How good is Jokic? [Poll added]

[Knicksfan20]

Chris Webber is a guy who was very similar to Jokic. Not quite the passer Jokic is but certainly a very efficient big who could pass the ball. Webbert was a better athlete and defender than Jokic.

Um....what? How do you see Chris Webber in him at all? That comparison makes 0 sense.

Not saying that they were the same but C-Webb passsing abilities were great...

So was Jason Williams....Is he Chris Paul?

[Johnny Firpo]

So was Jason Williams....Is he Chris Paul?

I hope you are not implying that Jokic is Jason Williams, and Webber was Chris Paul, because that would indeed be a terrible analogy.

[Knicksfan20]

So was Jason Williams....Is he Chris Paul?

I hope you are not implying that Jokic is Jason Williams, and Webber was Chris Paul, because that would indeed be a terrible analogy.

No...what would be a terrible analogy would be comparing Chris Webber to Jokic just because Webber could pass well. Seeing how they are built totally different with different skill sets and athletic ability... it makes no sense to compare them to one another. Its Like Comparing Marc Gasol to Boris Diaw because both players can pass well.


Jokic is better then Diaw and White Chocolate obviously, just making a point.

[Johnny Firpo]

Jokic is better then Diaw and White Chocolate obviously, just making a point.

I agree with that, but it kind of felt you implied that Jokic is an inferior talent, which I would not agree with, Webber being picked first or not.

[Ryoga Hibiki]

Chris Webber is a guy who was very similar to Jokic. Not quite the passer Jokic is but certainly a very efficient big who could pass the ball. Webbert was a better athlete and defender than Jokic.

Um....what? How do you see Chris Webber in him at all? That comparison makes 0 sense.

Not saying that they were the same but C-Webb passsing abilities were great...

but Webber wasn't efficient, at all.

[kololoco]

Wait a second... a year ago Minnesota had the better team. Now there are excuses?

I wonder how much of that was Jokic making his teammates better. He is good at that, ya know?

Denver won 9 more games, so theres 9 more games to split into your advanced metrics. They also played a more modern style of offense, with far more 3's and far fewer long 2's than the wolves, which also is heavily favored in advanced statistics. You cultists cant look beyond your advanced stats to see the difference in situations between the players. How about this, watch this video and count how many times Advanced Stats is double teamed compared to Towns. Watch this video and look at how Advanced Stats gets his points vs how Towns has to get his. One is taking on the burden of a star, the other gets to play between the cracks like a role player.

Watch on YouTube

You will see Towns drive and dunk on Advanced Stats skull, get tip ins on him, score on post moves, score on turnarounds, score on face up jumpers, knock down 3's, drive and score...the full arsenal of an elite offensive talent that he brings *every* night. You will see Advanced Stats with a couple chip shot 5 footers from somebody elses creation, one post score, and one elbow drive.

Looking at how the opposing team plays them is all you have to see to know who the better offensive player is. Sorry but getting Zach Lavine on a couple back door passes doesnt impress me, in fact it highlights some of the defensive stupidity Towns has been saddled with so far. I didnt bother to count the number of times Denver had to double Towns but it was basically every post possession yet he still either beat the double or made the right pass. Theres no reason to double Advanced Stats because hes nowhere near the offensive threat. If you people cant acknowledge the vastly different circumstances and level of defensive attention they encounter nightly then you are lost. Towns puts up his ridiculous numbers on high usage and fantastic efficiency against waves of defenders.

Have you thought about the idea that maybe Jokic is never double teamed is because his passing perfection would always find the open man. And that Towns has to struggle with double teams because teams know he does not have such vision and therefore can force him into togher shots? If Jokic went to a team of world beaters we could argue that he has great teammates and that that allows him to pass the ball, like the situation Rondo was. But here, we have a mediocre team that was plagued by injuries whole season, had problems in line up managment for more then a month, and still surpassed expectations. Jokic has not been doing backdoor passes only on LaVine, but on every single team in the league. But obviously you only watch Minnesota and your knowledge starts and ends there. And how much of an offensive threat someone is doesn't just rely on his ability to score, but to create the whole offense. And you can easily see that in points scored with him on floor vs with him out. That is not advanced stats, that is some basic ****. He has otherworldly passing, amazing midrange, great back to basket game and solid three point and face up game. He is a complete threat. You are the type of person that would pick Kobe before Duncan because he dunks on people and has more ppg. Towns is a good player, but he a classic offensive, my points first player. What we are seeing in Jokices game is something transcendant, that only a few greats had that does not show in statistics. That is why you will never understand.

[durden-tyler]

Um....what? How do you see Chris Webber in him at all? That comparison makes 0 sense.

Not saying that they were the same but C-Webb passsing abilities were great...

but Webber wasn't efficient, at all.

