Masai Ujiri is Overrated

[Gasolina]

He knows how to identify undervalued talent and has the right developmental staff. He's the perfect GM for NBA markets that free agents avoid.

It's too bad they avoid Toronto, it's a super fun city (4th largest NBA market) with all the big-city trappings and none of the "NYC douche-baggery."

Let me answer this a different way. The Knicks and Nets are better positioned to attract free agents than the Raptors. Not only do Americans have a greater affinity to NYC but also immigrants.

When was the last time the Knicks got a premier free agent, again?

[SelfishPlayer]

It's too bad they avoid Toronto, it's a super fun city (4th largest NBA market) with all the big-city trappings and none of the "NYC douche-baggery."

Let me answer this a different way. The Knicks and Nets are better positioned to attract free agents than the Raptors. Not only do Americans have a greater affinity to NYC but also immigrants.

When was the last time the Knicks got a premier free agent, again?

It has happened. Raptors?

[aboveAverage]

Masai is an excellent judge of talent. He rebuilt that Toronto team with the longest, most athletic dudes in the league. Scottie Barnes was the steal of the draft. Toronto looks almost as formidable on defense as in 2019. Their defensive potential is off the charts.

Wouldn’t surprise me at all to see them surprise people and maybe end up in the ECF.

[Duffman100]

Let me answer this a different way. The Knicks and Nets are better positioned to attract free agents than the Raptors. Not only do Americans have a greater affinity to NYC but also immigrants.

When was the last time the Knicks got a premier free agent, again?

It has happened. Raptors?

Curious… when did it happen?

[mademan]

When was the last time the Knicks got a premier free agent, again?

It has happened. Raptors?

Curious… when did it happen?

You had Melo force his way there, and Melo at the time was a top 10 player. But ya, besides that, nobody has really wanted to play for the Knicks for the last 20 years

[Anticon]

Couldn't keep a championship team together. Couldn't keep Kawhi in town. Massive failures, so, yes, overrated.

Not sure if this is sarcastic...but the reason he's great is he took the risk to build a championship team because he wasn't scared of criticism like this. Lots of teams could have gotten Kawhi but wouldn't take that risk.

[Ontario]

I said yes he is over-rated, only because I feel he is way up on a pedistal, but at teh same time I believe he is one fo teh best 3 GM's in the league. So yes over-rated, but also yes really really good.

My one problem with Masai and the one reason i couldn't be 100% stokedabout the title the Raptors won, (I live in Ottawa ON and the Raptors have always been my second favourite team since they joined the league, no really the only team I follow). Is I couldn't get behind the 1 year rental of Kawhi Leonard, I wish the Raps had run back the core with Derozan with Jonas and the team could have continued to be a top 2 team in the East and legit title contender for another 5-6 years.

I feel the sabotaging the down the road success of the team to steal one quick, (not easy) for sure title was more about winning a ring for Masai himself then for the good of the team. Just my two thoughts, I know some people will say but what if they had convinced KL to stay you had to try to do it, but to me that was fool gold. I love that the team won a title but it pains me that Demar doesn't have a Raptors NBA championship ring.

[Clay Davis]

I said yes he is over-rated, only because I feel he is way up on a pedistal, but at teh same time I believe he is one fo teh best 3 GM's in the league. So yes over-rated, but also yes really really good.

My one problem with Masai and the one reason i couldn't be 100% stokedabout the title the Raptors won, (I live in Ottawa ON and the Raptors have always been my second favourite team since they joined the league, no really the only team I follow). Is I couldn't get behind the 1 year rental of Kawhi Leonard, I wish the Raps had run back the core with Derozan with Jonas and the team could have continued to be a top 2 team in the East and legit title contender for another 5-6 years.

I feel the sabotaging the down the road success of the team to steal one quick, (not easy) for sure title was more about winning a ring for Masai himself then for the good of the team. Just my two thoughts, I know some people will say but what if they had convinced KL to stay you had to try to do it, but to me that was fool gold. I love that the team won a title but it pains me that Demar doesn't have a Raptors NBA championship ring.

I think that, as GM, his job is to maximize the team's chances of getting a ring... Not to craft a particular narrative that has a lower chance of resulting in a championship. Up until Masai it was a really Toronto thing to indulge the egos of less-than-stellar players. You can see it by the characters the Leafs have built statues for lol.

At the end of the day it seems that you wanted Masai to not do things that resulted in "Masai's ring" but to do things that got a player like Demar a ring. I just see it as Toronto's championship.

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[Clay Davis]

Lol ya.. no.. detroit is a terrible city - depress af.

Could be, but Piston's players have more impressive Detroit area mansions than Raptor's players have anywhere in Canada.

