2021-22 NBA MVP Discussion (Pt. 1)

[feyki]

Jokic is the best player by TPA. The best player in the best conference.

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Read on Twitter

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There are teammates of Curry/Giannis/KD in the top 40, Draymond, Pat Connaughton, Harden respectively. NONE for Jokic.

Read on Twitter

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As the impacts, Jokic at number one and 3 players behind him and then Butler. And rest are all stars.

But Nuggets are 17th best defence and Nets were 5th best defence with Jokic playing much better defensive players alongside him than KD. Switch KD and Jokic defensive TPA's, then I agree with that list.

[WarriorGM]

The Warriors roster is better

Why?

Why is it at the beginning of the season the people now saying the Warriors roster is better were predicting that the Warriors would be a playin team?

Well probably the dead giveaway is despite Curry shooting like 35% last 9 games and adding nothing else on the table they keep winning...

Didn't you hear? Curry has gravity. All he needs to do is step on the court and he is tilting the table.

[mademan]

Jokic is the best player by TPA. The best player in the best conference.

Read on Twitter

/photo/1

Read on Twitter

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There are teammates of Curry/Giannis/KD in the top 40, Draymond, Pat Connaughton, Harden respectively. NONE for Jokic.

Read on Twitter

/photo/1

As the impacts, Jokic at number one and 3 players behind him and then Butler. And rest are all stars.

But Nuggets are 17th best defence and Nets were 5th best defence with Jokic playing much better defensive players alongside him than KD. Switch KD and Jokic defensive TPA's, then I agree with that list.

The defense falls apart when Jokic hits the bench. The nuggets with Jokic are a better defensive team than the Nets with KD when both players are on the floor. The reason the nets are a better defensive team is because of the 15 min Jokic is on the bench

[Alatan]

Spoiler:

Jokic is the best player by TPA. The best player in the best conference.

Read on Twitter

/photo/1

Read on Twitter

/photo/1

There are teammates of Curry/Giannis/KD in the top 40, Draymond, Pat Connaughton, Harden respectively. NONE for Jokic.

Read on Twitter

/photo/1

As the impacts, Jokic at number one and 3 players behind him and then Butler. And rest are all stars.

But Nuggets are 17th best defence and Nets were 5th best defence with Jokic playing much better defensive players alongside him than KD. Switch KD and Jokic defensive TPA's, then I agree with that list.

Im really curious to hear who are those much better defensive players? Morris? Barton? 35 year old Green? Aaron Gordon for all his hype is painfully average on defense both in terms of stats and the eye test.

[Whopper_Sr]

Spoiler:

Jokic is the best player by TPA. The best player in the best conference.

Read on Twitter

/photo/1

Read on Twitter

/photo/1

There are teammates of Curry/Giannis/KD in the top 40, Draymond, Pat Connaughton, Harden respectively. NONE for Jokic.

Read on Twitter

/photo/1

As the impacts, Jokic at number one and 3 players behind him and then Butler. And rest are all stars.

But Nuggets are 17th best defence and Nets were 5th best defence with Jokic playing much better defensive players alongside him than KD. Switch KD and Jokic defensive TPA's, then I agree with that list.

Im really curious to hear who are those much better defensive players? Morris? Barton? 35 year old Green? Aaron Gordon for all his hype is painfully average on defense both in terms of stats and the eye test.

It's supposed to be Gordon but he's been mediocre. Jokic is clearly the best defender on the team. The Nuggets without him are both the worst offensive AND defensive team in the league. Zero identity on offense and give up the hard earned leads faster than you can blink.

[BelgradeNugget]

Spoiler:

As the impacts, Jokic at number one and 3 players behind him and then Butler. And rest are all stars.

But Nuggets are 17th best defence and Nets were 5th best defence with Jokic playing much better defensive players alongside him than KD. Switch KD and Jokic defensive TPA's, then I agree with that list.

Im really curious to hear who are those much better defensive players? Morris? Barton? 35 year old Green? Aaron Gordon for all his hype is painfully average on defense both in terms of stats and the eye test.

It's supposed to be Gordon but he's been mediocre. Jokic is clearly the best defender on the team. The Nuggets without him are both the worst offensive AND defensive team in the league. Zero identity on offense and give up the hard earned leads faster than you can blink.

Don't think that Nuggets big deference in def. rating with/without Jokic is just because he is very good defender. The fact is that JaMychal Green, Jokic backup has been terrible this season on both ends of the court.
Also I think that AG's impact has been underrated. He is guarding opposing PG's and bothering them with his size, quickness and length. Now Jokic can use his positioning in p'n'r and they have great defense (when healthy). Something similar was Simmons doing for 76ers, their defense dropped significantly when opposing p'n'r is defended with Maxey(Curry)/Embiid instead of Simmons/Embiid.
Anyway, after this season, we can definitely put to rest narrative that Jokic is not very good defender.

