The ROTY/Rookie Discussion Thread, Part III

draftnightsuit · Post #361 » by **draftnightsuit** » Mon Jan 22, 2018 1:51 am

Dennis Smith has been a huge disappointment considering all the hype he got leading up to the season. He was voted to be ROY by the rookie survey.

He and Fox were my picks for the most overrated prospects of this draft class and neither of them have shown me any reason to think that I was wrong.

PLO · Post #362 » by **PLO** » Mon Jan 22, 2018 2:55 am

draftnightsuit wrote:Dennis Smith has been a huge disappointment considering all the hype he got leading up to the season. He was voted to be ROY by the rookie survey.

He and Fox were my picks for the most overrated prospects of this draft class and neither of them have shown me any reason to think that I was wrong.

As I mentioned its pretty rare for a one and done guy to come in and light it up as a guard. The problem with Fox is that he's so light compared to the rest of the league, by the time he might develop into something good his rookie contract could well be over and he may well be on another team. We still don't know if he can put weight onto that very slender frame and whether he can do that or not I think is how his career will go.

Cappy_Smurf · Post #363 » by **Cappy_Smurf** » Mon Jan 22, 2018 5:08 am

sixerhp3 wrote:Does everyone on this board overlook Simmons' elite defense?? Watching games and looking at the stats Simmons is going to make some all-defense teams, yet people are still saying Mitchell because Simmons is in a temporary slump..

Mitchell is a really good defensive player as well. That was his real strength coming into the league. As for people saying Mitchell, the poll is very close right night, so people are saying simmons just as much. Why is it that Simmons fans are so offended that their guy has some competition? Mitchell has been really good and has earned his spot in the race for ROTY. Regardless who wins, both these players have future star potential and nobody should feel slighted if their guy gets edged out.

Watch on YouTube

dukes_wild · Post #364 » by **dukes_wild** » Mon Jan 22, 2018 5:21 am

draftnightsuit wrote:Dennis Smith has been a huge disappointment considering all the hype he got leading up to the season. He was voted to be ROY by the rookie survey.

He and Fox were my picks for the most overrated prospects of this draft class and neither of them have shown me any reason to think that I was wrong.

Lol, DSJ got hype for what he will be, not what he is now.

He's going to be an all star within 5 years.

Kolkmania · Post #365 » by **Kolkmania** » Mon Jan 22, 2018 8:24 am

levon wrote:
stitches wrote:Here's your daily Donovan Mitchell fix:

Watch on YouTube

He honestly looks just as good of a playmaker at this level as Simmons, because he makes the right reads at the opportune times and is a huge threat to score if there's no pass within his comfort zone available. Extremely impressive. I see the Wade comparison with that high dribble pickup on his drives.

People are far too often fooled by assist numbers.

Depends on the definition of playmaker, Mitchell is certainly more capable as a shot creator for himself around the perimeter, but Simmons seems to be a better shot creator for others. The potential assist discrepancy between the two is massive and Mitchell's AST/TOV ratio is worse despite having a smaller role in terms of creating for others.

Fat · Post #366 » by **Fat** » Mon Jan 22, 2018 2:44 pm

draftnightsuit wrote:Dennis Smith has been a huge disappointment considering all the hype he got leading up to the season. He was voted to be ROY by the rookie survey.

He and Fox were my picks for the most overrated prospects of this draft class and neither of them have shown me any reason to think that I was wrong.

you must of had some huge expectations then, i think he's had a pretty good rookie season and he's been playing well as of lately.

draftnightsuit · Post #367 » by **draftnightsuit** » Mon Jan 22, 2018 3:06 pm

dukes_wild wrote:
draftnightsuit wrote:Dennis Smith has been a huge disappointment considering all the hype he got leading up to the season. He was voted to be ROY by the rookie survey.

He and Fox were my picks for the most overrated prospects of this draft class and neither of them have shown me any reason to think that I was wrong.

Lol, DSJ got hype for what he will be, not what he is now.

He's going to be an all star within 5 years.

No, it was the complete opposite. Smith was hyped up as an instant star and the front runner for ROY.

Nobody was talking about his upside or potential. His game is based solely on his athleticism. Players of his mold (D-Rose, Francis) usually peak early and then trend downwards.

Smith was supposed to be what Mitchell is now.

BetterCallSaul · Post #368 » by **BetterCallSaul** » Mon Jan 22, 2018 3:22 pm

draftnightsuit wrote:
dukes_wild wrote:
draftnightsuit wrote:Dennis Smith has been a huge disappointment considering all the hype he got leading up to the season. He was voted to be ROY by the rookie survey.