Just to be clear, I was not the one who compared Jokic to Webber, but Knicksfan20 is acting as if they don’t have anything in common, which is not the case, because both are big men who can pass really well with an offense build around them. It’s not like « Village Idiot » compared Jokic to Manute Bol… Sure they are different players, Webber was much more athletic, Jokic is more efficient, but there are some simiarities, even if I wouldn’t say they are « VERY similar »…

[Rashoismydad]

Have you thought about the idea that maybe Jokic is never double teamed is because his passing perfection would always find the open man. And that Towns has to struggle with double teams because teams know he does not have such vision and therefore can force him into togher shots? If Jokic went to a team of world beaters we could argue that he has great teammates and that that allows him to pass the ball, like the situation Rondo was. But here, we have a mediocre team that was plagued by injuries whole season, had problems in line up managment for more then a month, and still surpassed expectations. Jokic has not been doing backdoor passes only on LaVine, but on every single team in the league. But obviously you only watch Minnesota and your knowledge starts and ends there. And how much of an offensive threat someone is doesn't just rely on his ability to score, but to create the whole offense. And you can easily see that in points scored with him on floor vs with him out. That is not advanced stats, that is some basic ****. He has otherworldly passing, amazing midrange, great back to basket game and solid three point and face up game. He is a complete threat. You are the type of person that would pick Kobe before Duncan because he dunks on people and has more ppg. Towns is a good player, but he a classic offensive, my points first player. What we are seeing in Jokices game is something transcendant, that only a few greats had that does not show in statistics. That is why you will never understand.

Brad Miller posted seasons of 14/10/4.3, 15/8/5, 16/9/4

Theres your real comp, rich mans Brad Miller. Your illusions of some Dirk/Magic hybrid are embarrassing. Jokic is being so heavily overrated because he can throw a nice pass here and there and is in an offense to take advantage of it, its sad. Transcendant?!?! Go see a doctor, you arent well. Stick towns in the high post and tell him to deal and thats just what he would do. As I said, he averaged over 5 APG vs the nuggets, the most against any other team...you think thats coincidence? Thats Towns showing he can do it to if called to do so, its simply not his role.

[Wolfgang630]

Jokic's comp is Brad Miller?....

[sixerswillrule]

Have you thought about the idea that maybe Jokic is never double teamed is because his passing perfection would always find the open man. And that Towns has to struggle with double teams because teams know he does not have such vision and therefore can force him into togher shots? If Jokic went to a team of world beaters we could argue that he has great teammates and that that allows him to pass the ball, like the situation Rondo was. But here, we have a mediocre team that was plagued by injuries whole season, had problems in line up managment for more then a month, and still surpassed expectations. Jokic has not been doing backdoor passes only on LaVine, but on every single team in the league. But obviously you only watch Minnesota and your knowledge starts and ends there. And how much of an offensive threat someone is doesn't just rely on his ability to score, but to create the whole offense. And you can easily see that in points scored with him on floor vs with him out. That is not advanced stats, that is some basic ****. He has otherworldly passing, amazing midrange, great back to basket game and solid three point and face up game. He is a complete threat. You are the type of person that would pick Kobe before Duncan because he dunks on people and has more ppg. Towns is a good player, but he a classic offensive, my points first player. What we are seeing in Jokices game is something transcendant, that only a few greats had that does not show in statistics. That is why you will never understand.

Brad Miller posted seasons of 14/10/4.3, 15/8/5, 16/9/4

Theres your real comp, rich mans Brad Miller. Your illusions of some Dirk/Magic hybrid are embarrassing. Jokic is being so heavily overrated because he can throw a nice pass here and there and is in an offense to take advantage of it, its sad. Transcendant?!?! Go see a doctor, you arent well. Stick towns in the high post and tell him to deal and thats just what he would do. As I said, he averaged over 5 APG vs the nuggets, the most against any other team...you think thats coincidence? Thats Towns showing he can do it to if called to do so, its simply not his role.

Jokic will have to show that he can play more minutes at that level, but yes, per minute, 21 year old Jokic last season was a rich man's prime 26-28 year old Brad Miller. Very impressive.

[eathb_au]

I don't think we've seen a center like Jokic before.

Offensively the only thing he really lacks atm is an elite 3pt shooting %. There'd only be two or three bigs in NBA history that have transcendent passing ability.

[Alatan]

Jokic's comp is Brad Miller?....

Just let it go, some people are blinded by hatred. He obviously doesn't watch Denver play and only focuses on his homeboy Towns.

[Alatan]

As I said, he averaged over 5 APG vs the nuggets, the most against any other team...you think thats coincidence? Thats Towns showing he can do it to if called to do so, its simply not his role.

He had one game with 10 assists and one with 7 assists and 6 turnovers and all of a sudden he is equal to Jokic as a playmaker. Give me a **** break.

