76ers back to fining Ben Simmons

[Jeremy Lin 7]

Simmons has gone real low to be faking mental health issues.

[TdotRap4Lyfe]

Yeah, sure. Let's pretend that athletes who struggle with mental health are taken seriously. Let's pretend that Royce White was never treated like **** by this league and this forum back in 12-13. Let's also pretend that no one has brought up DeRozan's and Love's mental health issues when they criticize them. Let's just pretend that all is well and rosy here and that there isn't a stigma against people suffering with mental health issues.

In fairness Royce White refused to fly which is a pretty big problem. He also had no NBA experience or reputation to lean on. I am sensitive to his mental health issues however there is a practical element to it. Why should a franchise have to deal with his baggage if they don’t want to?

He refused to fly for a very valid reason, though. It harmed his mental health. This was well-known before he was drafted. The Rockets still elected to draft him and then proceeded to not give a crap about these issues. If you don't want to deal with that "baggage", as you put it, then why do you draft the guy?

After a while, White also refused to play home games. He didn't even want to drive locally by bus to certain road games if my memory serves me correctly.

[Nuntius]

In fairness Royce White refused to fly which is a pretty big problem. He also had no NBA experience or reputation to lean on. I am sensitive to his mental health issues however there is a practical element to it. Why should a franchise have to deal with his baggage if they don’t want to?

He refused to fly for a very valid reason, though. It harmed his mental health. This was well-known before he was drafted. The Rockets still elected to draft him and then proceeded to not give a crap about these issues. If you don't want to deal with that "baggage", as you put it, then why do you draft the guy?

After a while, White also refused to play home games. He didn't even want to drive locally by bus to certain road games if my memory serves me correctly.

White wanted the NBA to institute a league-wide mental health policy. He wanted a league-wide protocol for dealing with these situations. The league refused to do that. White also said that team executives shouldn't be able to make decisions regarding mental health without the appropriate training but that seemingly still fell on deaf ears. He and the Rockets tried to make it work a number of times but it never lasted. The league just never took this issue seriously enough as White wasn't a very high profile player.

Let's hope that they pay more attention now.

[DusterBuster]

Having to meet with team physician is harming Simmons' mental health.

Don't see Sixers ever winning this one in arbitration if challenged. They cannot prove that Simmons is not suffering from mental health issues.

Of course, I do think Simmons / Rich Paul is faking this whole mental health episode.

Exactly why I think, like you, that this is BS and totally a game by Simmons/Paul. They can literally claim ANY intervention or oversight of Ben's therapy is detrimental to his mental health and there's **** all the team or NBA can do about it.

I got slammed in the previous thread for suggesting the team has every right to make sure he's actually going to a legit therapist for the mental issues he's claiming and not some therapist who's just there to collect and easy paycheck while the two sit in a room for an hour on their phones or something like that.

If he's claiming mental health problems and he's actively working on that with a professional who's also trying to improve said mental health issue, then the team has every right to have some level of confirmation that what is claimed to be happening is actually taking place if the player wants to continue to collect his paycheck while undergoing treatment.

Otherwise it's not better than someone defrauding an employer with fake / overly-extended workmans comp. Employers regularly hire PI's to investigate employees when recovery from injury is taking an excessive amount of time. The Sixers deserve some level of confirmation that Ben is actively trying to improve his mental health.

Sixers ABSOLUTELY have the right to be kept up to date with how things are progressing. ZERO argument there. Although its funny that if its a psychiatrist of Ben's choosing, there's apparently a significant risk of the psychiatrist "just being there for the pay cheque", but we should have ZERO doubts about the Philly staff's motives, right?

He should be free to choose who he wants, but the team should be able to vet his choice and make sure he’s actually going to try and make progress in a good faith way. It’s their money on the line… they shouldn’t have to pay someone when they aren’t working for them.

