2024-25 NBA MVP Discussion Thread (Pt. 4: Who is the MVP?)

[Mavrelous]

Murray Vs Brown
Gordon Vs Marcus Smart
KCP Vs Derrick White
MPJ Vs Al Horford

Bruce Brown Vs Grant Williams

I'd say pretty comparable, I think Nuggets are better FWIW...


That's your opinion, and it's in line with the belittling of the Nuggets player, I just disagree strongly with this sentiment.

Problem with Jamal Murray is you will get 3 different versions of him. He is either out and injured completely. Plays 50% of his normal level and you get Kwamal Murray like he was in 2024 and is worthless on both ends. Plays 120% and you get championship Murray.
At 120% he can match Brown sure but the other times Brown is way better.

Aaron Gordon beats Smart I guess. KCP is nowhere remotely in the same dimension as Derrick White. MPJ is nowhere in the same dimension as Al Horford.

FWIW OP also left off Time Lord. Who was the Celtics 3rd best player that year. Nuggets 7-9th men were also considerably worse too. In general, I'm confused how the 2022's Celtics net rating was like 4 point higher than the 2023 Nuggets if the Nuggets had a better supporting cast. Maybe 2022 Tatum was more valuable than 2023 Nikola Jokic?

So, this data cherry picking is basically my main point of how disingenuous this whole argument is about Jokic supporting cast, 23 Nuggets had better record 22 Celtics, they led comfortably and had really no competition for 1st seed in the west, while Celtics had to fight for PO seeding until the last minute to get HCA, they easily dispached the Heat who beat a better Celtics than 22 Celtics, you argue:
22 Celtics, the 51 wins 2nd seed, tied for 4th in the east, is obviously much better supporting cast than the 23 Nuggets, 53 wins first seed , the comfortable 1st seed in the west, who threw their last few games because they basically had the 1st seed secured, because of the net rating difference.

[Infinite Llamas]

Problem with Jamal Murray is you will get 3 different versions of him. He is either out and injured completely. Plays 50% of his normal level and you get Kwamal Murray like he was in 2024 and is worthless on both ends. Plays 120% and you get championship Murray.
At 120% he can match Brown sure but the other times Brown is way better.

Aaron Gordon beats Smart I guess. KCP is nowhere remotely in the same dimension as Derrick White. MPJ is nowhere in the same dimension as Al Horford.

FWIW OP also left off Time Lord. Who was the Celtics 3rd best player that year. Nuggets 7-9th men were also considerably worse too. In general, I'm confused how the 2022's Celtics net rating was like 4 point higher than the 2023 Nuggets if the Nuggets had a better supporting cast. Maybe 2022 Tatum was more valuable than 2023 Nikola Jokic?

So, this data cherry picking is basically my main point of how disingenuous this whole argument is about Jokic supporting cast, 23 Nuggets had better record 22 Celtics, they led comfortably and had really no competition for 1st seed in the west, while Celtics had to fight for PO seeding until the last minute to get HCA, they easily dispached the Heat who beat a better Celtics than 22 Celtics, you argue:
22 Celtics, the 51 wins 2nd seed, tied for 4th in the east, is obviously much better supporting cast than the 23 Nuggets, 53 wins first seed , the comfortable 1st seed in the west, who threw their last few games because they basically had the 1st seed secured, because of the net rating difference.

Bostons bench was horrific in that playoff run. White should have been playing over Smart and Grant/Pritchard were useless off the bench. It was a strange scenario where Denver seemingly had a better bench with production from Bruce Brown and Braun. When Udoka had to go to the bench, the Celtics were absolutely screwed.

I’m not high on Denver’s depth at all but that ‘22 Celtics team was very thin. Pritchard and Hauser weren’t the players they are now, but then again, I just don’t think that Udoka trusted them.

[EmpireFalls]

Feel like Tatum should be 3rd over Giannis.

[Maxthirty]

I think we all know Jokic is better than Shai.

[LockoutSeason]

Jokic is better but Shai is MVP.

[SpurNani]

I think we all know Jokic is better than Shai.

As much as i crap on Jokic, ive never once said he wasn’t better than Shai.

He deserves that title for best in the world, for now. That still doesn’t mean he’s the MVP this sesson and he shouldn’t be.

[Special_Puppy]

Any strong opinions on who the 5th best player in the league has been this year (taking into account per game effective and games played)

[Woodsanity]

Problem with Jamal Murray is you will get 3 different versions of him. He is either out and injured completely. Plays 50% of his normal level and you get Kwamal Murray like he was in 2024 and is worthless on both ends. Plays 120% and you get championship Murray.
At 120% he can match Brown sure but the other times Brown is way better.

