DPOY and All-Defense Thread 2023 (FINAL poll reset)

[cupcakesnake]

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/10nbau4/memphis_grizzlies_scorekeeper_posting_fraudulent

Some redditor points out that JJJ's steals+blocks numbers may be heavily inflated by biased scorekeeping. Also some video examples in the comments. I thought it was a hater post at the beginning, he makes a pretty convincing case. The difference between his home and road games is egregious.

Take this as you want.

I'd need to see evidence that this wasn't happening with other players. This study just examines JJJ, not whether he's getting treatment that other players aren't. Scorekeeping has been consistently been this way forever.

those splits though

It is not uncommon for a lot of players to play better at home than on the road. I agree it's an interesting statistic, but the other day I watched film of every JJJ block and didn't see anything noteworthy.

[Dacost]

Jackson return home and recorded 5 blocks and 1 steal.

I actually thing this whole conspiracy is going to help Jackson because everyone (who votes )are going to have to do their own research and see how good he actually is.

[TwolvesFanRome]

Jaden McDaniels!

[nikster]

I'd need to see evidence that this wasn't happening with other players. This study just examines JJJ, not whether he's getting treatment that other players aren't. Scorekeeping has been consistently been this way forever.

those splits though

It is not uncommon for a lot of players to play better at home than on the road. I agree it's an interesting statistic, but the other day I watched film of every JJJ block and didn't see anything noteworthy.

Yeah we have the video now so it's over now. The real question is if there is a conspiracy to suppress JJs statistics on the road would be much harder to disprove that cause you can't search clips of unrecorded blocks

[old skool]

So a guy on reddit watches just 2 Grizzlies games and people just believe him????

This is nothing but a conspiracy theory and is just simple.

At home Jaren doesn't foul out.
Away games he can't even stay on the court.

This whole score keeper thing is legit dumb if you go see every player in detail you will see 2 or 3 plays when they credit with them something.

Also the NBA reviews stats after every game.

The stats analysis for the whole season is incredibly damning and they backed that up by pulling a bunch of extremely egregious examples from game play where he was being credited with blocks that never occurred and steals that were not steals. This is well beyond 2 or 3 plays. It’s like 2 or 3 plays every single home game, minimum.

I think you are missing the real point on stat accuracy. The NBA audits stat posting in real time during every game and adjusts the stats as needed to make them accurate. The home court statistician is not the final decision maker on stats. Stat totals are compiled by teams of professionals verifying that the on court tracking is accurate. That sensationalists claiming home team fraud do not know this, undermines their credibility. It is unfortunate that clueless fans get sucked into such nonsense. That is the story here.

[Fairview4Life]

So a guy on reddit watches just 2 Grizzlies games and people just believe him????

This is nothing but a conspiracy theory and is just simple.

At home Jaren doesn't foul out.
Away games he can't even stay on the court.

This whole score keeper thing is legit dumb if you go see every player in detail you will see 2 or 3 plays when they credit with them something.

Also the NBA reviews stats after every game.

The stats analysis for the whole season is incredibly damning and they backed that up by pulling a bunch of extremely egregious examples from game play where he was being credited with blocks that never occurred and steals that were not steals. This is well beyond 2 or 3 plays. It’s like 2 or 3 plays every single home game, minimum.

I think you are missing the real point on stat accuracy. The NBA audits stat posting in real time during every game and adjusts the stats as needed to make them accurate. The home court statistician is not the final decision maker on stats. Stat totals are compiled by teams of professionals verifying that the on court tracking is accurate. That sensationalists claiming home team fraud do not know this, undermines their credibility. It is unfortunate that clueless fans get sucked into such nonsense. That is the story here.

There is a second person in the arena that is doing the "auditing" in real time. It's two people, and it's not clear if they're both paid by the team or not.

Anyway, a bunch of people have gone through all the blocks and only 3 or so were questionable.

[moss_is_1]

Read on Twitter

Jaden McDaniels first team all defense.

[LessEyeTest]

Time to consider Jokic in the all-defense team conversation. Right there with Embiid in terms of advanced metrics.

https://craftednba.com/player-traits/defense

Unhinged commentary and biased "eye tests" need not apply.

[PedroFlu]

It's kinda sad seeing guys trying to play tough honest defense and then comes the whistle.

[Dacost]

Read on Twitter

Jaden McDaniels first team all defense.

LeBron

[BostonCouchGM]

Read on Twitter

Jaden McDaniels first team all defense.

graphs are misleading and garbage. They don't account for game plans, help defense, breakdowns and the fact that offensive players are allowed to carry, travel, push off and use illegal screens. Graph means less than nothing

[Johnny Bball]

Real question.. when was the last time a DPOY played 27 mpg or less? Related to JJJ.

[ty 4191]

Real question.. when was the last time a DPOY played 27 mpg or less? Related to JJJ.

Michael Cooper: 86'-87' 27.5 MPG and Rodman 89'-90' played 29.0 MPG. That's the fewest MPG by a DPOY player since 1982-1983, when it started.

[yoyoboy]

Read on Twitter

Mobley and Allen are just awesome to watch on defense together.

[yoyoboy]

Alex Caruso now leads the league in:

Defensive RAPTOR
Defensive EPM
Defensive Luck-Adjusted RAPM

I haven’t watched him much this year. Is the eye test backing all of this up?

[BAMAFREAK]

JJJ- 4 blocks with time still left in the 1st quarter

[cupcakesnake]

Alex Caruso now leads the league in:

Defensive RAPTOR
Defensive EPM
Defensive Luck-Adjusted RAPM

I haven’t watched him much this year. Is the eye test backing all of this up?

I think he's the best POA defensive guard in the NBA. He also does all the little things in terms of guard help defense. He really knows when to dig, when to help/double, stunt etc. He knows when to follow the ball and when to stick to his man. He's so high intensity and tough without making too many risky mistakes. He's basically the anchor of a league average defense despite playing mostly off the bench and being on a team built around multiple defensive sieves. There are other good defenders in Chicago (Patrick Williams is one), and Bill Donovan is a very good defensive coach, but Caruso is clearly his work horse on that end.

I'm not sure why these catch-all stats love him this much, but in terms of guards at least I think Caruso is the best.

[Jurassic_Park]

Real question.. when was the last time a DPOY played 27 mpg or less? Related to JJJ.

Michael Cooper

[moderndarwin]

As a Dubs fan I have to say that Dray really is bringing it this year (as compared to other recent years). He’s been absolutely outstanding out there and has actually played most games. Pretty surprising and he really does a lot out there on that end.

[cupcakesnake]

Assuming there's not much room for positional flexibility... which forwards and centers are getting left off the all-defense team this year?

2 center slots for: Lopez, Claxton*, Bam*, Jarrett Allen, Joel Embiid, AD*, Time Lord
4 forward slots for: JJJ*, Draymond, Giannis, Mobley, OG*, McDaniels*, Aaron Gordon, Dillon Brooks*, Ben Simmons*
(*potential positional flexibility)

I hope some of those wings are guard eligible but either way it's pretty clear that some DPOY candidates wont even make an all-defense team.