Where Jonathan Kuminga ends ?

[Ruma85]

I haven't been following this Kuminga drama super closely but the Warriors play a preseason game in 8 days. Is Horford still going to GSW? Seems like it's time to get off the pot and finalize the roster.

All reports are that Horford, Melton, GP2 and Seth Curry are all going to sign after JK is figured out.

It seems like the Warriors & Kuminga don't want to extend the QO past October 1 which makes sense for both parties.

[Maxthirty]

Draymon and/or Jimmy organized mini-camp. Guess who's absent

Staying away from Draymond during camp is understandable given precedent.

JK deserves it.

[Dr Aki]

So what actually happens if Kuminga DOESN'T take the QO at the deadline?

Do the Warriors have to re-offer/extend him the QO, in order to keep him a restricted agent? And then we stay in this state of limbo forever until his contract situation is resolved? (i.e. No Horford, no GPII, no Melton signings).

I understand that the hold up in signing Horford/Melton/GPII's signings is that if they happen before they re-sign Kuminga, they may lose the ability to match say a full MLE offer from Brooklyn.

And if they don't extend him the QO, then Kuminga would become an unrestricted free agent as he wanted to all along? And GS loses him for nothing?

[ORLMagicGirl15]

So what actually happens if Kuminga DOESN'T take the QO at the deadline?

Do the Warriors have to re-offer/extend him the QO, in order to keep him a restricted agent? And then we stay in this state of limbo forever until his contract situation is resolved? (i.e. No Horford, no GPII, no Melton signings).

I understand that the hold up in signing Horford/Melton/GPII's signings is that if they happen before they re-sign Kuminga, they may lose the ability to match say a full MLE offer from Brooklyn.

And if they don't extend him the QO, then Kuminga would become an unrestricted free agent as he wanted to all along? And GS loses him for nothing?

He doesn’t have a contract for the 2025-2026 season if he doesn’t sign something. And I don’t believe there are too many teams that can offer him the deal he wants.

[Dr Aki]

So what actually happens if Kuminga DOESN'T take the QO at the deadline?

Do the Warriors have to re-offer/extend him the QO, in order to keep him a restricted agent? And then we stay in this state of limbo forever until his contract situation is resolved? (i.e. No Horford, no GPII, no Melton signings).

I understand that the hold up in signing Horford/Melton/GPII's signings is that if they happen before they re-sign Kuminga, they may lose the ability to match say a full MLE offer from Brooklyn.

And if they don't extend him the QO, then Kuminga would become an unrestricted free agent as he wanted to all along? And GS loses him for nothing?

He doesn’t have a contract for the 2025-2026 season if he doesn’t sign something. And I don’t believe there are too many teams that can offer him the deal he wants.

He doesn't have a contract, but that doesn't he doesn't count for nothing on the Warriors cap. He still has a massive 22.9 mil cap hold.

But obviously the Warriors want to keep Kuminga on the books as a trade chip, and thus have to continue to keep his 22.9 mil cap hold on the books to keep him a restricted free agent.

Otherwise, once they sign Horford to that majority of the non-taxpayer MLE, they trigger the first apron hard cap and may no longer be able to keep Kuminga as a restricted free agent if he doesn't sign. Right now, they have 9 players on 170 mil. They've reportedly agreed with Horford to a multi-year contract worth more than the taxpayer MLE, which would trigger the first apron hard cap at 195 mil.

I don't believe there's been reporting on exactly how much the contracts are with Horford, GPII and Melton are. But I'm pretty sure, that's why the order of operations is the way it is. It's to prevent another team from swooping in at the most inopportune of times when the Warriors cannot keep Kuminga's cap hold on the books to match a bid.

[The-Power]

So what actually happens if Kuminga DOESN'T take the QO at the deadline?

Do the Warriors have to re-offer/extend him the QO, in order to keep him a restricted agent?

I'm by no means a CBA expert but I'm fairly positive that Kuminga remains a RFA in this case. Kuminga would have simply relinquished his right to accept the QO. He can still try to find a deal with the Warriors but he cannot just sign with another team and bypass the Warriors.

