JustOneFix wrote:Man this game has become so weird. You have guys like Janis, Jokic and Kemba dominating in the NBA and yet are completely nonexisting in FIBA and yet there are guys like Scola and Rubio who suck in NBA and are dominating in FIBA.
Blah...can't wait for this nonsense to end and for the real basketball to begin.
I'll never understand how Rubio never really panned out in the NBA. He was arguably as prodigious as Doncic as a teenager, yet he never emerged as an elite player at the NBA level.
I thought Rubio was going to be a point god.
I think there's a confidence issue in the NBA. My biggest complaint with Rubio wasn't that he was a bad shooter, it was how often he became a non shooter. You can have good games without shooting well, but Rubio would often take himself out of the game and make himself a liability for the offense. If he stuck with it and stayed confident through shooting woes he'd be a much better player.
traax wrote:Scolas game is just a beauty to watch. That guy has incredible fundamentals. Schooling Gobert like that, at 39 years, I mean that is something else. He is still absolutely leathal in the p&r. I remember him on the Rockets basically 10 years ago. He always had that amazing footwork and the classic old mans game.
There is something that I need someone else with more basketball knowledge explain to me. How is it possible that a 39 year old big man with below average athleticism is still able to play at least decent defense? We see so many big man in the NBA, with much more potential when it comes to athletic ability absolutely fold when it comes to that. How is that even possible? Especially against a very good frontcourt?
I hope to know more about that too and in the form of documentary, if it's possible i mean commentators in my language was talking that Scola was really putting in the individual preparation for this. Waking 6 in the morning to get some work done with personal trainers, before other preparations. Pretty cool to see the outcome of his hard work.
Of the 35 players originally selected for the U.S. player pool, only four are in China for the FIBA World Cup. "I can only say, you can't help but notice and remember who you thought you were going to war with and who didn't show up."
JustOneFix wrote:Man this game has become so weird. You have guys like Janis, Jokic and Kemba dominating in the NBA and yet are completely nonexisting in FIBA and yet there are guys like Scola and Rubio who suck in NBA and are dominating in FIBA.
Blah...can't wait for this nonsense to end and for the real basketball to begin.
I'll never understand how Rubio never really panned out in the NBA. He was arguably as prodigious as Doncic as a teenager, yet he never emerged as an elite player at the NBA level.
I thought Rubio was going to be a point god.
I think there's a confidence issue in the NBA. My biggest complaint with Rubio wasn't that he was a bad shooter, it was how often he became a non shooter. You can have good games without shooting well, but Rubio would often take himself out of the game and make himself a liability for the offense. If he stuck with it and stayed confident through shooting woes he'd be a much better player.
It's bit cultural I guess. In Spain put your ego aside and give the ball to the hot hand is praised and in United States maybe is a signal of lack of confidence. I read same complaints about Gasol's brothers thousands of times. Is funniest part of sport. Is a pre science so nobody has the absolute truth.
JustOneFix wrote:Man this game has become so weird. You have guys like Janis, Jokic and Kemba dominating in the NBA and yet are completely nonexisting in FIBA and yet there are guys like Scola and Rubio who suck in NBA and are dominating in FIBA.
Blah...can't wait for this nonsense to end and for the real basketball to begin.
I'll never understand how Rubio never really panned out in the NBA. He was arguably as prodigious as Doncic as a teenager, yet he never emerged as an elite player at the NBA level.
I thought Rubio was going to be a point god.
Rubio was like 10 times worse than Doncic, and I'm not exaggerating that much. In fact, in Spain we always said NBA fits rubio better than EUropean basketball due to his lack of shooting.
JustOneFix wrote:Man this game has become so weird. You have guys like Janis, Jokic and Kemba dominating in the NBA and yet are completely nonexisting in FIBA and yet there are guys like Scola and Rubio who suck in NBA and are dominating in FIBA.
Blah...can't wait for this nonsense to end and for the real basketball to begin.
I'll never understand how Rubio never really panned out in the NBA. He was arguably as prodigious as Doncic as a teenager, yet he never emerged as an elite player at the NBA level.
