NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2022-23 (pt 2)

[Maverick41]

As much as I want to say Luka is the MVP as a Mavs fan, I cannot because while he has the stats, he does not have the record. I got Giannis with Jokic being neck and neck with him. Imo we've taken Giannis's greatness for granted. He's carried the Bucks without his 2nd best scorer for most of the season, tied with Luka for the highest usage in the NBA, AND still playing elite defense. All that while leading his team to the 2nd seed in the east. He checks every category needed for an MVP.

Did he?

https://www.nba.com/team/1610612749/bucks/

I'm confused what you're eluding to here Bob?

[Mick Dundee]

Unbelievable Performance by Luka.

But Favorite for MVP?

Nah.

One swallow doesn't make a summer.

I'd still playce Joker, Tatum, Embiid an Giannis in front of him.

I would also place Durant somwhere in there. Probably in 6th.

He has, however, the disadvantage of being a human, while the guys in front of him are alien lifeforms of the 21st century.

40, 50 and 60 Point Triple Doubles along with Steals and Blocks galore and all kinds of improvised crazyness, like no-look passes
through the legs seconds-long flights through the air for dunks and ****.

Competing with that is a bit unfair. But it is what it is.

As the germans say .. "Siss Oasch, owa wos wüsst mochn"

[Bob8]

As much as I want to say Luka is the MVP as a Mavs fan, I cannot because while he has the stats, he does not have the record. I got Giannis with Jokic being neck and neck with him. Imo we've taken Giannis's greatness for granted. He's carried the Bucks without his 2nd best scorer for most of the season, tied with Luka for the highest usage in the NBA, AND still playing elite defense. All that while leading his team to the 2nd seed in the east. He checks every category needed for an MVP.

Did he?

https://www.nba.com/team/1610612749/bucks/

I'm confused what you're eluding to here Bob?

Click stats, then on/off court and summary. Hint, look what you will get for Giannis and Jrue.

Then you go to, https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/antetgi01.html, and look at play by play +/- on court; off court

Then you can look all advanced stats, BPM, VORP, WS, RPM, Raptor... and you will see something in common.

[eyeatoma]

You have many MVPs, who were very average or even bad defenders and no MVP, who was average/bad offensive player and great defender. That should tell you, where priorities lies.

Please google the name William "Bill" Russell. A 5 time MVP who was so valuable they literally named the Finals Most Valuable Player award after him.

You don't value defense. That doesn't mean it doesn't have value. Just means you are ignorant about its worth.

Fact that you have to go 60 years back tells me everything.

What about more recent ones, Curry, Harden, Westbrook, Rose, Nash or even Dirk from Dallas?

LeBron was a great defender when he won his MVPS.

Just because the best most impactful players in those years are one way players doesn't mean you don't reward defense. If anything it's an indictment on the state of the game showing that most stars don't take defense seriously or don't have the capacity to be the hub on offense and the defensive wall.

Embiid and Giannis are capable of that. Even Tatum and KD to some extent. That should be recognized, and not dismissed.

Also there are a few guys like, Michael Jordan and Hakeem, you might know them. Both stellar defenders.

You're not going to win this argument bud. You just sound like you dont' know what you're talking about.

[Bob8]

Please google the name William "Bill" Russell. A 5 time MVP who was so valuable they literally named the Finals Most Valuable Player award after him.

You don't value defense. That doesn't mean it doesn't have value. Just means you are ignorant about its worth.

Fact that you have to go 60 years back tells me everything.

What about more recent ones, Curry, Harden, Westbrook, Rose, Nash or even Dirk from Dallas?

LeBron was a great defender when he won his MVPS.

Just because the best most impactful players in those years are one way players doesn't mean you don't reward defense. If anything it's an indictment on the state of the game showing that most stars don't take defense seriously or don't have the capacity to be the hub on offense and the defensive wall.

Embiid and Giannis are capable of that. Even Tatum and KD to some extent. That should be recognized, and not dismissed.

Also there are a few guys like, Michael Jordan and Hakeem, you might know them. Both stellar defenders.

You're not going to win this argument bud. You just sound like you dont' know what you're talking about.