[Tomjas]

Trading him now gives into this behaviour.
It sets a precedent. I'd rather they wait it out to the trade deadline or the draft, losing a years pay should be enough for Ben to "want to" play.

Nobody knows the truth here

As a Sixers fan, it was obvious that something that was going on with him well before the playoffs

[TdotRap4Lyfe]

Trading him now gives into this behaviour.
It sets a precedent. I'd rather they wait it out to the trade deadline or the draft, losing a years pay should be enough for Ben to "want to" play.

Nobody knows the truth here

As a Sixers fan, it was obvious that something that was going on with him well before the playoffs

I think it goes back to Morey almost trading Ben for Harden. I feel he took it personally. But that's just my take on it. He seemed fine before Morey came to town.

[DroseReturnChi]

looks like dame is intentionally tanking his value to become a sixer. morey might have to rethink abt dame if hes faking or really a washed up player in his mid 30s. as of now, i wouldnt even trade simmons maybe get one of tatum/brown who are young and entering prime.

[Tomjas]

Trading him now gives into this behaviour.
It sets a precedent. I'd rather they wait it out to the trade deadline or the draft, losing a years pay should be enough for Ben to "want to" play.

Nobody knows the truth here

As a Sixers fan, it was obvious that something that was going on with him well before the playoffs

I think it goes back to Morey almost trading Ben for Harden. I feel he took it personally. But that's just my take on it. He seemed fine before Morey came to town.

Read into the situation with his sister

That’s when this started

Took time off from team & form cratered thereafter

Simmons is not blameless (obviously) but something has been going on away from court

[Ryoga Hibiki]

This isn't about defending billionaires or the Sixers, it's about making sure someone doesn't use mental health as a ploy in bad faith, so that other athletes who struggle with mental health are actually taken seriously.

Yeah, sure. Let's pretend that athletes who struggle with mental health are taken seriously. Let's pretend that Royce White was never treated like **** by this league and this forum back in 12-13. Let's also pretend that no one has brought up DeRozan's and Love's mental health issues when they criticize them. Let's just pretend that all is well and rosy here and that there isn't a stigma against people suffering with mental health issues.

Yes, and Simmons is erasing every step in a good direction that has been made

[axeman23]

Exactly why I think, like you, that this is BS and totally a game by Simmons/Paul. They can literally claim ANY intervention or oversight of Ben's therapy is detrimental to his mental health and there's **** all the team or NBA can do about it.

I got slammed in the previous thread for suggesting the team has every right to make sure he's actually going to a legit therapist for the mental issues he's claiming and not some therapist who's just there to collect and easy paycheck while the two sit in a room for an hour on their phones or something like that.

If he's claiming mental health problems and he's actively working on that with a professional who's also trying to improve said mental health issue, then the team has every right to have some level of confirmation that what is claimed to be happening is actually taking place if the player wants to continue to collect his paycheck while undergoing treatment.

Otherwise it's not better than someone defrauding an employer with fake / overly-extended workmans comp. Employers regularly hire PI's to investigate employees when recovery from injury is taking an excessive amount of time. The Sixers deserve some level of confirmation that Ben is actively trying to improve his mental health.

Sixers ABSOLUTELY have the right to be kept up to date with how things are progressing. ZERO argument there. Although its funny that if its a psychiatrist of Ben's choosing, there's apparently a significant risk of the psychiatrist "just being there for the pay cheque", but we should have ZERO doubts about the Philly staff's motives, right?

He should be free to choose who he wants, but the team should be able to vet his choice and make sure he’s actually going to try and make progress in a good faith way. It’s their money on the line… they shouldn’t have to pay someone when they aren’t working for them.

Yeah, I agree that's reasonable for both parties.

[Lalouie]

i never could understand why supposed mental helth issues and penalty fines were ever mutually exclusive. i think philly stopped fining ben to try and iron stuff out. this here tells it ain't happening in our life time

[Asianiac_24]

Im not sure why you think an actual diagnosis is required? Or you, the sixers organization, the public, anyone but Ben and his therapist are entitled to one?