I already loved Doncic before most in here knew about him, but for some reason he is not playing here, so...
Of course Rubio didn´t turn out as the superstar he seemed destined to be, but let´s not pretend he has been a total bust; A solid starting playmaker in the NBA for some years already and an international career which many superstars would die for (including plenty of titles in major competitions and even significant individual accomplishments as this last 'most assists at the World Champs ever' one), not to mention he is playing the WC Final on Sunday as possibly the leader of a significantly lesser Spain.
He is actually earning all my respect after being sceptical, unlike all those too many pretentious stars who deflate against the slightest adversity.
Why does this hurt so bad. Can't even have a break forgetting our double OT loss. As soon as I woke up this morning first thought was "We lost". Bloody Gasol. Absolute monster in the second half and OT.
rade wrote:Colangelo won't forget U.S. World Cup pullouts
Of the 35 players originally selected for the U.S. player pool, only four are in China for the FIBA World Cup. "I can only say, you can't help but notice and remember who you thought you were going to war with and who didn't show up."
We'll have to see about the big names: James Harden, Anthony Davis, Damian Lillard, Bradley Beal, CJ McCollum, Tobias Harris, Kevin Love, Eric Gordon, Paul Millsap, Andre Drummond, and Zion Williamson have dropped out of the tournament. DeMar DeRozan was added to the Team USA roster later but also dropped out.
“The most contrarian thing of all is not to oppose the crowd but to think for yourself.” Peter Thiel
traax wrote:Scolas game is just a beauty to watch. That guy has incredible fundamentals. Schooling Gobert like that, at 39 years, I mean that is something else. He is still absolutely leathal in the p&r. I remember him on the Rockets basically 10 years ago. He always had that amazing footwork and the classic old mans game.
There is something that I need someone else with more basketball knowledge explain to me. How is it possible that a 39 year old big man with below average athleticism is still able to play at least decent defense? We see so many big man in the NBA, with much more potential when it comes to athletic ability absolutely fold when it comes to that. How is that even possible? Especially against a very good frontcourt?
- When talking about NBA, there’re 2 nba. Regular season and playoffs. They are not the same. In FIBA with less spacing and a more physical play, it’s more about skills (or shooting) than athletism. That’s why Scola can still get buckets but probably won’t produce in the NBA.
- Let’s not forget that Argentina have 2 PGs that have been the MVP of the Spanish league and other players started to leave Argentina to play in Europe and they are still young. They had a very talented U-19 that never produced to the potential.
- Also, let’s not forget how many injuries has Ricky Rubio had during his younger years in the NBA. That took away a lot of his development. Maybe all the hype played a role too.
Bit sad that we didn't win against spain but it was a solid performance, just not clinical enough at the end and you can never let leads as big as we had slide. I'm not entirely confident we can beat France again cause we barely beat them last time. Though it would be nice to actually get a medal instead of finishing 4th yet again.
I thought I read that Fox quit before he was going to be cut. The game he struggled in and didn’t receive a lot of minutes led to the belief he wasn’t going to be involved as much.
Well I thought White would get cut the game before that because -- he struggled and didn't receive a lot of minutes. His penetration was great, outside shot not so much, and I honestly don't remember what kind of defender he was, but with FIBA being far more physical, it may have been a factor. I get letting a guy save face in these sorts of circumstances, but there was an interview with Pop shortly after and he looked genuinely taken aback and a bit upset at the news.
But Fox is one of a couple of grey area cases, right? If we look at all the guys who flat out declined, there's like two rosters' worth of players so there's a bigger issue at play beyond a Fox here or a Melo there. The decliners can suck it; huge credit and respect to the guys who committed.
Understandable. I can also see it from Fox point of view he was kind of the hyped to be the guy to show out then he’s competing with White for mins. Biggest concern from a confidence standpoint the usual boost from this will it impact guys that played in a negative way.
Not the olympics but damn sure going to be headlines about the failure
rade wrote:Colangelo won't forget U.S. World Cup pullouts
Of the 35 players originally selected for the U.S. player pool, only four are in China for the FIBA World Cup. "I can only say, you can't help but notice and remember who you thought you were going to war with and who didn't show up."