[tmorgan]

I actually really like "bigger, slower Larry Bird" as a comp for his ceiling.

People that didn't see him play think Larry was Reggie Miller or something, bombing threes and only showing off his passing from the perimeter. That's not even close to correct. He played inside and mid-range most of the time, threading passes in traffic and crashing the boards. He averaged 10 boards a game for his career, and was only listed as a SF because he played with McHale and Parrish. He was a big, like Jokic. Faster and thinner and a couple inches shorter, but there are a lot of similarities.

[Rashoismydad]

As I said, he averaged over 5 APG vs the nuggets, the most against any other team...you think thats coincidence? Thats Towns showing he can do it to if called to do so, its simply not his role.

He had one game with 10 assists and one with 7 assists and 6 turnovers and all of a sudden he is equal to Jokic as a playmaker. Give me a **** break.

Towns has always been known as a very gifted passer for a big, just because he doesnt rely on it like Jokic doesnt mean he is incapable. When he faces him he flat out shows "anything you can do..." and its not mere coincidence. Personally I wish they would take advantage of it more and let him deal from the high post.

http://fansided.com/2015/11/10/karl-anthony-towns-minnesota-timberwolves-passing-bulls-nuggets/

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Better call DX and tell them their strengths video should have an asterisk next to passing in honor of Advanced Stats greatness.

[Duke4life831]

Have you thought about the idea that maybe Jokic is never double teamed is because his passing perfection would always find the open man. And that Towns has to struggle with double teams because teams know he does not have such vision and therefore can force him into togher shots? If Jokic went to a team of world beaters we could argue that he has great teammates and that that allows him to pass the ball, like the situation Rondo was. But here, we have a mediocre team that was plagued by injuries whole season, had problems in line up managment for more then a month, and still surpassed expectations. Jokic has not been doing backdoor passes only on LaVine, but on every single team in the league. But obviously you only watch Minnesota and your knowledge starts and ends there. And how much of an offensive threat someone is doesn't just rely on his ability to score, but to create the whole offense. And you can easily see that in points scored with him on floor vs with him out. That is not advanced stats, that is some basic ****. He has otherworldly passing, amazing midrange, great back to basket game and solid three point and face up game. He is a complete threat. You are the type of person that would pick Kobe before Duncan because he dunks on people and has more ppg. Towns is a good player, but he a classic offensive, my points first player. What we are seeing in Jokices game is something transcendant, that only a few greats had that does not show in statistics. That is why you will never understand.

Brad Miller posted seasons of 14/10/4.3, 15/8/5, 16/9/4

Theres your real comp, rich mans Brad Miller. Your illusions of some Dirk/Magic hybrid are embarrassing. Jokic is being so heavily overrated because he can throw a nice pass here and there and is in an offense to take advantage of it, its sad. Transcendant?!?! Go see a doctor, you arent well. Stick towns in the high post and tell him to deal and thats just what he would do. As I said, he averaged over 5 APG vs the nuggets, the most against any other team...you think thats coincidence? Thats Towns showing he can do it to if called to do so, its simply not his role.

Im becoming more and more convinced that you just havent really seen Jokic play that much. Brad Miller was a pretty damn good player but skill wise its not even close between him and Jokic. Miller doesnt come close to the efficiency that Jokic plays with. And lets compare Miller's 15/8/5 (4.7) season. It took him 37 minutes to get those numbers and he shot 49% from the field and had a 57 TS%. Jokic last year put up 16/10/5 in 28 minutes a game and shot 57% from the field and had a 64 TS%. And if you dig deeper into the facilitating numbers Jokic had a 28.8% AST% last year, Miller's career high was 21.5%.

Jokic is an extremely rich version of Brad Miller where the gap is so wide that its pretty pointless to even make the comparison. Then you add in the fact we are comparing a 2nd year 21 year old to a guy that was in his lat 20s and in his prime. Brad Miller wasnt even in the NBA at 21 and he didnt average 4 assists a game till he was 27.

And Jokic was pretty transcendent last year. Denver was middle of the pack offensively, then Jokic gets put into the starting lineup and all of a sudden Denver has a better offense than GS with Curry/KD/Klay. And you saying Towns can be just as good of a passer is just showing how bias you are and not willing to actually look at this from all angles. Jokic is one of the best big man passers we have seen in a very long time and youre saying if you put Towns in the same system he would do the same. If Towns could do that, Minny would be running that system.

[Kabookalu]

I actually really like "bigger, slower Larry Bird" as a comp for his ceiling.

People that didn't see him play think Larry was Reggie Miller or something, bombing threes and only showing off his passing from the perimeter. That's not even close to correct. He played inside and mid-range most of the time, threading passes in traffic and crashing the boards. He averaged 10 boards a game for his career, and was only listed as a SF because he played with McHale and Parrish. He was a big, like Jokic. Faster and thinner and a couple inches shorter, but there are a lot of similarities.