Tell me you know nothing about Toronto real estate, without telling me you know nothing about Toronto real estate.

There's a reason why pre covid half the NBA would come to Toronto to party in August. EVERY player that's played in Toronto gushes about the city, the multi culturalism, the nightlife, the 5 star restaurants ....

LOL Toronto crushes Detroit as a city in every possible way.
If you're talking the city and everything it offers to a player ... it's also a better option than Cleveland, Brooklyn, Minnesota, Philly, Chicago, Charlotte, Washington, Indiana, and more.

The ONLY strike against Toronto is if someone wants to be in a warm weather city. But Toronto's weather is the same or better than many of those teams I just mentioned

Hate to say it but Toronto's real estate market is a mess. The homes are extremely over-priced. The average home price here is 1.3 million. 1.3 million gets you a mansion in every city that's not SF, LA, or NYC. Here you could get a bungalow 30 minutes away from downtown. As a bit of an aside, the average home price in Ontario is over 900k lol.

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[LascelleL]

I said yes he is over-rated, only because I feel he is way up on a pedistal, but at teh same time I believe he is one fo teh best 3 GM's in the league. So yes over-rated, but also yes really really good.

My one problem with Masai and the one reason i couldn't be 100% stokedabout the title the Raptors won, (I live in Ottawa ON and the Raptors have always been my second favourite team since they joined the league, no really the only team I follow). Is I couldn't get behind the 1 year rental of Kawhi Leonard, I wish the Raps had run back the core with Derozan with Jonas and the team could have continued to be a top 2 team in the East and legit title contender for another 5-6 years.

I feel the sabotaging the down the road success of the team to steal one quick, (not easy) for sure title was more about winning a ring for Masai himself then for the good of the team. Just my two thoughts, I know some people will say but what if they had convinced KL to stay you had to try to do it, but to me that was fool gold. I love that the team won a title but it pains me that Demar doesn't have a Raptors NBA championship ring.

What? The rental resulted in a championship. You do that deal 10/10.

[DroseReturnChi]

Couldn't keep a championship team together. Couldn't keep Kawhi in town. Massive failures, so, yes, overrated.

yeah i thought toronto was the next big thing when they won but kawhi bolting pretty much shut up their fans for a whole yr until scottie even then most of their fanbase were bashing the poor kid. this is what a small market team do that cant sustain long term success. GS used to be a **** team but being in the usa and warm just made them more valuable than the Lakers and soon knicks.

Thats what I realized location and weather is all what matters over a 100 masais. His counterpart Presti is dealing the same crap he drafted goat team and couldnt win a ring bc it wasnt LA. Masai is now also getting overrated because his competition is getting better. Even sacramento i used to trash hired huge analytics draft wise they are nearly on par and being in california whoever the owner will win a ring very soon. Basketball is one of the simplest sport even myself with college level stat could understand derozan for kawhi was better and kawhis success was a logical one. Like in 2030 all the robots are gonna do the decision, Masai has no real advantage.

Lived in vancouver, i wish vancouver got grizzlies back I think they can compete with LA despite from Canada. What Toronto needs is a owner like bill gates that is ready to be bankrupt rather than being small market conscious of the tax. Even then, I dont think they can beat James Dolan's Knicks long term. masais quotes of admitting mediocreness after loss of kawhi was pretty much the final blow.

[anatomicbomb]

I said yes he is over-rated, only because I feel he is way up on a pedistal, but at teh same time I believe he is one fo teh best 3 GM's in the league. So yes over-rated, but also yes really really good.

My one problem with Masai and the one reason i couldn't be 100% stokedabout the title the Raptors won, (I live in Ottawa ON and the Raptors have always been my second favourite team since they joined the league, no really the only team I follow). Is I couldn't get behind the 1 year rental of Kawhi Leonard, I wish the Raps had run back the core with Derozan with Jonas and the team could have continued to be a top 2 team in the East and legit title contender for another 5-6 years.

I feel the sabotaging the down the road success of the team to steal one quick, (not easy) for sure title was more about winning a ring for Masai himself then for the good of the team. Just my two thoughts, I know some people will say but what if they had convinced KL to stay you had to try to do it, but to me that was fool gold. I love that the team won a title but it pains me that Demar doesn't have a Raptors NBA championship ring.

I hate that DeMar and JV didn't win rings, too. And at times I agree that Masai gets too much credit, namely that there doesn't seem to be a lot of credit going to other people in the organization. But I feel the need to point out that the Kawhi trade wasn't made with it being a sure thing that he would leave.