Not sure this is the best way to navigate the situation as someone in Jerry Colangelo's position. It's completely understandable that Team USA is upset at commitments made and reneged on. Many here have made the same point, but we're fans on a forum, not the head of a national basketball program. The whole taking names and making lists doesn't have the right tone of working with players to commit. Everything he said is true, but stating it publicly is counterproductive. I hope they find a favourable way forward, and players actually, you know, keep their word. Crazy thought. I can't stress how much people backing out on their word casually bothers me. Nobody cares, but anyway I think it's really important and I take it seriously. I understand if someone legitimately cannot come due to injury or whatever else and has to back out. But I'd be surprised if, for example, McCollum gets another call because he flat out stated that he backed out after several others did and he didn't want to be on a team that had a bigger potential of losing. Not exactly heart of a lion material there.
I did find it interesting that JC confirmed Kuzma would have been on the team were it not for his injury. It's also interesting that he mentioned working more with teams and having direct channels to players rather than I presume going through agents, etc. Seems like there was a whole lot of politicking, more so than perhaps in previous years.
TheNewEra, I quoted you again because of some new info about Fox. You may have been right that he was cut and was allowed to save face by saying he left. I say that because yesterday on that basketball show that Rachel hosts, one of her co-hosts (I forget his name, don't watch the show) basically said that Fox was cut. Rachel asked whether Booker, for instance, benefits more from staying at home complaining about getting double teamed in a scrimmage or from this type of experience, and it was eventually revealed by that co-host that Fox (and I think Booker as well, if I recall correctly) would never be on a national team so long as Jerry Colangelo was in charge.
We don't know the behind the scenes issues that may have crept up, and we don't know whether the co-host has some agenda of his own or someone else's to say something so damning, both about Fox (and potentially Booker) and about Colangelo.
But it is clear that this is pretty much the team they were left with ("...you deal with the cards you're dealt..."), and nowhere near the one they'd envisioned having in projecting various potential line-ups. The article also mentions that this is the first time since '67-'68 that the World Cup and Olympics are in consecutive seasons. People will point to international players showing up, and that's true, but they're also raised and developed with the importance of international play, so there's greater desire and also greater pressure to do so.
All of that is once again taking nothing away from the guys who committed, bonded, and went through a challenging situation together. I have no doubt they all benefited from the experience and it will show this season. But we can put to bed the 'why didn't they choose player X instead' as the article indicates the options were largely taken away due to players backing out of commitments made. Again, huge respect to the players who committed, kept their word, and saw the experience through.
This Argentina team’s run to the gold medal game really makes the 2017 Team USA victory on their soil seem even more impressive. A Jeff Can Gundy coached squad of G-leaguers came back from a huge deficit in a super hostile gym to win. One of the most fun FIBA games I can remember in a long time. All of Argentina’s key guys except Scola were on that team. Same guys who just dismantled an an NBA laden French team with the NBA DPOY after beating Jokic, Bogdanovic and the Serbs.
I’d love to see what a team of the 12 best Euroleague Americans playing for a good FIBA coach looks like in one of these tournaments.
Australia win gold or silver if they don’t have dodgy refs. That foul call in first OT to give Gasol 2 free throws to tie the game with 5 seconds left was the most bull thing you’ll see in a game.
Australian team rightfully calling out FIBA for blatant biased cheating in the game.
Young gun 6 wrote:Australia win gold or silver if they don’t have dodgy refs. That foul call in first OT to give Gasol 2 free throws to tie the game with 5 seconds left was the most bull thing you’ll see in a game.
Australian team rightfully calling out FIBA for blatant biased cheating in the game.
Bogut embarrassed himself and his team with his nonsensical conspiracy accusations. Not a surprise. That one bad call wasn’t why they lost. Spain thoroughly outplayed them and deserved to win.
Young gun 6 wrote:Australia win gold or silver if they don’t have dodgy refs. That foul call in first OT to give Gasol 2 free throws to tie the game with 5 seconds left was the most bull thing you’ll see in a game.