Aaron Gordon beats Smart I guess. KCP is nowhere remotely in the same dimension as Derrick White. MPJ is nowhere in the same dimension as Al Horford.

FWIW OP also left off Time Lord. Who was the Celtics 3rd best player that year. Nuggets 7-9th men were also considerably worse too. In general, I'm confused how the 2022's Celtics net rating was like 4 point higher than the 2023 Nuggets if the Nuggets had a better supporting cast. Maybe 2022 Tatum was more valuable than 2023 Nikola Jokic?

So, this data cherry picking is basically my main point of how disingenuous this whole argument is about Jokic supporting cast, 23 Nuggets had better record 22 Celtics, they led comfortably and had really no competition for 1st seed in the west, while Celtics had to fight for PO seeding until the last minute to get HCA, they easily dispached the Heat who beat a better Celtics than 22 Celtics, you argue:
22 Celtics, the 51 wins 2nd seed, tied for 4th in the east, is obviously much better supporting cast than the 23 Nuggets, 53 wins first seed , the comfortable 1st seed in the west, who threw their last few games because they basically had the 1st seed secured, because of the net rating difference.

If were talking about Postseason than RS performance really isn't relevant. Murray was not the same player in the PS. He was completely and utterly ineffective and laughably bad in 2023.

Its like bringing up Embiid's RS performance when were talking about the playoffs.

[Big J]

I think we all know Jokic is better than Shai.

As much as i crap on Jokic, ive never once said he wasn’t better than Shai.

He deserves that title for best in the world, for now. That still doesn’t mean he’s the MVP this sesson and he shouldn’t be.

If Shai wins a title and finals MVP that crown might be up for grabs.

[Special_Puppy]

My whole life is consistent

[Jurassic_Park]

Jokic out again today. Its officially over now. Congrats sga.

We’ll see what happens in the playoffs.

[AmIWrongDude]

Jokic out again today. Its officially over now. Congrats sga.

We’ll see what happens in the playoffs.

Serious question: would it hurt Jokic’s MVP standing more if the nuggets lose or win with him out?

[AleksandarN]

Jokic out again today. Its officially over now. Congrats sga.

We’ll see what happens in the playoffs.

So because Jokic missed this game because he is hurt it is officially over?? That’s a dumb take.

[Special_Puppy]

Jokic out again today. Its officially over now. Congrats sga.

We’ll see what happens in the playoffs.

So because Jokic missed this game because he is hurt it is officially over?? That’s a dumb take.

With SGA also sitting out today too lol

[Special_Puppy]

Shai saw the Warriors game and is being a good dude and hurting his RAPM

[GSP]

As great as Sga is and he should win Mvp.................this Okc team is **** STACKED.

Sga and Jdub both out and win by 30 easy. **** Caruso, Ihart and Dort were out too............Wtf.........their 2 stars and 3 of their top 6 rotation out and they win by 30. I dont care how bad the Sixers are beating a team by 30 doesnt happen all the time..........Okc never put a good deep supporting cast around Kd and Russ like they did w/ this team. Its one of the most stacked defenses in Nba history. They could have a bunch of guys All Defense and do they even have a bad defender on the roster? **** do they even have an average defender? Its insane how loaded this defense is cant remember one this stacked everywhere

[DrModesty]

As great as Sga is and he should win Mvp.................this Okc team is **** STACKED.

Sga and Jdub both out and win by 30 easy. **** Caruso, Ihart and Dort were out too............Wtf.........their 2 stars and 3 of their top 6 rotation out and they win by 30. I dont care how bad the Sixers are beating a team by 30 doesnt happen all the time..........Okc never put a good deep supporting cast around Kd and Russ like they did w/ this team. Its one of the most stacked defenses in Nba history. They could have a bunch of guys All Defense and do they even have a bad defender on the roster? **** do they even have an average defender? Its insane how loaded this defense is cant remember one this stacked everywhere

OKC's 8-12th spots on the roster are elite. So when you have a situation where they are major components against a viciously tanking 76'ers team, OKC will still be able to run over them.

[RB34]

I’m supposed to believe the Thunder aren’t stacked?

[RRR3]

Special Puppy bro just the other day you said Jokic fans weren't overreacting to one game samples, but here we have them acting like beating the G League Sixers is something impressive.

[Special_Puppy]

Special Puppy bro just the other day you said Jokic fans weren't overreacting to one game samples, but here we have them acting like beating the G League Sixers is something impressive.

Think its pretty obviously true that overreacting to the a one game sample is dumb and also that Shai pretty obviously has one of the best supporting casts in the entire league (note that SGA having one of the best supporting casts in the league and SGA winning MVP if he elevates them to ATG status which he has)