All they need to know is that he's seeing his therapist (which could be a Psychologist, Social Worker, Psychotherapist, Psychiatrist). It doesn't say anywhere otherwise. And for you to insinuate otherwise, Sixerscan, is just taking us in another circle.

They can spin this however they want via the media, and the NBPA will absolutely go to bat for him. Please, continue going to bar for the billionaire, and the rights of employers seeing the diagnosis of anyone who has the courage to get the help they need. Regardless of what you think of Ben, this sets a precedent.

If I have any type of serious illness, I dont want my boss to know if they dont need to. I'm sure I'm not the only person who feels that way.

In this case, the sixers dont need to. It doesn't say anything anywhere in Woj tweets about insurance. You folks are the ones bringing that narrative up.

The fines stopped after Alaa made the Giddey comment. The fines started today after the Sarver stuff broke, and the Kyrie stuff is breaking. Easy to sneak stuff if in from a public relations point of view, since the pause in fines were never part of the plan. It's clear they were just waiting for the right time to let the Sixers hate die down, and get the anti-Ben narrative going.

Given the situation and the events leading up to this mental illness claim, its not a surprise people are questioning his claims. Under normal circumstances, most people usually don't question it. If I call off work for a couple days because I claim to be sick, have covid, or however else, under normal circumstances no one would question it.

However, if I got into a huge battle with my boss/manager, and when the company starts fining me because I stopped showing up to work, I claim mental illness? That is highly, highly questionable. Not saying the claims are false, but in this case you'd need to provide proof.

[cursedsportsfan]

He has zero value. He’s not worth all this trouble. They should make an example out of him and void his contract.

No team will offer him a max contract. He’ll be lucky to get a one year prove it type of deal.

You're delusional if you believe that. He would easily get a one year prove it deal.

[VDT]

Im curious what the best case scenario is in the eyes of the 6ers.

Are they hoping Simmons all of a sudden changes his mind and wants to play for them again and is happy to be a 6er again?
Are they hoping Simmons puts his head down and plays hard so he can rebuild his trade value so they can trade him for a star?

Neither one of those things seem reasonable at all in my opinion. Look at what he is currently doing to avoid playing, he is going to milk this "mental health" thing for as long as he can. And if it gets to the point where he is forced to play, there is no chance he plays at 100% effort.

Opposing teams know this as well. They arent going to want to bail out Philly and give them a good offer for a trade. When they know they can continue to sit back and watch his trade value continue to tank and they can get him for a very cheap price. I just dont see the path that Morey sees where he will be able to trade Simmons at peak Simmons value. Those days are long gone.

Imo, what Morey is after is pretty clear. Wait until a star/superstar asks out and try to get him with Simmons +picks. That would be his plan even if Simmons wanted to stay. If in the meantime a team wants to overpay willingly or if Simmons wants to come back and play he is fine with that also i guess, although its probably not very likely. What he is not going to do, is trade Simmons for spare parts as that makes no sense .

[LAL1947]

He should be free to choose who he wants, but the team should be able to vet his choice and make sure he’s actually going to try and make progress in a good faith way. It’s their money on the line… they shouldn’t have to pay someone when they aren’t working for them.

That's a good point and one that might be getting ignored a little in all of the debate. When a player is seeking treatment for an issue, this should be done with the goal of getting back into condition to play for the team he's under contract with. The team is entitled to know not only about what the issue is but also steps that are being taken towards resolution, and the timeline for a return (if or when one is known). And if a player's goal is not to play for the team he's under contract with, then he should ask to have his contract voided or bought out.

[garrick]

Yeah, sure. Let's pretend that athletes who struggle with mental health are taken seriously. Let's pretend that Royce White was never treated like **** by this league and this forum back in 12-13. Let's also pretend that no one has brought up DeRozan's and Love's mental health issues when they criticize them. Let's just pretend that all is well and rosy here and that there isn't a stigma against people suffering with mental health issues.