Australian team rightfully calling out FIBA for blatant biased cheating in the game.
Bogut embarrassed himself and his team with his nonsensical conspiracy accusations. Not a surprise. That one bad call wasn’t why they lost. Spain thoroughly outplayed them and deserved to win.
A team that won in double OT ‘thoroughly’ outplayed the opposition
Australia were the better team they just choked and had shocking ref calls. They absolutely destroyed Spain all over the glass with 50-39 rebounds and 20-9 offensive boards, a combination of bad passing and bad decision making let Spain back in the match then the refs did the rest and it was over.
GREY 1769 wrote:But it is clear that this is pretty much the team they were left with ("...you deal with the cards you're dealt..."), and nowhere near the one they'd envisioned having in projecting various potential line-ups. The article also mentions that this is the first time since '67-'68 that the World Cup and Olympics are in consecutive seasons. People will point to international players showing up, and that's true, but they're also raised and developed with the importance of international play, so there's greater desire and also greater pressure to do so.
All of that is once again taking nothing away from the guys who committed, bonded, and went through a challenging situation together. I have no doubt they all benefited from the experience and it will show this season. But we can put to bed the 'why didn't they choose player X instead' as the article indicates the options were largely taken away due to players backing out of commitments made. Again, huge respect to the players who committed, kept their word, and saw the experience through.
sorry to quote you specifically but i keep reading posts like these, complaining about who commits and prep time and preseason etc etc, when every other team is under the exact same constraints IF NOT MORE.
who has more clout with NBA teams, nigerian federation, slovenian federation, the argentine federation, or USA basketball? Which of those federation has more resources for coaching staff and camps and tournaments? USA basketball x3000
Do foreign players age less, does the world spin at different speeds depending what part of the planet you are on? no, everyone has the same amount of time. How you use it is your problem (and largely dependent on available resources which the US has far more of, in terms of facilities, players, coaches, money)
if you think more international players feel the importance of international play, that could be (though if you are honest you know you have no idea about players declining to play from other teams)- but who or what is stopping US players from caring? Other guys (including americans), from roleplayers to superstars, have done it regularly, why do we have to give excuses for american players when they dont do it?
Instead of blaming FIBA or prep time, just recognize that USA basketball is less effective at their jobs even though they have more resources, your federation is at fault and the excuses are tiresome, neither serbia nor france nor spain nor argentina have any structural advantage beyond actually having done the work and planning done with less resources. I really feel sorry for pop because this team was effectively third rate but if he doesnt take the situation more seriously, the olympics could be a real disaster EVEN IF he gets to add a couple mvps / all nbas to this roster. but like in 2004 there will always be apologists with more excuses for the disorganized superpower.
Young gun 6 wrote:Australia win gold or silver if they don’t have dodgy refs. That foul call in first OT to give Gasol 2 free throws to tie the game with 5 seconds left was the most bull thing you’ll see in a game.
Australian team rightfully calling out FIBA for blatant biased cheating in the game.
Bogut embarrassed himself and his team with his nonsensical conspiracy accusations. Not a surprise. That one bad call wasn’t why they lost. Spain thoroughly outplayed them and deserved to win.
A team that won in double OT ‘thoroughly’ outplayed the opposition
Australia were the better team they just choked and had shocking ref calls. They absolutely destroyed Spain all over the glass with 50-39 rebounds and 20-9 offensive boards, a combination of bad passing and bad decision making let Spain back in the match then the refs did the rest and it was over.
Yes, down the stretch of the 4th and both OT’s Spain thoroughly outplayed the Boomers. Australia had 22 turnovers, missed wide open shots and unraveled. Spain stayed composed, moved the ball beautifully and knocked down daggers under pressure. Ingles was taken completely out of his game and Gasol was dominant at both ends. The Boomers blew every chance. But sure, blame a vast anti Australian conspiracy because of one blown call.
i mean commentators in my language was talking that Scola was really putting in the individual preparation for this. Waking 6 in the morning to get some work done with personal trainers, before other preparations. Pretty cool to see the outcome of his hard work.