There is also the option to extend the deadline for the QO but I don't see any reason for the Warriors to do that unless there a deal is imminent and they need to just iron out the details. And, of course, it bears mentioning that Kuminga cannot play in the NBA without being under contract. That should reduce his incentive to leave the situation unresolved for much longer.

[Ruma85]

So what actually happens if Kuminga DOESN'T take the QO at the deadline?

Do the Warriors have to re-offer/extend him the QO, in order to keep him a restricted agent? And then we stay in this state of limbo forever until his contract situation is resolved? (i.e. No Horford, no GPII, no Melton signings).

I understand that the hold up in signing Horford/Melton/GPII's signings is that if they happen before they re-sign Kuminga, they may lose the ability to match say a full MLE offer from Brooklyn.

And if they don't extend him the QO, then Kuminga would become an unrestricted free agent as he wanted to all along? And GS loses him for nothing?

He doesn’t have a contract for the 2025-2026 season if he doesn’t sign something. And I don’t believe there are too many teams that can offer him the deal he wants.

He doesn't have a contract, but that doesn't he doesn't count for nothing on the Warriors cap. He still has a massive 22.9 mil cap hold.

But obviously the Warriors want to keep Kuminga on the books as a trade chip, and thus have to continue to keep his 22.9 mil cap hold on the books to keep him a restricted free agent.

Otherwise, once they sign Horford to that majority of the non-taxpayer MLE, they trigger the first apron hard cap and may no longer be able to keep Kuminga as a restricted free agent if he doesn't sign. Right now, they have 9 players on 170 mil. They've reportedly agreed with Horford to a multi-year contract worth more than the taxpayer MLE, which would trigger the first apron hard cap at 195 mil.

I don't believe there's been reporting on exactly how much the contracts are with Horford, GPII and Melton are. But I'm pretty sure, that's why the order of operations is the way it is. It's to prevent another team from swooping in at the most inopportune of times when the Warriors cannot keep Kuminga's cap hold on the books to match a bid.

They cannot sign Horford, GPII and Melton, until the Kuminga situation is resolved.

[statsman]

Otherwise, once they sign Horford to that majority of the non-taxpayer MLE ...

Where did you read that? It has always been believed that Horford would get the full amount of the taxpayer MLE, which would hard cap them at the 2nd apron. This assumes Kuminga signs with the Warriors (new contract or QO).

In the event Kuminga doesn't sign anything (holds out) or the QO, the Warriors would use the non-taxpayer MLE ($14.104M) since they would be below the 1st apron, but only up to the amount of the taxpayer MLE ($5.685M). Doing the latter would not hard cap them at the 1st apron.

[Black Jack]

So what actually happens if Kuminga DOESN'T take the QO at the deadline?

Do the Warriors have to re-offer/extend him the QO, in order to keep him a restricted agent? And then we stay in this state of limbo forever until his contract situation is resolved? (i.e. No Horford, no GPII, no Melton signings).

I understand that the hold up in signing Horford/Melton/GPII's signings is that if they happen before they re-sign Kuminga, they may lose the ability to match say a full MLE offer from Brooklyn.

And if they don't extend him the QO, then Kuminga would become an unrestricted free agent as he wanted to all along? And GS loses him for nothing?

Dubs nation is gonna put Jonathan in stasis like Han Solo in the Empire Strikes Back. He'll be frozen for 300 years and come back into the futuristic NBA featuring 7-5 average lineups and 15 foot rims. His starting salary will be $125 billion USD / year and role will be waterboy delivering Brawn-do drinks to our thirsty mutant players.

[sp6r=underrated]

There is a very decent shot this ends with Kuminga signing the qualifying offer, which is a lose-lose outcome for both parties. It would be a lose-lose for both parties because Kuminga would be missing out on a lot of guaranteed money while the Warriors would lose out on any trade value for him.

Normally parties work hard to avoid a lose-lose outcome but it seems like both sides are just too far apart to make it work. In retrospect, he should have been traded a year ago.

[vagelis]

Kuminga wants to have a bigger role and more minutes.
Kerr didn't appreciate him much.

So, I think it is not about money, it is about emotions.
I think Kuminga wants to just get out of Warriors and try somewhere else.

[Dr Aki]

Otherwise, once they sign Horford to that majority of the non-taxpayer MLE ...