He and Fox were my picks for the most overrated prospects of this draft class and neither of them have shown me any reason to think that I was wrong.

Lol, DSJ got hype for what he will be, not what he is now.

He's going to be an all star within 5 years.

No, it was the complete opposite. Smith was hyped up as an instant star and the front runner for ROY.

Nobody was talking about his upside or potential. His game is based solely on his athleticism. Players of his mold (D-Rose, Francis) usually peak early and then trend downwards.

Smith was supposed to be what Mitchell is now.

From what I've watched, and I'd love to be corrected by Mavs fans if I'm wrong, DSJ started off with some big games but was playing a very bad brand of basketball. Lots of dribbling, incohesive offence etc.
When I watch him now, it seems that Carlisle has started getting him into some better habits, being more focused on both ends, not dribbling the clock all the way down with the ball in his hands and learning to play in a winning system. I think DSJ and Carlisle probably had a chat about his development curve and Carlisle told DSJ that if he trusts him then he may not win ROY and get the gaudy numbers, but he will still have a green light as long as he is developing those good habits while he plays.

I think DSJ will be one of those guards that gets it and once he does it'll all come together because he has all the skill and athleticism he needs and more.

dukes_wild · Post #369 » by **dukes_wild** » Mon Jan 22, 2018 3:49 pm

draftnightsuit wrote:
dukes_wild wrote:
draftnightsuit wrote:Dennis Smith has been a huge disappointment considering all the hype he got leading up to the season. He was voted to be ROY by the rookie survey.

He and Fox were my picks for the most overrated prospects of this draft class and neither of them have shown me any reason to think that I was wrong.

Lol, DSJ got hype for what he will be, not what he is now.

He's going to be an all star within 5 years.

No, it was the complete opposite. Smith was hyped up as an instant star and the front runner for ROY.

Nobody was talking about his upside or potential. His game is based solely on his athleticism. Players of his mold (D-Rose, Francis) usually peak early and then trend downwards.

Smith was supposed to be what Mitchell is now.

No lol

E-Balla · Post #370 » by **E-Balla** » Mon Jan 22, 2018 4:45 pm

DroseReturnChi wrote:
KqWIN wrote:
GameBredAPBT wrote:
He isn't even close to the prospect that Mitchell is. He also has a blown out knee, which is a massive strike against him.

Most overrated guy in the draft besides Ball & has Stevie Franchise written all over him. Although he seems to have more brains that Franchise, which isn't saying a whole lot.

How terrible it would be for DSJ to become a multiple time all star. What a bust!

Even if DSJ becomes 2 time all star the ACL thing is big fat negative. His career wont last for 10 years and will lose all the limited explosion by 30.

DSJ had an extra ACL. That's why he was dunking 2 months after his surgery. Adrian Peterson also had an extra ligament and he had 5551 yards from scrimmage and 35 TDs on 5.0 ypc in the 3 years after tearing his ACL before falling victim to old age.

GreatWhiteStiff · Post #371 » by **GreatWhiteStiff** » Mon Jan 22, 2018 4:50 pm

Lonzo's last 18 games he's plays he's shooting 36% on 6 threes a game. Seems like a weakness has become a strength. Maybe Gilbert Arenas should probably stay retired when it comes to all areas of basketball.

stitches · Post #372 » by **stitches** » Mon Jan 22, 2018 4:57 pm

GreatWhiteStiff wrote:Lonzo's last 18 games he's plays he's shooting 36% on 6 threes a game. Seems like a weakness has become a strength. Maybe Gilbert Arenas should probably stay retired when it comes to all areas of basketball.

Or maybe 18 games is not enough of a sample to pronounce his shot weakness or strength?

Filthadelphia · Post #373 » by **Filthadelphia** » Mon Jan 22, 2018 6:05 pm

dukes_wild wrote:
draftnightsuit wrote:Dennis Smith has been a huge disappointment considering all the hype he got leading up to the season. He was voted to be ROY by the rookie survey.

He and Fox were my picks for the most overrated prospects of this draft class and neither of them have shown me any reason to think that I was wrong.

Lol, DSJ got hype for what he will be, not what he is now.

He's going to be an all star within 5 years.

As a guard in the West? Dubious

cool007 · Post #374 » by **cool007** » Mon Jan 22, 2018 7:06 pm

IMO, not all rookies just dominate or play really good in their first year - especially point guards. I still am really high on Fox/DSJ/Lonzo ball etc. Usually by their 3rd year, you can tell if they are going to be star/superstar type players just a role player and fringe all-star.

