DPOY and All-Defense Thread 2023 (FINAL poll reset)

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Who's on your DPOY ballot? (Pick 3.)

Jaren Jackson Jr.
83
21%
Brook Lopez
87
22%
Giannis Antetokounmpo
60
15%
Evan Mobley
37
9%
Bam Adebayo
17
4%
Nic Claxton
17
4%
Jarrett Allen
6
2%
Alex Caruso
15
4%
Jaden McDaniels
29
7%
Other
49
12%
 
Total votes: 400

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Re: DPOY and All-Defense Thread 2023 

Post#341 » by cupcakesnake » Sun Jan 29, 2023 6:24 pm

BigShot Barrett wrote:
cupcakesnake wrote:
Ascrilas wrote:https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/10nbau4/memphis_grizzlies_scorekeeper_posting_fraudulent

Some redditor points out that JJJ's steals+blocks numbers may be heavily inflated by biased scorekeeping. Also some video examples in the comments. I thought it was a hater post at the beginning, he makes a pretty convincing case. The difference between his home and road games is egregious.

Take this as you want.


I'd need to see evidence that this wasn't happening with other players. This study just examines JJJ, not whether he's getting treatment that other players aren't. Scorekeeping has been consistently been this way forever.
those splits though


It is not uncommon for a lot of players to play better at home than on the road. I agree it's an interesting statistic, but the other day I watched film of every JJJ block and didn't see anything noteworthy.
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Re: DPOY and All-Defense Thread 2023 

Post#342 » by Dacost » Mon Jan 30, 2023 6:09 pm

Jackson return home and recorded 5 blocks and 1 steal.

I actually thing this whole conspiracy is going to help Jackson because everyone (who votes )are going to have to do their own research and see how good he actually is.
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Re: DPOY and All-Defense Thread 2023 

Post#343 » by TwolvesFanRome » Mon Jan 30, 2023 7:14 pm

Jaden McDaniels!
"...I want to compliment him, we all expected that he would take up the game, we have prepared the plan race on him, we have doubled. And, as usual, he did what he wanted..."

Zelimir Obradovic, talking about Dejan Bodiroga
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Re: DPOY and All-Defense Thread 2023 

Post#344 » by nikster » Tue Jan 31, 2023 3:04 am

cupcakesnake wrote:
BigShot Barrett wrote:
cupcakesnake wrote:
I'd need to see evidence that this wasn't happening with other players. This study just examines JJJ, not whether he's getting treatment that other players aren't. Scorekeeping has been consistently been this way forever.
those splits though


It is not uncommon for a lot of players to play better at home than on the road. I agree it's an interesting statistic, but the other day I watched film of every JJJ block and didn't see anything noteworthy.

Yeah we have the video now so it's over now. The real question is if there is a conspiracy to suppress JJs statistics on the road :lol: would be much harder to disprove that cause you can't search clips of unrecorded blocks
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Re: DPOY and All-Defense Thread 2023 

Post#345 » by old skool » Tue Jan 31, 2023 7:20 pm

Fairview4Life wrote:
Dacost wrote:So a guy on reddit watches just 2 Grizzlies games and people just believe him????

This is nothing but a conspiracy theory and is just simple.

At home Jaren doesn't foul out.
Away games he can't even stay on the court.

This whole score keeper thing is legit dumb if you go see every player in detail you will see 2 or 3 plays when they credit with them something.

Also the NBA reviews stats after every game.


The stats analysis for the whole season is incredibly damning and they backed that up by pulling a bunch of extremely egregious examples from game play where he was being credited with blocks that never occurred and steals that were not steals. This is well beyond 2 or 3 plays. It’s like 2 or 3 plays every single home game, minimum.
I think you are missing the real point on stat accuracy. The NBA audits stat posting in real time during every game and adjusts the stats as needed to make them accurate. The home court statistician is not the final decision maker on stats. Stat totals are compiled by teams of professionals verifying that the on court tracking is accurate. That sensationalists claiming home team fraud do not know this, undermines their credibility. It is unfortunate that clueless fans get sucked into such nonsense. That is the story here.
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Re: DPOY and All-Defense Thread 2023 

Post#346 » by Fairview4Life » Tue Jan 31, 2023 7:35 pm

old skool wrote:
Fairview4Life wrote:
Dacost wrote:So a guy on reddit watches just 2 Grizzlies games and people just believe him????

This is nothing but a conspiracy theory and is just simple.

At home Jaren doesn't foul out.
Away games he can't even stay on the court.

This whole score keeper thing is legit dumb if you go see every player in detail you will see 2 or 3 plays when they credit with them something.

Also the NBA reviews stats after every game.


The stats analysis for the whole season is incredibly damning and they backed that up by pulling a bunch of extremely egregious examples from game play where he was being credited with blocks that never occurred and steals that were not steals. This is well beyond 2 or 3 plays. It’s like 2 or 3 plays every single home game, minimum.
I think you are missing the real point on stat accuracy. The NBA audits stat posting in real time during every game and adjusts the stats as needed to make them accurate. The home court statistician is not the final decision maker on stats. Stat totals are compiled by teams of professionals verifying that the on court tracking is accurate. That sensationalists claiming home team fraud do not know this, undermines their credibility. It is unfortunate that clueless fans get sucked into such nonsense. That is the story here.