[Alatan]

Im really curious to hear who are those much better defensive players? Morris? Barton? 35 year old Green? Aaron Gordon for all his hype is painfully average on defense both in terms of stats and the eye test.

It's supposed to be Gordon but he's been mediocre. Jokic is clearly the best defender on the team. The Nuggets without him are both the worst offensive AND defensive team in the league. Zero identity on offense and give up the hard earned leads faster than you can blink.

Don't think that Nuggets big deference in def. rating with/without Jokic is just because he is very good defender. The fact is that JaMychal Green, Jokic backup has been terrible this season on both ends of the court.
Also I think that AG's impact has been underrated. He is guarding opposing PG's and bothering them with his size, quickness and length. Now Jokic can use his positioning in p'n'r and they have great defense (when healthy). Something similar was Simmons doing for 76ers, their defense dropped significantly when opposing p'n'r is defended with Maxey(Curry)/Embiid instead of Simmons/Embiid.
Anyway, after this season, we can definitely put to rest narrative that Jokic is not very good defender.

AGs impact has been overrated if anything. There is not a single defensive metric that paints him as a good defender. Ive even bothered to look into his opponents shooting percentage where he is average to below average at all distances. When i watch him play i see a lazy defender that often gets lost in team defense, has mental lapses, is late to contest the perimeter, dies on every screen and doesnt bother to recover. Gets blown by smaller guards and gets bullied by bigs. Doesnt offer any rim protection either. I have no idea why do people consider him a good defender when he offers nothing but size to cover bulkier wings.

Jokic is not as good as the metrics paint him to be, but he is good at positioning and anticipation, he is great at rebounding, he is a good post defender and has massively improved as a pnr defender. In the beginning of the season he was actually very capable of defending in space against smaller faster players by using Klay Thompsons technique of running next to them instead of sliding and bothering their shot with his length and size. Recently he has regressed again to being a bit lazy on that end but i can understand it since he has such a huge role on offense.
The most overlooked thing about Jokics defense is his communication on that end. His teammates play more organized D when he is on the court. Its one of the things Draymond Green does really well too.

The only serious flaw he has is his lack of rim protection but i think he will figure it out eventually.

[AleksandarN]

It's supposed to be Gordon but he's been mediocre. Jokic is clearly the best defender on the team. The Nuggets without him are both the worst offensive AND defensive team in the league. Zero identity on offense and give up the hard earned leads faster than you can blink.

Don't think that Nuggets big deference in def. rating with/without Jokic is just because he is very good defender. The fact is that JaMychal Green, Jokic backup has been terrible this season on both ends of the court.
Also I think that AG's impact has been underrated. He is guarding opposing PG's and bothering them with his size, quickness and length. Now Jokic can use his positioning in p'n'r and they have great defense (when healthy). Something similar was Simmons doing for 76ers, their defense dropped significantly when opposing p'n'r is defended with Maxey(Curry)/Embiid instead of Simmons/Embiid.
Anyway, after this season, we can definitely put to rest narrative that Jokic is not very good defender.

AGs impact has been overrated if anything. There is not a single defensive metric that paints him as a good defender. Ive even bothered to look into his opponents shooting percentage where he is average to below average at all distances. When i watch him play i see a lazy defender that often gets lost in team defense, has mental lapses, is late to contest the perimeter, dies on every screen and doesnt bother to recover. Gets blown by smaller guards and gets bullied by bigs. Doesnt offer any rim protection either. I have no idea why do people consider him a good defender when he offers nothing but size to cover bulkier wings.

Jokic is not as good as the metrics paint him to be, but he is good at positioning and anticipation, he is great at rebounding, he is a good post defender and has massively improved as a pnr defender. In the beginning of the season he was actually very capable of defending in space against smaller faster players by using Klay Thompsons technique of running next to them instead of sliding and bothering their shot with his length and size. Recently he has regressed again to being a bit lazy on that end but i can understand it since he has such a huge role on offense.
The most overlooked thing about Jokics defense is his communication on that end. His teammates play more organized D when he is on the court. Its one of the things Draymond Green does really well too.

The only serious flaw he has is his lack of rim protection but i think he will figure it out eventually.

You obviously only watched a few of Nuggets games, AG guards the best player on the opposing team.

[Alatan]

Don't think that Nuggets big deference in def. rating with/without Jokic is just because he is very good defender. The fact is that JaMychal Green, Jokic backup has been terrible this season on both ends of the court.
Also I think that AG's impact has been underrated. He is guarding opposing PG's and bothering them with his size, quickness and length. Now Jokic can use his positioning in p'n'r and they have great defense (when healthy). Something similar was Simmons doing for 76ers, their defense dropped significantly when opposing p'n'r is defended with Maxey(Curry)/Embiid instead of Simmons/Embiid.
Anyway, after this season, we can definitely put to rest narrative that Jokic is not very good defender.