One rookie that I am totally disappointed so far is Fultz. His shooting mechanic makes me puke. I really hope he gets back to how he was last year in college and builds on it. I really hope so.

I really like Bulls rookie, I think he has a pretty damn high ceiling. Even as a very raw, Markkanen is still playing this good which is just amazing.

mediocrityrules · Post #375 » by **mediocrityrules** » Mon Jan 22, 2018 8:32 pm

Fultz back in a couple of weeks?

Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

Post #376 » by **Duke4life831** » Mon Jan 22, 2018 9:57 pm

draftnightsuit wrote:Dennis Smith has been a huge disappointment considering all the hype he got leading up to the season. He was voted to be ROY by the rookie survey.

He and Fox were my picks for the most overrated prospects of this draft class and neither of them have shown me any reason to think that I was wrong.

He definitely had a slow start to the season and he's been dealing with some nagging injuries but he's been pretty good for a rookie PG especially since he returned after missing a couple weeks. One thing that is very promising for him is how he has been progressing during the season.

Season stats:
14/4/4 on 40/33/70 shooting

His last month:
15/4/5 on 42/37/76 shooting

His last 10 games:
18/4/6 on 45/40/79 shooting

We are just halfway through the season, but if he can keep up his play as of late for the rest of the season, that would be a ROTY quality season. He just happens to be playing the same time as Simmons, Mitchell, Tatum and Lauri who are all putting up great numbers. It's not rare for rookie PGs to struggle especially early on. DSJ as of late has really started to show why do many people were so high on him.

PLO · Post #377 » by **PLO** » Mon Jan 22, 2018 10:58 pm

DSJ was picked ninth in the draft, it wasn’t as if he was this all-world prospect.

Nate Duncan recently mentioned that he thought Mitchell is a better defender than Simmons which makes me suspect Nate Duncan does not watch many actual NBA games. Mitchell was an outstanding college defender who is likely struggling a bit in that end in the NBA because of his great work offensively. Over time you’d have to think he’ll work out a better balance between the two parts of his game given how good he was in college.

Trippinskarlo · Post #378 » by **Trippinskarlo** » Tue Jan 23, 2018 1:33 am

Cappy_Smurf wrote:
sixerhp3 wrote:Does everyone on this board overlook Simmons' elite defense?? Watching games and looking at the stats Simmons is going to make some all-defense teams, yet people are still saying Mitchell because Simmons is in a temporary slump..

Mitchell is a really good defensive player as well. That was his real strength coming into the league. As for people saying Mitchell, the poll is very close right night, so people are saying simmons just as much. Why is it that Simmons fans are so offended that their guy has some competition? Mitchell has been really good and has earned his spot in the race for ROTY. Regardless who wins, both these players have future star potential and nobody should feel slighted if their guy gets edged out.

Watch on YouTube

I had Mitchell pegged as an Avery Bradley type player. Lazy comp but I don't watch a ton of college ball. It appears he's actually closer to like a d-wade type prospect. Either way one thing I know is his defense is legit and at least passes the eye test for me. Only dude who really checked Tatum in summer league. I think he will be a legit two way star. What a find. Good scouting>tanking. I remember listening to a locked on podcast where David lock said the jazz had him really high on their board, like top 5.

KqWIN · Post #379 » by **KqWIN** » Tue Jan 23, 2018 2:55 am

Mitchell had his worst game in a long time tonight. I expect a lot more coming as long as long as this rotation/minutes configuration continues. This is not me excusing his poor play, but he is being set up for failure right now. We'll see a lot of his warts highlighted as they were tonight.

A good portion of his minutes are being played with Rubio+Favors+Gobert and now he's playing almost exclusively with Rubio. Going to be tough sledding from here on out.

levon · Post #380 » by **levon** » Tue Jan 23, 2018 3:01 am

KqWIN wrote:Mitchell had his worst game in a long time tonight. I expect a lot more coming as long as long as this rotation/minutes configuration continues. This is not me excusing his poor play, but he is being set up for failure right now. We'll see a lot of his warts highlighted as they were tonight.

A good portion of his minutes are being played with Rubio+Favors+Gobert and now he's playing almost exclusively with Rubio. Going to be tough sledding from here on out.

I think out of all rookies, Simmons is the most set up to succeed this year. Might be tough for Mitchell to grab the ROTY

Who wins? (May select 2 options.)