Early Top 8 in the East projections.

[mademan]

I'm not nearly as sold on them as most, I like the team but overall I just dont see them being as good as they were last year

Even still, they just have to be better than their Atlantic counterparts, of which there's only 1 other possible PO team (BKN)

seriously so what you're saying is the Knicks have no shot at possibly making the playoffs after missing by 1 game and upgrading the coaching staff, PG and depth of the team along with having a top 5 player

Not "no shot", but they are going against the odds. ATL/CHA/TOR/WAS should all, at the very least imo, be as good as they were last year. CLE/CHI are both playoff locks imo (and 2 of the top seeds) and MIA/INDY, even after losing critical pieces, are still veteran PO teams with more talent than the Knicks. Then you throw teams like BKN and DET into the mix and the odds of the Knicks making it look pretty grim.

I mean, you guys swapped Felton/Chandler for Calderon/Dalembert (at best, a slight upgrade, more likely a push) and got a young end of bench player. I'm not sure how that vaults you into the PO.

[MoneyMitch]

Even still, they just have to be better than their Atlantic counterparts, of which there's only 1 other possible PO team (BKN)

seriously so what you're saying is the Knicks have no shot at possibly making the playoffs after missing by 1 game and upgrading the coaching staff, PG and depth of the team along with having a top 5 player

Yes, the coaching staff is better, but they didn't upgrade the depth of the team. Going from Chandler, even an admittedly worse Chandler, to Dalembert will be grim. It's basically Jose Calderon, JR Smith, Carmelo and a bunch of rookies on this team. Carmelo couldn't carry a team to the playoffs last year. Some better coaching may get them the 7th or 8th seed.

Knicks lost a ton of close games last year mainly due to poor coaching and adjustments, hell if we pull out 2 of those games we're in the playoffs

Phil will be the leader of this team for the most part when it comes to strategy and gameplanning I'm sure of that with Fish being the talking head early on

Melo will improve he's gotten better the past few years
Calderon will bring consistency to the team at the 1 spot
Smith/Shumpert/Hardaway/Early will provide energy, athleticism, scoring, defense, intangibles
Smith/Dalembert/Stoudemire/Bargnani is not ideal upfront but serviceable for right now

Point is its too early to right the Knicks off and anoint the Raptors Kings of the Atlantic

[MoneyMitch]

Even still, they just have to be better than their Atlantic counterparts, of which there's only 1 other possible PO team (BKN)

seriously so what you're saying is the Knicks have no shot at possibly making the playoffs after missing by 1 game and upgrading the coaching staff, PG and depth of the team along with having a top 5 player

Not "no shot", but they are going against the odds. ATL/CHA/TOR/WAS should all, at the very least imo, be as good as they were last year. CLE/CHI are both playoff locks imo (and 2 of the top seeds) and MIA/INDY, even after losing critical pieces, are still veteran PO teams with more talent than the Knicks. Then you throw teams like BKN and DET into the mix and the odds of the Knicks making it look pretty grim.

I mean, you guys swapped Felton/Chandler for Calderon/Dalembert (at best, a slight upgrade, more likely a push) and got a young end of bench player. I'm not sure how that vaults you into the PO.

I feel like we'll be a team you cant judge in November/December as we'll look different come March/April after guys get some experience together

as for the upgrade from Chandler to Dalembert it probably wont even be noticeable as it seems like Dalembert has already been declared a back up

Calderon is a HUGE upgrade over Felton mainly because of the consistency he'd bring to the offense

We're in for a good race next year though, it'll be fun to watch

[kombayn]

With some of these moves and LeBron going to the Cavs, the East is wide-open and is going to be a lot better than last year. I hate how people try to bag on the conference because the West has been so consistent but the NBA is getting better in general parity, expansion could hurt that. The NBA should've contracted by 2 teams when they had the chance, they still would get the big money TV deal and the talent-pool on the teams would be that more talented.

[watpho71]

IMO the Raptors are being slightly, just slightly overrated

I think they overachieved last year and they didn't add much to their team this off-season

I think Toronto can make the playoffs but by no means are they a lock in my opinion

1) Raptors had 50 Pythagorean Wins and were the only team in the Eastern Conference to be ranked in the Top 10 in both offense and defense. Those statistics suggest that the Raptors' success is sustainable.

2) We added Lou Williams, James Johnson and re-signed our entire core.

