simmons is an elite playmaker and has proven to be a budding defensive talent but he is essentially a non-threat from outside of the restricted area. His game is still very unrefined: obviously his range is limited but he doesn’t have a semblance of a post game or the touch from floater range. He’s an elite finisher and is able to use his strength/handle to create space but he still has a way to go as a scorer.

Simmons is in the perfect situation for his abilities. He’s surrounded by excellent shooting and an elite big he can feed in the post. He’s basically the team’s only playmaker so he doesn’t have to play off-ball. I’m not sure his game translates on other teams. The Bucks, for example, are worse if you replace Giannis with Ben. Kyrie’s game is as portable as anyone else in the league. He’s an elite shot-maker that can play off-ball if necessary. He doesn’t need the spacing Ben does to be effective. That’s evident when you look at how seamless his transition has been from Cleveland to Boston.

[dcstanley]

Philly have a superior offensive and defensive rating in the playoffs compared to Cleveland and Toronto. Toronto is struggling to get past the super inconsistent Wizards and Cleveland is barely beating Indiana and need Lebron to score 44 points and hit a game winner at the buzzer to beat them and you think they will humble Philly?

If you think Miami is a better team than the Wizards or Pacers

Wizards have been terrible this year. Pacers are a bit better but you're making me laugh if you think they are better than Philly.

Washington is a much better team than Miami. They are a better team than Indiana too. Their best player played the entire year on a bum knee and missed forty games and they still made the playoffs.

The Wall/Beal/Oubre/Porter/Gortat lineup was among the league’s best in net-rating when the Wizards were not struggling with health. Teams like Indiana, MIL, CLE, maybe even Philly don’t make the playoffs if their best player misses 40 games.

[Hello Brooklyn]

Bucks do not have the coaching acumen to matchup with the Sixers.

Celtics can at least make it interesting.

Both the Bucks and Celtics sans Kyrie, Hayward are not very good anyway.

[MartyConlonOnTheRun]

Read on Twitter

Brett almost drowned

Giannis's Bell is better...

[Sixerscan]

If you think Miami is a better team than the Wizards or Pacers

Wizards have been terrible this year. Pacers are a bit better but you're making me laugh if you think they are better than Philly.

Washington is a much better team than Miami. They are a better team than Indiana too. Their best player played the entire year on a bum knee and missed forty games and they still made the playoffs.

The Wall/Beal/Oubre/Porter/Gortat lineup was among the league’s best in net-rating when the Wizards were not struggling with health. Teams like Indiana, MIL, CLE, maybe even Philly don’t make the playoffs if their best player misses 40 games.

B.Beal, M.Gortat, K.Oubre Jr., O.Porter Jr., J.Wall: +14.8 net in 204 minutes

R.Covington, J.Embiid, J.Redick, D.Saric, B.Simmons: +21.4 in 600 minutes

thanks for playing though.

[dcstanley]

Wizards have been terrible this year. Pacers are a bit better but you're making me laugh if you think they are better than Philly.

Washington is a much better team than Miami. They are a better team than Indiana too. Their best player played the entire year on a bum knee and missed forty games and they still made the playoffs.

The Wall/Beal/Oubre/Porter/Gortat lineup was among the league’s best in net-rating when the Wizards were not struggling with health. Teams like Indiana, MIL, CLE, maybe even Philly don’t make the playoffs if their best player misses 40 games.

B.Beal, M.Gortat, K.Oubre Jr., O.Porter Jr., J.Wall: +14.8 net in 204 minutes

R.Covington, J.Embiid, J.Redick, D.Saric, B.Simmons: +21.4 in 600 minutes

thanks for playing though.

What exactly are you arguing here?

Must have missed where I said when the Wizards weren't struggling with health. Wall aggravated his knee in November and wasn't the same player until he opted for knee surgery late in the season. When Markieff missed the first two weeks of the season and Oubre started in his stead that lineup had the number one net-rating in the league. Brooks didn't really utilize that lineup again for much of the season.

http://www.nbcsports.com/washington/wizards/wizards-starters-have-best-net-rating-any-lineup-nba-even-markieff-morris-returns

[Dupp]

Not sure why we are talking about only the Celtics in here. Both teams can win Saturday.

Both can but the Celtics won’t