Danny Ainge just took the whole NBA execs to school

[dautjazz]

Ainge got GREAT returns for Mitchell and Gobert who wouldnt have gotten any better losing in the first and 2nd round year after year. The issue is.. he's an awful drafter, only trades if he's winning the trade by a wide margin and hasnt signed good players, to embrace the tank. He really needs a good co-GM to manage the other parts that hes not great at.

How is he an awful at drafting? He traded the first pick for the third and a future first, to draft Tatum. He also drafted Jaylen Brown. He's done a pretty good job with his picks for Utah last summer getting Collier and Flip. He's gotten good returns for Mitchell, Gobert, Conley and Royce. Many of the assets from those trades are future FRPs, so it's going to take a little time for them to really be good again.

Oh he also drafted Rondo. The guy is one the best GMs the NBA has ever seen.

[Dan Z]

Ainge got GREAT returns for Mitchell and Gobert who wouldnt have gotten any better losing in the first and 2nd round year after year. The issue is.. he's an awful drafter, only trades if he's winning the trade by a wide margin and hasnt signed good players, to embrace the tank. He really needs a good co-GM to manage the other parts that hes not great at.

How is he an awful at drafting? He traded the first pick for the third and a future first, to draft Tatum. He also drafted Jaylen Brown. He's done a pretty good job with his picks for Utah last summer getting Collier and Flip. He's gotten good returns for Mitchell, Gobert, Conley and Royce. Many of the assets from those trades are future FRPs, so it's going to take a little time for them to really be good again.

Oh he also drafted Rondo. The guy is one the best GMs the NBA has ever seen.

He also drafted Aaron Nesmith.

[Upperclass]

The Tatum flip was obvious to anyone who knew basketball.
Jaylen Brown was the 3rd best wing prospect in that draft.

He passed on Giannis, didnt trade an asset for Luka when he had ALL the assets, drafted James Young, drafted the exact same player in Langford.. threw away multiple picks in the 2016 draft.. recently drafted Cody Williams and so and so on.. he has hits but he has some major misses

[myronbolitar]

The Tatum flip was obvious to anyone who knew basketball.
Jaylen Brown was the 3rd best wing prospect in that draft.

He passed on Giannis, didnt trade an asset for Luka when he had ALL the assets, drafted James Young, drafted the exact same player in Langford.. threw away multiple picks in the 2016 draft.. recently drafted Cody Williams and so and so on.. he has hits but he has some major misses

Almost all revisionist history. The Tatum trade - known as the Fultz trade at the time - was questioned by people. The JB pick was REALLY questioned by people. Yup, he passed on Giannis...big miss. The Celts were trying to get Kevin Love at the time, and there was some speculation they liked Olynyk...oh well. In 2016, they had positioned themselves for two max contracts (Horford was one, they tried to get Durant with the other) and they couldn't roster 3 rookies...Yabusele has turned into a decent player though.

His last Celtics picks in Nesmith and Payton Pritchard (16 and 26 or something) are looking pretty good too.

[badpotato]

Ainge really needed ping-pong balls to fall his way this year, didn't happen and he's 3 years into the rebuild with nothing to show for it.

He's got a team that is too good to lose organically, so Utah needs to resort to distasteful tactics in order to keep losing games and at the same time everyone knows that the team is not good enough for more than lucky play-in apperance.

In the meantime, value of the assets he decided to hold on to went down, especially for Markannen and soon-to-be-paid Kessler.
With no Flagg it looks like next season will just be a repeat of the previous and I wonder if fans and ownership can really stomach that.

[Raps in 4]

Ainge got GREAT returns for Mitchell and Gobert who wouldnt have gotten any better losing in the first and 2nd round year after year. The issue is.. he's an awful drafter, only trades if he's winning the trade by a wide margin and hasnt signed good players, to embrace the tank. He really needs a good co-GM to manage the other parts that hes not great at.

How is he an awful at drafting? He traded the first pick for the third and a future first, to draft Tatum. He also drafted Jaylen Brown. He's done a pretty good job with his picks for Utah last summer getting Collier and Flip. He's gotten good returns for Mitchell, Gobert, Conley and Royce. Many of the assets from those trades are future FRPs, so it's going to take a little time for them to really be good again.

Oh he also drafted Rondo. The guy is one the best GMs the NBA has ever seen.

He also drafted Aaron Nesmith.

Ochai has been pretty solid for the Raptors as well. He's solid at drafting (not on the level of someone like Masai, Presti, Pop, or Riley, but solid). His biggest weakness is asset management. He holds onto some pieces for too long, while giving up on other players too early.

[ropjhk]

Utah is going through an extreme rebuild. Ainge got good potential value in draft picks with all the trades he has made. The teardown phase was completed last year and now Ainge has to draft well and use his assets to build up a contender.