Its a new year, a lot has changed for a ton of teams

Cavs are better
Hornets are better
Wizards should be just as good as they were last year
Knicks, Pistons and Nets have new/better coaches
Celtics IMO will be better
Pacers/Heat will probably be worse but still good teams
Bulls will be good, how good who knows
Magic will be competitive
Hawks added Sefolosha and get Horford back

too many variables to pencil in a team especially the Raptors, who weren't even picked as a playoff team last year during the off-season

I personally feel the Knicks will win the division, maybe I have some homerism but thats my belief overall but I am not saying its a lock

I think both sides have a good argument. I like any team that was successful one season and can bring back their roster in tact and that bodes well for TOR. The additions of L. Williams and J. Johnson were subtle, yet they will provide nice additions to the second unit. They are a well balanced team and they are only going to get better in my opinion. They are very strong at PG and have two young athletic wing players. If anything you could question their depth behind Valanciunas and wonder which Amir Johnson you're going to get night in and night out.

The other side of the argument is somewhat justified because Eastern Conference opponents have been strengthened this off season. Although, considering TOR is coming off a 3 seed and the two teams ahead of them were weakened, I would rather be on the other side of the argument. It's never a lock, because teams need their health, but TOR should be successful once again this season. They should win their division which guarantees them top 4 seed. BRK is the only team that could take the division from them.

[Ignitowsky]

These are the current odds of coming out of the East at one Vegas site I checked

Cleveland Cavaliers 27/20
Chicago Bulls 16/5
Indiana Pacers 7/1
Washington Wizards 15/1
Toronto Raptors 25/1
New York Knicks 25/1
Miami Heat 25/1
Brooklyn Nets 30/1
Charlotte Hornets 35/1
Atlanta Hawks 35/1
Boston Celtics 50/1
Orlando Magic 65/1
Detroit Pistons 100/1
Milwaukee Bucks 150/1
Philadelphia 76ers 250/1

[bongmarley]

Chicago, Cleveland and Indy all being in same division also hurts their records because they have to play each other more times then all the rest of the teams in the east

[Troubadour]

IMO the Raptors are being slightly, just slightly overrated

I think they overachieved last year and they didn't add much to their team this off-season

I think Toronto can make the playoffs but by no means are they a lock in my opinion

1) Raptors had 50 Pythagorean Wins and were the only team in the Eastern Conference to be ranked in the Top 10 in both offense and defense. Those statistics suggest that the Raptors' success is sustainable.

2) We added Lou Williams, James Johnson and re-signed our entire core.

Its a new year, a lot has changed for a ton of teams

Cavs are better
Hornets are better
Wizards should be just as good as they were last year
Knicks, Pistons and Nets have new/better coaches
Celtics IMO will be better
Pacers/Heat will probably be worse but still good teams
Bulls will be good, how good who knows
Magic will be competitive
Hawks added Sefolosha and get Horford back

too many variables to pencil in a team especially the Raptors, who weren't even picked as a playoff team last year during the off-season

I personally feel the Knicks will win the division, maybe I have some homerism but thats my belief overall but I am not saying its a lock

Cavs got better, Heat got worse as a result
Hornets got better, Pacers got A LOT worse as a result
Wizards lost Ariza and I don't expect Pierce to come close to the job Ariza did on defense
So do the Bucks. Where are they in your rankings? They added more talent than the Pistons did.
Why will the Celtics be better? Because they added another PG? They're not making the playoffs with that roster
Bulls will be good, but will only go as far as Derrick Rose takes them
So will the Bucks...
Adding Sefolosha isn't a good thing

You're grasping at straws. The Knicks may have Carmelo, but have very little going for them. Derek Fisher is unproven and the triangle historically does not translate well to teams not coached by Phil Jackson. We'll see what happens there. Outside of a new coach, the Knicks got objectively worse. Lost their starting center and still have no interior defense on the roster.

If a roster with Carmelo Anthony and Phil Jackson as the GM's goal is to get 39 wins and squeak into the playoffs, congratulations on a realistic target.

[MoneyMitch]

1) Raptors had 50 Pythagorean Wins and were the only team in the Eastern Conference to be ranked in the Top 10 in both offense and defense. Those statistics suggest that the Raptors' success is sustainable.

2) We added Lou Williams, James Johnson and re-signed our entire core.