Where did you read that? It has always been believed that Horford would get the full amount of the taxpayer MLE, which would hard cap them at the 2nd apron. This assumes Kuminga signs with the Warriors (new contract or QO).

In the event Kuminga doesn't sign anything (holds out) or the QO, the Warriors would use the non-taxpayer MLE ($14.104M) since they would be below the 1st apron, but only up to the amount of the taxpayer MLE ($5.685M). Doing the latter would not hard cap them at the 1st apron.

It's actually a first apron hard cap, because the NTMLE only available to teams under the first apron. Other things that trigger it are using the BAE and participating in a S&T. I think I read somewhere that Horford's contract is around the high 11.XX mil per year amount.

After the first apron, then the teams are limited to the taxpayer MLE and are hard capped to the second apron. So the only way not to trigger the first apron hard cap, is to only use (up to) the taxpayer MLE.

After the second apron, that's when teams lose their MLE altogether.

[statsman]

Otherwise, once they sign Horford to that majority of the non-taxpayer MLE ...

Where did you read that? It has always been believed that Horford would get the full amount of the taxpayer MLE, which would hard cap them at the 2nd apron. This assumes Kuminga signs with the Warriors (new contract or QO).

In the event Kuminga doesn't sign anything (holds out) or the QO, the Warriors would use the non-taxpayer MLE ($14.104M) since they would be below the 1st apron, but only up to the amount of the taxpayer MLE ($5.685M). Doing the latter would not hard cap them at the 1st apron.

It's actually a first apron hard cap, because the NTMLE only available to teams under the first apron. Other things that trigger it are using the BAE and participating in a S&T. I think I read somewhere that Horford's contract is around the high 11.XX mil per year amount.

After the first apron, then the teams are limited to the taxpayer MLE and are hard capped to the second apron. So the only way not to trigger the first apron hard cap, is to only use (up to) the taxpayer MLE.

After the second apron, that's when teams lose their MLE altogether.

Nope. If they don't use more than the value of the TPMLE from the NTMLE, they would not be hard capped at the first apron (but would at the second apron).

[Dr Aki]

Where did you read that? It has always been believed that Horford would get the full amount of the taxpayer MLE, which would hard cap them at the 2nd apron. This assumes Kuminga signs with the Warriors (new contract or QO).

In the event Kuminga doesn't sign anything (holds out) or the QO, the Warriors would use the non-taxpayer MLE ($14.104M) since they would be below the 1st apron, but only up to the amount of the taxpayer MLE ($5.685M). Doing the latter would not hard cap them at the 1st apron.

It's actually a first apron hard cap, because the NTMLE only available to teams under the first apron. Other things that trigger it are using the BAE and participating in a S&T. I think I read somewhere that Horford's contract is around the high 11.XX mil per year amount.

After the first apron, then the teams are limited to the taxpayer MLE and are hard capped to the second apron. So the only way not to trigger the first apron hard cap, is to only use (up to) the taxpayer MLE.

After the second apron, that's when teams lose their MLE altogether.

Nope. If they don't use more than the value of the TPMLE from the NTMLE, they would not be hard capped at the first apron (but would at the second apron).

Yes, that's literally what I said.

It comes down to what the actual Horford contract is.

[statsman]

I think I read somewhere that Horford's contract is around the high 11.XX mil per year amount.

More like the amount for two seasons at the TPMLE plus 5% raise for the second season, which would be $11.65M.

There has been no plan that has ever been reported that Horford would earn more than the TPMLE from the Warriors unless they had renounced Kuminga. Kuminga on the qualifying offer along with everyone else who is being signed would limit what they could use from the NTMLE at about $8.8M.

[Dr Aki]

I think I read somewhere that Horford's contract is around the high 11.XX mil per year amount.

More like the amount for two seasons at the TPMLE plus 5% raise for the second season, which would be $11.65M.

There has been no plan that has ever been reported that Horford would earn more than the TPMLE from the Warriors unless they had renounced Kuminga. Kuminga on the qualifying offer along with everyone else who is being signed would limit what they could use from the NTMLE at about $8.8M.

That makes sense.

Though if Kuminga takes the QO, that instantly frees up a ton more space under the first apron