[Ice Man]

We don't know if any NBA GM is good at drafting. The sample size is always too small; it's like trying to identify skilled investment manager based on a few years' worth of data. GarPax were allegedly great, until they were not great, by picking Marquis Teague, Tony Snell, Doug McDermott, Bobby Portis (alright, he was OK), and Denzel Washington in 5 straight drafts. Danny was allegedly insightful, until not insightful. And so forth.

It's all guesswork on the part of fans, as nobody's results are statistically significant.

[TheAlchemist]

Aingie really needed ping-pong balls to fall his way this year, didn't happen and he's 3 years into the rebuild with nothing to show for it.

He's got a team that is too good to lose organically, so Utah needs to resort to distasteful tactics in order to keep losing games and at the same time everyone knows that the team is not good enough for more than lucky play-in apperance.

In the meantime, value of the assets he decided to hold on to went down, especially for Markannen and soon-to-be-paid Kessler.
With no Flagg it looks like next season will just be a repeat of the previous and I wonder if fans and ownership can really stomach that.

I was about to say,

He traded away Gobert and Mitchell, both who are doing really great and having deep runs in the playoffs.

I definitely don't think the plan is going good. He should've traded Lauri for the best bid and kept trading players until they got some franchise altering talent.

I don't even know if the 100% bottoming out system works anymore.

[shi-woo]

The Tatum flip was obvious to anyone who knew basketball.
Jaylen Brown was the 3rd best wing prospect in that draft.

He passed on Giannis, didnt trade an asset for Luka when he had ALL the assets, drafted James Young, drafted the exact same player in Langford.. threw away multiple picks in the 2016 draft.. recently drafted Cody Williams and so and so on.. he has hits but he has some major misses

Didn't draft Giannis or trade for Luka? What in the world...

Brown was a complete reach, and no one was thinking about that Tatum flip, literally no one, it was shocking not to take Fultz #1 before we all knew about the yips and accident.

Dude drafted Rajon Rondo, Tony Allen, Big Baby, Big Al Jefferson, Terry Rozier, Tatum, Brown, Grant Williams, Nesmith, Olynyk, Bradley, Powe, Smart....

Ainge has been a fantastic drafter, and has missed on some late 20 picks...Dude has one of the better records drafting in the NBA considering he usually drafts late in the draft. He's one of the best talent evaluators of the modern era for sure.

Finding All-NBA dudes in Tatum, Brown, Rondo, and Al was solid, especially the later two given their draft slots.
Smart, Tony, and Bradley made All-Def

So many starters and guys that were integral parts to our team or other teams runs. The dude drafted and put together the core to two championship teams and 4 finals appearances . He's probably better at drafting than most GMs

[Upperclass]

The Tatum flip was obvious to anyone who knew basketball.
Jaylen Brown was the 3rd best wing prospect in that draft.

He passed on Giannis, didnt trade an asset for Luka when he had ALL the assets, drafted James Young, drafted the exact same player in Langford.. threw away multiple picks in the 2016 draft.. recently drafted Cody Williams and so and so on.. he has hits but he has some major misses

Didn't draft Giannis or trade for Luka? What in the world...

Brown was a complete reach, and no one was thinking about that Tatum flip, literally no one, it was shocking not to take Fultz #1 before we all knew about the yips and accident.

Dude drafted Rajon Rondo, Tony Allen, Big Baby, Big Al Jefferson, Terry Rozier, Tatum, Brown, Grant Williams, Nesmith, Olynyk, Bradley, Powe, Smart....

Ainge has been a fantastic drafter, and has missed on some late 20 picks...Dude has one of the better records drafting in the NBA considering he usually drafts late in the draft. He's one of the best talent evaluators of the modern era for sure.

Finding All-NBA dudes in Tatum, Brown, Rondo, and Al was solid, especially the later two given their draft slots.
Smart, Tony, and Bradley made All-Def

So many starters and guys that were integral parts to our team or other teams runs. The dude drafted and put together the core to two championship teams and 4 finals appearances . He's probably better at drafting than most GMs

He's had all of that talent and the only finals appearance was with a stacked 2008 team. Some of the players drafted also got much better when they went to other teams.. ie Rozier.

Jaylen Brown was not some great reach.. The Celts were a playoff team that had ZERO wings returning aside from Crowder and a small backcourt.. taking Brown was the only lotto projected wing.. his selection was logical.

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/nba-draft-big-board-top-150-player-rankings-go-through-shuffle-after-combine/
https://www.si.com/nba/2016/03/16/nba-draft-big-board-ben-simmons-brandon-ingram-dragan-bender

Ainge is the most overrated GM in recent league history.