Its a new year, a lot has changed for a ton of teams

Cavs are better
Hornets are better
Wizards should be just as good as they were last year
Knicks, Pistons and Nets have new/better coaches
Celtics IMO will be better
Pacers/Heat will probably be worse but still good teams
Bulls will be good, how good who knows
Magic will be competitive
Hawks added Sefolosha and get Horford back

too many variables to pencil in a team especially the Raptors, who weren't even picked as a playoff team last year during the off-season

I personally feel the Knicks will win the division, maybe I have some homerism but thats my belief overall but I am not saying its a lock

Cavs got better, Heat got worse as a result
Hornets got better, Pacers got A LOT worse as a result
Wizards lost Ariza and I don't expect Pierce to come close to the job Ariza did on defense
So do the Bucks. Where are they in your rankings? They added more talent than the Pistons did.
Why will the Celtics be better? Because they added another PG? They're not making the playoffs with that roster
Bulls will be good, but will only go as far as Derrick Rose takes them
So will the Bucks...
Adding Sefolosha isn't a good thing

You're grasping at straws. The Knicks may have Carmelo, but have very little going for them. Derek Fisher is unproven and the triangle historically does not translate well to teams not coached by Phil Jackson. We'll see what happens there. Outside of a new coach, the Knicks got objectively worse. Lost their starting center and still have no interior defense on the roster.

If a roster with Carmelo Anthony and Phil Jackson as the GM's goal is to get 39 wins and squeak into the playoffs, congratulations on a realistic target.

you're missing the entire point

[DG88]

seriously so what you're saying is the Knicks have no shot at possibly making the playoffs after missing by 1 game and upgrading the coaching staff, PG and depth of the team along with having a top 5 player

You have Bargnani on your team, he'll end any playoff hopes.

[MoneyMitch]

seriously so what you're saying is the Knicks have no shot at possibly making the playoffs after missing by 1 game and upgrading the coaching staff, PG and depth of the team along with having a top 5 player

You have Bargnani on your team, he'll end any playoff hopes.

[Illmatic12]

These are the current odds of coming out of the East at one Vegas site I checked

Cleveland Cavaliers 27/20
Chicago Bulls 16/5
Indiana Pacers 7/1
Washington Wizards 15/1
Toronto Raptors 25/1
New York Knicks 25/1
Miami Heat 25/1
Brooklyn Nets 30/1
Charlotte Hornets 35/1
Atlanta Hawks 35/1
Boston Celtics 50/1
Orlando Magic 65/1
Detroit Pistons 100/1
Milwaukee Bucks 150/1
Philadelphia 76ers 250/1

Someone posted that earlier, it was from before the Lance departure.





I think the Raptors will win the Atlantic and make the playoffs, but I could easily see them losing with HCA again. Say they get 4th seed by default, that 5th seed is gonna be either Chicago or Cleveland (whoever doesn't win the Central). That's just gonna be brutal for them, especially with their team being more finesse and not really having the bruisers to win in the playoffs.

[DG88]

seriously so what you're saying is the Knicks have no shot at possibly making the playoffs after missing by 1 game and upgrading the coaching staff, PG and depth of the team along with having a top 5 player

You have Bargnani on your team, he'll end any playoff hopes.

The problem for the Knicks will be defense. It's the single glaring issue that makes me believe that they won't make the playoffs or come close to winning the Atlantic. Jose Calderon is a pylon on defense, trust me being a Raptors fan I know that. He can be brilliant as a PnR PG but his defense leaves much to be desired. JR Smith doesn't play much D either, Carmelo is decent but not great. Don't get me started on Bargnani and Stoudemire. Your only defenders in the lineup are Shumpert and Dalembert. That won't be enough to cover up the horrendous D in the starting lineup. I don't know how well Fisher is going to do as a HC but I'd be pretty conservative in thinking he can get you to the playoffs.

[kombayn]

I think the Knicks will make the playoffs. I put them as my 8th seed, the triangle is going to be very nice for this particular roster right now. Phil likes to put height on the floor and they have that right now, and Carmelo fills the Kobe role but very piss poor version of it.

[Bowser]

These are the current odds of coming out of the East at one Vegas site I checked

Cleveland Cavaliers 27/20
Chicago Bulls 16/5
Indiana Pacers 7/1
Washington Wizards 15/1
Toronto Raptors 25/1
New York Knicks 25/1
Miami Heat 25/1
Brooklyn Nets 30/1
Charlotte Hornets 35/1
Atlanta Hawks 35/1
Boston Celtics 50/1
Orlando Magic 65/1
Detroit Pistons 100/1
Milwaukee Bucks 150/1
Philadelphia 76ers 250/1

Someone posted that earlier, it was from before the Lance departure.