In fairness Royce White refused to fly which is a pretty big problem. He also had no NBA experience or reputation to lean on. I am sensitive to his mental health issues however there is a practical element to it. Why should a franchise have to deal with his baggage if they don’t want to?

He refused to fly for a very valid reason, though. It harmed his mental health. This was well-known before he was drafted. The Rockets still elected to draft him and then proceeded to not give a crap about these issues. If you don't want to deal with that "baggage", as you put it, then why do you draft the guy?

If he couldn't fly why did he enter his name into the draft?

He obviously had severe mental issues that prevented him from performing his job as an athlete so the Sixers were well within their rights to waive him.

The league did not owe it to him to ensure that he remained in the league.

[LAL1947]

In fairness Royce White refused to fly which is a pretty big problem. He also had no NBA experience or reputation to lean on. I am sensitive to his mental health issues however there is a practical element to it. Why should a franchise have to deal with his baggage if they don’t want to?

He refused to fly for a very valid reason, though. It harmed his mental health. This was well-known before he was drafted. The Rockets still elected to draft him and then proceeded to not give a crap about these issues. If you don't want to deal with that "baggage", as you put it, then why do you draft the guy?

If he couldn't fly why did he enter his name into the draft?

He obviously had severe mental issues that prevented him from performing his job as an athlete so the Sixers were well within their rights to waive him.

The league did not owe it to him to ensure that he remained in the league.

Wiki says, "In 2017, after a hiatus from professional basketball, White reemerged to play his first full pro season in Canada". Whoever wrote that blurb deserves props for their choice of words because "reemerged" sounds mysterious and leaves something to the imagination. See... I'm not sure how the emergence happened but teleportation must be real.

[Nuntius]

This isn't about defending billionaires or the Sixers, it's about making sure someone doesn't use mental health as a ploy in bad faith, so that other athletes who struggle with mental health are actually taken seriously.

Yeah, sure. Let's pretend that athletes who struggle with mental health are taken seriously. Let's pretend that Royce White was never treated like **** by this league and this forum back in 12-13. Let's also pretend that no one has brought up DeRozan's and Love's mental health issues when they criticize them. Let's just pretend that all is well and rosy here and that there isn't a stigma against people suffering with mental health issues.

Yes, and Simmons is erasing every step in a good direction that has been made

Nah. Only the people who want that progress to be erased are doing that and they would have been doing that with or without this incident. Simmons is just a convenient excuse.

[Nuntius]

In fairness Royce White refused to fly which is a pretty big problem. He also had no NBA experience or reputation to lean on. I am sensitive to his mental health issues however there is a practical element to it. Why should a franchise have to deal with his baggage if they don’t want to?

He refused to fly for a very valid reason, though. It harmed his mental health. This was well-known before he was drafted. The Rockets still elected to draft him and then proceeded to not give a crap about these issues. If you don't want to deal with that "baggage", as you put it, then why do you draft the guy?

If he couldn't fly why did he enter his name into the draft?

Because he was a talented basketball player? What kind of question is that?

He obviously had severe mental issues that prevented him from performing his job as an athlete so the Sixers were well within their rights to waive him.

The league did not owe it to him to ensure that he remained in the league.

The league owes a safe working environment to EVERY.SINGLE.ONE of their employees (be them players, coaches, trainers, staffers et cetera). Refusing to have a league-wide mental health policy in place is antithetical to creating that safe working environment. The league botched that situation hard and they only have themselves to blame.

In general, mental health awareness needs to increase significantly in the sports world. Most people still do not take it seriously, as evidenced by this thread.

[JN61]

Simmons has gone real low to be faking mental health issues.

Indeed. You don't go from the baby Ben into mental heath issues in couple of days after team starts fining you before start of the regular season. It is really low and media needs to call him out continuously and honestly at some point league as well since it is not okay.