There is a second person in the arena that is doing the "auditing" in real time. It's two people, and it's not clear if they're both paid by the team or not.

Anyway, a bunch of people have gone through all the blocks and only 3 or so were questionable.
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Re: DPOY and All-Defense Thread 2023 

Post#347 » by moss_is_1 » Thu Feb 2, 2023 3:51 pm

Read on Twitter


Jaden McDaniels first team all defense.
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Re: DPOY and All-Defense Thread 2023 

Post#348 » by LessEyeTest » Thu Feb 2, 2023 9:11 pm

Time to consider Jokic in the all-defense team conversation. Right there with Embiid in terms of advanced metrics.

https://craftednba.com/player-traits/defense

Unhinged commentary and biased "eye tests" need not apply. ;)
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Re: DPOY and All-Defense Thread 2023 

Post#349 » by PedroFlu » Fri Feb 3, 2023 2:04 pm

It's kinda sad seeing guys trying to play tough honest defense and then comes the whistle.
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Re: DPOY and All-Defense Thread 2023 

Post#350 » by Dacost » Fri Feb 3, 2023 5:10 pm

moss_is_1 wrote:
Read on Twitter


Jaden McDaniels first team all defense.
LeBron :D
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Re: DPOY and All-Defense Thread 2023 

Post#351 » by BostonCouchGM » Mon Feb 6, 2023 5:24 am

moss_is_1 wrote:
Read on Twitter


Jaden McDaniels first team all defense.


graphs are misleading and garbage. They don't account for game plans, help defense, breakdowns and the fact that offensive players are allowed to carry, travel, push off and use illegal screens. Graph means less than nothing
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Re: DPOY and All-Defense Thread 2023 

Post#352 » by Johnny Bball » Mon Feb 6, 2023 6:57 pm

Real question.. when was the last time a DPOY played 27 mpg or less? Related to JJJ.
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Re: DPOY and All-Defense Thread 2023 

Post#353 » by ty 4191 » Mon Feb 6, 2023 7:00 pm

Johnny Bball wrote:Real question.. when was the last time a DPOY played 27 mpg or less? Related to JJJ.


Michael Cooper: 86'-87' 27.5 MPG and Rodman 89'-90' played 29.0 MPG. That's the fewest MPG by a DPOY player since 1982-1983, when it started.
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Re: DPOY and All-Defense Thread 2023 

Post#354 » by yoyoboy » Tue Feb 7, 2023 4:18 am

Read on Twitter


Mobley and Allen are just awesome to watch on defense together.
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Re: DPOY and All-Defense Thread 2023 

Post#355 » by yoyoboy » Tue Feb 7, 2023 3:50 pm

Alex Caruso now leads the league in:

Defensive RAPTOR
Defensive EPM
Defensive Luck-Adjusted RAPM

I haven’t watched him much this year. Is the eye test backing all of this up?
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Re: DPOY and All-Defense Thread 2023 

Post#356 » by BAMAFREAK » Wed Feb 8, 2023 1:31 am

JJJ- 4 blocks with time still left in the 1st quarter
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Re: DPOY and All-Defense Thread 2023 

Post#357 » by cupcakesnake » Wed Feb 8, 2023 3:23 pm

yoyoboy wrote:Alex Caruso now leads the league in:

Defensive RAPTOR
Defensive EPM
Defensive Luck-Adjusted RAPM

I haven’t watched him much this year. Is the eye test backing all of this up?


I think he's the best POA defensive guard in the NBA. He also does all the little things in terms of guard help defense. He really knows when to dig, when to help/double, stunt etc. He knows when to follow the ball and when to stick to his man. He's so high intensity and tough without making too many risky mistakes. He's basically the anchor of a league average defense despite playing mostly off the bench and being on a team built around multiple defensive sieves. There are other good defenders in Chicago (Patrick Williams is one), and Bill Donovan is a very good defensive coach, but Caruso is clearly his work horse on that end.

I'm not sure why these catch-all stats love him this much, but in terms of guards at least I think Caruso is the best.
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Re: DPOY and All-Defense Thread 2023 

Post#358 » by Jurassic_Park » Wed Feb 8, 2023 9:16 pm

Johnny Bball wrote:Real question.. when was the last time a DPOY played 27 mpg or less? Related to JJJ.


Michael Cooper
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Re: DPOY and All-Defense Thread 2023 

Post#359 » by moderndarwin » Fri Feb 10, 2023 12:49 am

As a Dubs fan I have to say that Dray really is bringing it this year (as compared to other recent years). He’s been absolutely outstanding out there and has actually played most games. Pretty surprising and he really does a lot out there on that end.
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Re: DPOY and All-Defense Thread 2023 

Post#360 » by cupcakesnake » Sat Feb 11, 2023 5:58 pm

Assuming there's not much room for positional flexibility... which forwards and centers are getting left off the all-defense team this year?

2 center slots for: Lopez, Claxton*, Bam*, Jarrett Allen, Joel Embiid, AD*, Time Lord
4 forward slots for: JJJ*, Draymond, Giannis, Mobley, OG*, McDaniels*, Aaron Gordon, Dillon Brooks*, Ben Simmons*
(*potential positional flexibility)

I hope some of those wings are guard eligible but either way it's pretty clear that some DPOY candidates wont even make an all-defense team.
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