AGs impact has been overrated if anything. There is not a single defensive metric that paints him as a good defender. Ive even bothered to look into his opponents shooting percentage where he is average to below average at all distances. When i watch him play i see a lazy defender that often gets lost in team defense, has mental lapses, is late to contest the perimeter, dies on every screen and doesnt bother to recover. Gets blown by smaller guards and gets bullied by bigs. Doesnt offer any rim protection either. I have no idea why do people consider him a good defender when he offers nothing but size to cover bulkier wings.

Jokic is not as good as the metrics paint him to be, but he is good at positioning and anticipation, he is great at rebounding, he is a good post defender and has massively improved as a pnr defender. In the beginning of the season he was actually very capable of defending in space against smaller faster players by using Klay Thompsons technique of running next to them instead of sliding and bothering their shot with his length and size. Recently he has regressed again to being a bit lazy on that end but i can understand it since he has such a huge role on offense.
The most overlooked thing about Jokics defense is his communication on that end. His teammates play more organized D when he is on the court. Its one of the things Draymond Green does really well too.

The only serious flaw he has is his lack of rim protection but i think he will figure it out eventually.

You obviously only watched a few of Nuggets games, AG guards the best player on the opposing team.

AG gets repeatedly torhched by the best or any player on the opposing team. FTFY

[Drakeem]

Curry is miles ahead.


Jokic has no case, team record matters.

If only the award could go to the most valuable team.

Lets see what Curry can do with this team.

[BoatsNZones]

Curry is miles ahead.


Jokic has no case, team record matters.

If only the award could go to the most valuable team.

Lets see what Curry can do with this team.

Or we can just see what he’s doing with his team that was expected to be the West 5-8 seed as the NBA #1 seed.

A team that has zero business as a top 10 offense, let alone top 3.

And rest assure, that great defense is not buying in 100% like they are without this great offense and the MVP level play he’s had to lead them to what they think may be most of their first championship runs.

Smart fans also understand when Looney gets his uncontested dunks due to Curry’s gravity it is impact. It won’t show up on your stat sheet (other than Curry once again dominating the league in plus minus), but it’s there.

[Dupp]

Curry is miles ahead.


Jokic has no case, team record matters.

If only the award could go to the most valuable team.

Lets see what Curry can do with this team.

If this is your first year watching basketball cool I get your gripe but if it isn't you should understand how MVP works and how the voters vote. A .500 record isn't getting you close.

[AleksandarN]

AGs impact has been overrated if anything. There is not a single defensive metric that paints him as a good defender. Ive even bothered to look into his opponents shooting percentage where he is average to below average at all distances. When i watch him play i see a lazy defender that often gets lost in team defense, has mental lapses, is late to contest the perimeter, dies on every screen and doesnt bother to recover. Gets blown by smaller guards and gets bullied by bigs. Doesnt offer any rim protection either. I have no idea why do people consider him a good defender when he offers nothing but size to cover bulkier wings.

Jokic is not as good as the metrics paint him to be, but he is good at positioning and anticipation, he is great at rebounding, he is a good post defender and has massively improved as a pnr defender. In the beginning of the season he was actually very capable of defending in space against smaller faster players by using Klay Thompsons technique of running next to them instead of sliding and bothering their shot with his length and size. Recently he has regressed again to being a bit lazy on that end but i can understand it since he has such a huge role on offense.
The most overlooked thing about Jokics defense is his communication on that end. His teammates play more organized D when he is on the court. Its one of the things Draymond Green does really well too.

The only serious flaw he has is his lack of rim protection but i think he will figure it out eventually.

You obviously only watched a few of Nuggets games, AG guards the best player on the opposing team.

AG gets repeatedly torhched by the best or any player on the opposing team. FTFY

Ok enlighten me what players "repeatedly torched him" this year?

[Buckeye-NBAFan]

Curry is miles ahead.


Jokic has no case, team record matters.

If only the award could go to the most valuable team.

Lets see what Curry can do with this team.

If this is your first year watching basketball cool I get your gripe but if it isn't you should understand how MVP works and how the voters vote. A .500 record isn't getting you close.

Meh, Nuggets are 14-10 with Jokic, and have the 4th easiest schedule remaining.

[HoopsterJones]

Demar Derozan is back with another impressive performances, scores 19 out of his 38 points in the 4th quarter to lift the Bulls to victory. He won’t win MVP, but he certainly has played like a MVP all season.