While there was always a good chance that Kawhi would leave, the Raptors felt they had a real shot at retaining him, especially if they won a title. They did everything to cater to Kawhi's interests in the aims of getting him to re-sign, but that did hamstring the team a bit for the next couple of seasons. However, between the year in Tampa, the improving play of other recent acquisitions like Achiuwa and Trent, and the rough year and good fortune that led to Barnes, Masai and his staff have managed to turn a competitive but aging team into a competitive but youthful team, which is pretty damn impressive given the circumstances and risks involved.

[Quattro]

Couldn't keep a championship team together. Couldn't keep Kawhi in town. Massive failures, so, yes, overrated.

Even then, I dont think they can beat James Dolan's Knicks long term.

You know, As I was reading your wall of text I was asking myself “why am I wasting my time reading this nonsense”… and then I came to this sentence and instantly it all became worth it.

I’m now preparing myself for the decade of mediocrity ahead while a well oiled machine like James Dolans Knicks run roughshod over the Atlantic division and the NBA.

[User_denied]

Reading this thread feels like I'm reading two separate conversations. Some are thinking of Masai as an individual, some are just talking about him as the organization and comparing those organizations as apples to apples.

When you break it down and look at the inherit disadvantages he's had since joining the Raptors (Cold weather Market, different country, drafting at a higher average position then almost any other team in the league) he's done an amazing job at keeping this team competitive. Has any team routinely beat out their projected win totals as much as the Raptors?
If your calling him anything less then top 3 in league your underrating him.

[TOStateofMind]

Realgm thread aging terribly? no waaay

[Ontario]

I said yes he is over-rated, only because I feel he is way up on a pedistal, but at teh same time I believe he is one fo teh best 3 GM's in the league. So yes over-rated, but also yes really really good.

My one problem with Masai and the one reason i couldn't be 100% stokedabout the title the Raptors won, (I live in Ottawa ON and the Raptors have always been my second favourite team since they joined the league, no really the only team I follow). Is I couldn't get behind the 1 year rental of Kawhi Leonard, I wish the Raps had run back the core with Derozan with Jonas and the team could have continued to be a top 2 team in the East and legit title contender for another 5-6 years.

I feel the sabotaging the down the road success of the team to steal one quick, (not easy) for sure title was more about winning a ring for Masai himself then for the good of the team. Just my two thoughts, I know some people will say but what if they had convinced KL to stay you had to try to do it, but to me that was fool gold. I love that the team won a title but it pains me that Demar doesn't have a Raptors NBA championship ring.

I think that, as GM, his job is to maximize the team's chances of getting a ring... Not to craft a particular narrative that has a lower chance of resulting in a championship. Up until Masai it was a really Toronto thing to indulge the egos of less-than-stellar players. You can see it by the characters the Leafs have built statues for lol.

At the end of the day it seems that you wanted Masai to not do things that resulted in "Masai's ring" but to do things that got a player like Demar a ring. I just see it as Toronto's championship.

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I feel they could have had a natural window of 3-5 years with a mostly homegorwn team that could have been legitimate title contenders. I would have loved to have seen how that played out, it would have been really special. I suspect they genuinley win at least one in that scenario but whose to say.

[Tripod]

Couldn't keep a championship team together. Couldn't keep Kawhi in town. Massive failures, so, yes, overrated.

yeah i thought toronto was the next big thing when they won but kawhi bolting pretty much shut up their fans for a whole yr until scottie even then most of their fanbase were bashing the poor kid. this is what a small market team do that cant sustain long term success. GS used to be a **** team but being in the usa and warm just made them more valuable than the Lakers and soon knicks.

Thats what I realized location and weather is all what matters over a 100 masais. His counterpart Presti is dealing the same crap he drafted goat team and couldnt win a ring bc it wasnt LA. Masai is now also getting overrated because his competition is getting better. Even sacramento i used to trash hired huge analytics draft wise they are nearly on par and being in california whoever the owner will win a ring very soon. Basketball is one of the simplest sport even myself with college level stat could understand derozan for kawhi was better and kawhis success was a logical one. Like in 2030 all the robots are gonna do the decision, Masai has no real advantage.

Lived in vancouver, i wish vancouver got grizzlies back I think they can compete with LA despite from Canada. What Toronto needs is a owner like bill gates that is ready to be bankrupt rather than being small market conscious of the tax. Even then, I dont think they can beat James Dolan's Knicks long term. masais quotes of admitting mediocreness after loss of kawhi was pretty much the final blow.

That is wrong though.

After Kawhi left, the Raps had a better win% the following year at 736%. They were 53-19. They beat the Nets in 4 in the 1st rd, lost to Boston i.in 7 games in 2nd rd.....2 games they lost by 5 ptd or less.

Then last year, they had to play all year on the road. Not sure people realize how hard that was. And even then, they were playing ok until smoked with covid. Then shut things down instead of fighting for a play in.