I want to disagree with this, but I can't find any reason to.

This upcoming season I think will be telling if Jokic is a superstar or not. I'm not entirely convinced of his scoring game. I believe that his passing game is so damn elite that it makes his scoring a lot better than it looks, and the league hasn't found a way to guard a player like him because he's so one of a kind. A full offseason of teams breaking his game down, we'll see how Jokic adjusts. He's still a damn good scorer, I'm not suggesting that he's just going to lose his skill and efficiency overnight, but I haven't yet fully bought that he's a superstar scorer the way some are suggesting.

[Alatan]

Spoiler:

As I said, he averaged over 5 APG vs the nuggets, the most against any other team...you think thats coincidence? Thats Towns showing he can do it to if called to do so, its simply not his role.

He had one game with 10 assists and one with 7 assists and 6 turnovers and all of a sudden he is equal to Jokic as a playmaker. Give me a **** break.

Towns has always been known as a very gifted passer for a big, just because he doesnt rely on it like Jokic doesnt mean he is incapable. When he faces him he flat out shows "anything you can do..." and its not mere coincidence. Personally I wish they would take advantage of it more and let him deal from the high post.

http://fansided.com/2015/11/10/karl-anthony-towns-minnesota-timberwolves-passing-bulls-nuggets/

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Better call DX and tell them their strengths video should have an asterisk next to passing in honor of Advanced Stats greatness.

I never said Towns wasn't a good passer but you clearly dont distinguish a good passer from a playmaker.

[Duke4life831]

As I said, he averaged over 5 APG vs the nuggets, the most against any other team...you think thats coincidence? Thats Towns showing he can do it to if called to do so, its simply not his role.

He had one game with 10 assists and one with 7 assists and 6 turnovers and all of a sudden he is equal to Jokic as a playmaker. Give me a **** break.

Towns has always been known as a very gifted passer for a big, just because he doesnt rely on it like Jokic doesnt mean he is incapable. When he faces him he flat out shows "anything you can do..." and its not mere coincidence. Personally I wish they would take advantage of it more and let him deal from the high post.

http://fansided.com/2015/11/10/karl-anthony-towns-minnesota-timberwolves-passing-bulls-nuggets/

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Better call DX and tell them their strengths video should have an asterisk next to passing in honor of Advanced Stats greatness.

I dont recall anyone saying Towns is an incapable passer. Theyre just saying he isnt the playmaker Jokic is. Also since in the NBA Towns hasnt been that great of a playmaker. He has more TOs than assists in his career and has never averaged more than 2 assists a game and last year had a 13.3 AST%. Again hes not an incapable passer, but no hes not even close to the playmaker Jokic is. This would be like saying an average 3pt shooter is the same level shooter as Klay Thompson.

[12footrim]

Have you thought about the idea that maybe Jokic is never double teamed is because his passing perfection would always find the open man. And that Towns has to struggle with double teams because teams know he does not have such vision and therefore can force him into togher shots? If Jokic went to a team of world beaters we could argue that he has great teammates and that that allows him to pass the ball, like the situation Rondo was. But here, we have a mediocre team that was plagued by injuries whole season, had problems in line up managment for more then a month, and still surpassed expectations. Jokic has not been doing backdoor passes only on LaVine, but on every single team in the league. But obviously you only watch Minnesota and your knowledge starts and ends there. And how much of an offensive threat someone is doesn't just rely on his ability to score, but to create the whole offense. And you can easily see that in points scored with him on floor vs with him out. That is not advanced stats, that is some basic ****. He has otherworldly passing, amazing midrange, great back to basket game and solid three point and face up game. He is a complete threat. You are the type of person that would pick Kobe before Duncan because he dunks on people and has more ppg. Towns is a good player, but he a classic offensive, my points first player. What we are seeing in Jokices game is something transcendant, that only a few greats had that does not show in statistics. That is why you will never understand.

Brad Miller posted seasons of 14/10/4.3, 15/8/5, 16/9/4

Theres your real comp, rich mans Brad Miller. Your illusions of some Dirk/Magic hybrid are embarrassing. Jokic is being so heavily overrated because he can throw a nice pass here and there and is in an offense to take advantage of it, its sad. Transcendant?!?! Go see a doctor, you arent well. Stick towns in the high post and tell him to deal and thats just what he would do. As I said, he averaged over 5 APG vs the nuggets, the most against any other team...you think thats coincidence? Thats Towns showing he can do it to if called to do so, its simply not his role.

Jokic will have to show that he can play more minutes at that level, but yes, per minute, 21 year old Jokic last season was a rich man's prime 26-28 year old Brad Miller. Very impressive.

Not even close per minutes. It was taking Miller 9 more minutes a game to accomplish that statline and no mention of the significantly better .640% true shooting Jokic had....