I think the Raptors will win the Atlantic and make the playoffs, but I could easily see them losing with HCA again. Say they get 4th seed by default, that 5th seed is gonna be either Chicago or Cleveland (whoever doesn't win the Central). That's just gonna be brutal for them, especially with their team being more finesse and not really having the bruisers to win in the playoffs.

Seeding doesn't work this way anymore. The top 4 teams in a conference are seeded by record so that if the 2nd best team in a particular division has a better record than the other two division winners, they get the #2 seed rather than the 4th or 5th seed (e.g. Cleveland and Chicago potentially next season). Toronto was the 3rd seed last season BTW.

[Illmatic12]

These are the current odds of coming out of the East at one Vegas site I checked

Cleveland Cavaliers 27/20
Chicago Bulls 16/5
Indiana Pacers 7/1
Washington Wizards 15/1
Toronto Raptors 25/1
New York Knicks 25/1
Miami Heat 25/1
Brooklyn Nets 30/1
Charlotte Hornets 35/1
Atlanta Hawks 35/1
Boston Celtics 50/1
Orlando Magic 65/1
Detroit Pistons 100/1
Milwaukee Bucks 150/1
Philadelphia 76ers 250/1

Someone posted that earlier, it was from before the Lance departure.





I think the Raptors will win the Atlantic and make the playoffs, but I could easily see them losing with HCA again. Say they get 4th seed by default, that 5th seed is gonna be either Chicago or Cleveland (whoever doesn't win the Central). That's just gonna be brutal for them, especially with their team being more finesse and not really having the bruisers to win in the playoffs.

Seeding doesn't work this way anymore. The top 4 teams in a conference are seeded by record so that if the 2nd best team in a particular division has a better record than the other two division winners, they get the #2 seed rather than the 4th or 5th seed (e.g. Cleveland and Chicago potentially next season). Toronto was the 3rd seed last season BTW.

I don't think Chicago or Cleveland will necessarily have the 2nd best regular season record, just that going into the playoffs those will be the two teams to beat. I think the 5th seed is going to be a very strong team that lost some games due to how tough their division is.

[Bowser]

Someone posted that earlier, it was from before the Lance departure.





I think the Raptors will win the Atlantic and make the playoffs, but I could easily see them losing with HCA again. Say they get 4th seed by default, that 5th seed is gonna be either Chicago or Cleveland (whoever doesn't win the Central). That's just gonna be brutal for them, especially with their team being more finesse and not really having the bruisers to win in the playoffs.

Seeding doesn't work this way anymore. The top 4 teams in a conference are seeded by record so that if the 2nd best team in a particular division has a better record than the other two division winners, they get the #2 seed rather than the 4th or 5th seed (e.g. Cleveland and Chicago potentially next season). Toronto was the 3rd seed last season BTW.

I don't think Chicago or Cleveland will necessarily have the 2nd best regular season record, just that going into the playoffs those will be the two teams to beat. I think the 5th seed is going to be a very strong team that lost some games due to how tough their division is.

Ah ok. You can see how that would be hard to figure out from the way you worded your post. I think Cleveland is definitely a lock for a top 2 seed. Chicago I can see anywhere from 1-5 depending on Rose's health.

[Illmatic12]

Agreed. You gotta think with LBJ, the Cavs win their division with a great record.

But the Bulls are probably more likely to drop some games here and there, depending on Rose and how well Gasol meshes. And Pau will probably take a midseason sabbatical at some point, they really only brought him in for the playoffs.

[MoneyMitch]

You have Bargnani on your team, he'll end any playoff hopes.

The problem for the Knicks will be defense. It's the single glaring issue that makes me believe that they won't make the playoffs or come close to winning the Atlantic. Jose Calderon is a pylon on defense, trust me being a Raptors fan I know that. He can be brilliant as a PnR PG but his defense leaves much to be desired. JR Smith doesn't play much D either, Carmelo is decent but not great. Don't get me started on Bargnani and Stoudemire. Your only defenders in the lineup are Shumpert and Dalembert. That won't be enough to cover up the horrendous D in the starting lineup. I don't know how well Fisher is going to do as a HC but I'd be pretty conservative in thinking he can get you to the playoffs.

while we lack quality individual defenders I think we'll be much better as a team defensively

Phil is running this team not Woodson that alone tells me the effort will be there

As long as we stick to our assignments, limit how much we gamble and meet guys at the rim I think we'll be okay defensively

[Leto]

Chicago
Washington
Pacers
Toronto
Heat
Hawks
Hornets
Cavs

In no particular order, I think those will be the best 8 teams in the East with the Hawks on the bubble. Nets, I think, have the best chance of getting in after Atlanta.