[PurpleGreenGold]

Ainge got GREAT returns for Mitchell and Gobert who wouldnt have gotten any better losing in the first and 2nd round year after year. The issue is.. he's an awful drafter, only trades if he's winning the trade by a wide margin and hasnt signed good players, to embrace the tank. He really needs a good co-GM to manage the other parts that hes not great at.

He Drafted the Celtics championship core. WRONG

To be fair, Danny is the President of Operations for the Jazz and not the GM. The Jazz have a GM named Justin Zanick who is in charge of all the day-to-day GM duties. He has a win/lose job. When the Jazz do something stupid, Danny gets the blame. When the Jazz do something right, Danny gets the credit. It's a thankless role.

[ishoy123]

Aingie really needed ping-pong balls to fall his way this year, didn't happen and he's 3 years into the rebuild with nothing to show for it.

He's got a team that is too good to lose organically, so Utah needs to resort to distasteful tactics in order to keep losing games and at the same time everyone knows that the team is not good enough for more than lucky play-in apperance.

In the meantime, value of the assets he decided to hold on to went down, especially for Markannen and soon-to-be-paid Kessler.
With no Flagg it looks like next season will just be a repeat of the previous and I wonder if fans and ownership can really stomach that.

I was about to say,

He traded away Gobert and Mitchell, both who are doing really great and having deep runs in the playoffs.

I definitely don't think the plan is going good. He should've traded Lauri for the best bid and kept trading players until they got some franchise altering talent.

I don't even know if the 100% bottoming out system works anymore.

This is the Sam Hinkie rule. It's really easy to trade all your stuff for picks. It's much harder to actually build a successful team.

[brackdan70]

The Tatum flip was obvious to anyone who knew basketball.
Jaylen Brown was the 3rd best wing prospect in that draft.

He passed on Giannis, didnt trade an asset for Luka when he had ALL the assets, drafted James Young, drafted the exact same player in Langford.. threw away multiple picks in the 2016 draft.. recently drafted Cody Williams and so and so on.. he has hits but he has some major misses

Everyone has hits and misses. There are better drafters than Ainge for sure but he is above average.
Lots of GMs passed on Giannis. Olynyk has outplayed his draft position, so yeah that sucks that he didn’t draft Giannis, but he did well.

[Wingy]

GarPax were allegedly great, until they were not great, by picking Marquis Teague, Tony Snell, Doug McDermott, Bobby Portis (alright, he was OK), and Denzel Washington in 5 straight drafts.

I can only wish we drafted Denzel Washington. Even at 14, I immediately knew that was an awful pick and complained out loud…to myself.

[Catchall]

GarPax were allegedly great, until they were not great, by picking Marquis Teague, Tony Snell, Doug McDermott, Bobby Portis (alright, he was OK), and Denzel Washington in 5 straight drafts.

I can only wish we drafted Denzel Washington. Even at 14, I immediately knew that was an awful pick and complained out loud…to myself.

Denzel Washington is a famous actor. Denzel Valentine is a washed out basketball player.

[Wingy]

GarPax were allegedly great, until they were not great, by picking Marquis Teague, Tony Snell, Doug McDermott, Bobby Portis (alright, he was OK), and Denzel Washington in 5 straight drafts.

I can only wish we drafted Denzel Washington. Even at 14, I immediately knew that was an awful pick and complained out loud…to myself.

Denzel Washington is a famous actor. Denzel Valentine is a washed out basketball player.

Thanks for the tip.

[Anticon]

The metric for Ainge is can he rebuild in a similar way to Houston, OKC, and Cleveland, all of whom have had strong success in relatively short periods. He has about 2 years left to demonstrate that.

[dc]

The metric for Ainge is can he rebuild in a similar way to Houston, OKC, and Cleveland, all of whom have had strong success in relatively short periods. He has about 2 years left to demonstrate that.

All those teams have gotten top 4 picks in the lottery that have been pillars of their rebuild. Ainge built a team of too many competent players to properly tank in 2023 (and I suppose 2024 as well but he probably didn't care about that weak draft) and had bad lotto luck this year.

[Anticon]

The metric for Ainge is can he rebuild in a similar way to Houston, OKC, and Cleveland, all of whom have had strong success in relatively short periods. He has about 2 years left to demonstrate that.

All those teams have gotten top 4 picks in the lottery that have been pillars of their rebuild. Ainge built a team of too many competent players to properly tank in 2023 (and I suppose 2024 as well but he probably didn't care about that weak draft) and had bad lotto luck this year.

If he doesn't succeed in building a good team, whether from a lack of luck or his own decisions, then his term with the Jazz won't have been successful. Unless you mean those teams are too high a standard?