[feyki]

Jokic is the best player by TPA. The best player in the best conference.

Read on Twitter

/photo/1

Read on Twitter

/photo/1

There are teammates of Curry/Giannis/KD in the top 40, Draymond, Pat Connaughton, Harden respectively. NONE for Jokic.

Read on Twitter

/photo/1

As the impacts, Jokic at number one and 3 players behind him and then Butler. And rest are all stars.

But Nuggets are 17th best defence and Nets were 5th best defence with Jokic playing much better defensive players alongside him than KD. Switch KD and Jokic defensive TPA's, then I agree with that list.

The defense falls apart when Jokic hits the bench. The nuggets with Jokic are a better defensive team than the Nets with KD when both players are on the floor. The reason the nets are a better defensive team is because of the 15 min Jokic is on the bench

Spoiler:

Jokic is the best player by TPA. The best player in the best conference.

Read on Twitter

/photo/1

Read on Twitter

/photo/1

There are teammates of Curry/Giannis/KD in the top 40, Draymond, Pat Connaughton, Harden respectively. NONE for Jokic.

Read on Twitter

/photo/1

As the impacts, Jokic at number one and 3 players behind him and then Butler. And rest are all stars.

But Nuggets are 17th best defence and Nets were 5th best defence with Jokic playing much better defensive players alongside him than KD. Switch KD and Jokic defensive TPA's, then I agree with that list.

Im really curious to hear who are those much better defensive players? Morris? Barton? 35 year old Green? Aaron Gordon for all his hype is painfully average on defense both in terms of stats and the eye test.

Spoiler:

As the impacts, Jokic at number one and 3 players behind him and then Butler. And rest are all stars.

But Nuggets are 17th best defence and Nets were 5th best defence with Jokic playing much better defensive players alongside him than KD. Switch KD and Jokic defensive TPA's, then I agree with that list.

Im really curious to hear who are those much better defensive players? Morris? Barton? 35 year old Green? Aaron Gordon for all his hype is painfully average on defense both in terms of stats and the eye test.

It's supposed to be Gordon but he's been mediocre. Jokic is clearly the best defender on the team. The Nuggets without him are both the worst offensive AND defensive team in the league. Zero identity on offense and give up the hard earned leads faster than you can blink.

Every line-up better than Harden,Mills,Harris, defensively.

[BoatsNZones]

Tell me more about how Jokic only plays with the starters and has a terrible bench, please.

[feyki]

This how the team poor without X nonsenses bothering me. Then why in the middle of the prime 26 years old MVP playing 5 minutes and 12 possesions(24 with off+def) less per game than 33 years old who had achilles injury 1 year ago player?

[BelgradeNugget]

This how the team poor without X nonsenses bothering me. Then why in the middle of the prime 26 years old MVP playing 5 minutes and 12 possesions(24 with off+def) less per game than 33 years old who had achilles injury 1 year ago player?

Simple answer. Nikola Jokic played in 10 Nuggets loses. In 9 of those games he averaged 35,2 mins. In one loss against Utah he played 15 mins. due to injury and had 24/6/6.
In Nuggets wins with him - 14, they had multiple blowouts were he played less mins. Against:
ATL - 26 mins. DEN lead was 25 pts
WAS - 31 mins. DEN lead was 33 pts
NY - 27 mins. DEN lead was 30 pts
POR - 28 mins. DEN lead was 24 pts
DAL - 25 mins. DEN lead was 31 pts - I guess you remember that game
This low minutes actually lowered his box-score stats because players who want to statpadd usually do it in garbage-time. Jok is not one of them.

[feyki]

This how the team poor without X nonsenses bothering me. Then why in the middle of the prime 26 years old MVP playing 5 minutes and 12 possesions(24 with off+def) less per game than 33 years old who had achilles injury 1 year ago player?

Simple answer. Nikola Jokic played in 10 Nuggets loses. In 9 of those games he averaged 35,2 mins. In one loss against Utah he played 15 mins. due to injury and had 24/6/6.
In Nuggets wins with him - 14, they had multiple blowouts were he played less mins. Against:
ATL - 26 mins. DEN lead was 25 pts
WAS - 31 mins. DEN lead was 33 pts
NY - 27 mins. DEN lead was 30 pts
POR - 28 mins. DEN lead was 24 pts
DAL - 25 mins. DEN lead was 31 pts - I guess you remember that game
This low minutes actually lowered his box-score stats because players who want to statpadd usually do it in garbage-time. Jok is not one of them.

Durant played 36+ minutes in 19 of 27 games, Jokic's 5 of 24. Durant's 38+ games almost half of his games, Jokic none of 24. Durant's 40+ minutes games 5.

It's tough to thinking like you, from my view.