People 100% should trust MU and his judgement. He has made the Raps competitive every year and is building toward a 2nd Championship try.

[maternal85]

I said yes he is over-rated, only because I feel he is way up on a pedistal, but at teh same time I believe he is one fo teh best 3 GM's in the league. So yes over-rated, but also yes really really good.

My one problem with Masai and the one reason i couldn't be 100% stokedabout the title the Raptors won, (I live in Ottawa ON and the Raptors have always been my second favourite team since they joined the league, no really the only team I follow). Is I couldn't get behind the 1 year rental of Kawhi Leonard, I wish the Raps had run back the core with Derozan with Jonas and the team could have continued to be a top 2 team in the East and legit title contender for another 5-6 years.

I feel the sabotaging the down the road success of the team to steal one quick, (not easy) for sure title was more about winning a ring for Masai himself then for the good of the team. Just my two thoughts, I know some people will say but what if they had convinced KL to stay you had to try to do it, but to me that was fool gold. I love that the team won a title but it pains me that Demar doesn't have a Raptors NBA championship ring.

Wait you're serious ? So you wanted the Raptors to be the next Pacers, supersonic, Kings, etc ? A very good and successful team, who would make conference finals bur never win a title ? Do you see Reggie Miller's, Ewing, Jermaine O'Neal, etc faces when they talk about almost winning a title ? Every GM's mandates is to win a title if they can, not to be good for 5 to 6. This post is comical.

[Slim Charlez]

Couldn't keep a championship team together. Couldn't keep Kawhi in town. Massive failures, so, yes, overrated.

yeah i thought toronto was the next big thing when they won but kawhi bolting pretty much shut up their fans for a whole yr until scottie even then most of their fanbase were bashing the poor kid. this is what a small market team do that cant sustain long term success. GS used to be a **** team but being in the usa and warm just made them more valuable than the Lakers and soon knicks.

Thats what I realized location and weather is all what matters over a 100 masais. His counterpart Presti is dealing the same crap he drafted goat team and couldnt win a ring bc it wasnt LA. Masai is now also getting overrated because his competition is getting better. Even sacramento i used to trash hired huge analytics draft wise they are nearly on par and being in california whoever the owner will win a ring very soon. Basketball is one of the simplest sport even myself with college level stat could understand derozan for kawhi was better and kawhis success was a logical one. Like in 2030 all the robots are gonna do the decision, Masai has no real advantage.

Lived in vancouver, i wish vancouver got grizzlies back I think they can compete with LA despite from Canada. What Toronto needs is a owner like bill gates that is ready to be bankrupt rather than being small market conscious of the tax. Even then, I dont think they can beat James Dolan's Knicks long term. masais quotes of admitting mediocreness after loss of kawhi was pretty much the final blow.

Small market team? Isn't Toronto like the 5th largest city in North America?

[maternal85]

I said yes he is over-rated, only because I feel he is way up on a pedistal, but at teh same time I believe he is one fo teh best 3 GM's in the league. So yes over-rated, but also yes really really good.

My one problem with Masai and the one reason i couldn't be 100% stokedabout the title the Raptors won, (I live in Ottawa ON and the Raptors have always been my second favourite team since they joined the league, no really the only team I follow). Is I couldn't get behind the 1 year rental of Kawhi Leonard, I wish the Raps had run back the core with Derozan with Jonas and the team could have continued to be a top 2 team in the East and legit title contender for another 5-6 years.

I feel the sabotaging the down the road success of the team to steal one quick, (not easy) for sure title was more about winning a ring for Masai himself then for the good of the team. Just my two thoughts, I know some people will say but what if they had convinced KL to stay you had to try to do it, but to me that was fool gold. I love that the team won a title but it pains me that Demar doesn't have a Raptors NBA championship ring.

I think that, as GM, his job is to maximize the team's chances of getting a ring... Not to craft a particular narrative that has a lower chance of resulting in a championship. Up until Masai it was a really Toronto thing to indulge the egos of less-than-stellar players. You can see it by the characters the Leafs have built statues for lol.

At the end of the day it seems that you wanted Masai to not do things that resulted in "Masai's ring" but to do things that got a player like Demar a ring. I just see it as Toronto's championship.

Sent from my moto g(8) power lite using RealGM mobile app

I feel they could have had a natural window of 3-5 years with a mostly homegorwn team that could have been legitimate title contenders. I would have loved to have seen how that played out, it would have been really special. I suspect they genuinley win at least one in that scenario but whose to say.

The trailblazers thought the same thing with Stoudamire, Rasheed Wallace, Sabonis, Rider, etc back in the days. They won nothing. You always take the sure thing over potential. Always.