And it looks like you don't know how to read. I said when great defender and average/bad offensive player has won the reward? All those you have mentioned were great offensive players.

I have written down many bad defenders, who have got the reward. It looks being a good defender isn't exactly a must. On the other hand, no great defender/ bad offensive player in recent memory didn't win MVP or was even close to win it.

[maxwellcu]

Nothing is more fresh or exciting than watching 76ers fan(s) shitpost about how Embiid the God is the GOAT of all GOATS blah blah blah blah.

Seriously though, can we please give them their own thread?

I mean really. This has been going on for years. It's disruptive to the rest of the discussion here and it's boring.

[Maverick41]

Did he?

https://www.nba.com/team/1610612749/bucks/

I'm confused what you're eluding to here Bob?

Click stats, then on/off court and summary. Hint, look what you will get for Giannis and Jrue.

Then you go to, https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/antetgi01.html, and look at play by play +/- on court; off court

Then you can look all advanced stats, BPM, VORP, WS, RPM, Raptor... and you will see something in common.

Certainly interesting stats. I'm not gonna come here and discount your opinion since you have provided some valid points at least.

But for me, if I had a vote today, I vote Giannis. It can go a lot of ways though since there are so many great MVP-like performers this season.

[Bob8]

I'm confused what you're eluding to here Bob?

Click stats, then on/off court and summary. Hint, look what you will get for Giannis and Jrue.

Then you go to, https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/antetgi01.html, and look at play by play +/- on court; off court

Then you can look all advanced stats, BPM, VORP, WS, RPM, Raptor... and you will see something in common.

Certainly interesting stats. I'm not gonna come here and discount your opinion since you have provided some valid points at least.

But for me, if I had a vote today, I vote Giannis. It can go a lot of ways though since there are so many great MVP-like performers this season.

We can for sure say that every single advanced stats hate Giannis. I kinda doubt they're all completely wrong. Add his efficiency, which is the worst since 2015/16 season and things become really funny.

[eyeatoma]

Fact that you have to go 60 years back tells me everything.

What about more recent ones, Curry, Harden, Westbrook, Rose, Nash or even Dirk from Dallas?

LeBron was a great defender when he won his MVPS.

Just because the best most impactful players in those years are one way players doesn't mean you don't reward defense. If anything it's an indictment on the state of the game showing that most stars don't take defense seriously or don't have the capacity to be the hub on offense and the defensive wall.

Embiid and Giannis are capable of that. Even Tatum and KD to some extent. That should be recognized, and not dismissed.

Also there are a few guys like, Michael Jordan and Hakeem, you might know them. Both stellar defenders.

You're not going to win this argument bud. You just sound like you dont' know what you're talking about.

And it looks like you don't know how to read. I said when great defender and average/bad offensive player has won the reward? All those you have mentioned were great offensive players.

I have written down many bad defenders, who have got the reward. It looks being a good defender isn't exactly a must. On the other hand, no great defender/ bad offensive player in recent memory didn't win MVP or was even close to win it.

Bill Russell was the star in the Celtics. His defense was so good that it made him the MVP. He was that good.

If Gobert got chips and was even better he could have won it or been in the running.

Sent from my SM-S908E using Tapatalk

[Jstock12]

1. Luka
2. Jokic
3. Giannis
4. Tatum
5. Durant

6. Morant
7. Embiid
8. Zion
9. Gilgeous-Alexander
10. Mitchell

MORANT?!?!?!??!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?

54% TS...

[Bob8]

LeBron was a great defender when he won his MVPS.

Just because the best most impactful players in those years are one way players doesn't mean you don't reward defense. If anything it's an indictment on the state of the game showing that most stars don't take defense seriously or don't have the capacity to be the hub on offense and the defensive wall.

Embiid and Giannis are capable of that. Even Tatum and KD to some extent. That should be recognized, and not dismissed.

Also there are a few guys like, Michael Jordan and Hakeem, you might know them. Both stellar defenders.

You're not going to win this argument bud. You just sound like you dont' know what you're talking about.

And it looks like you don't know how to read. I said when great defender and average/bad offensive player has won the reward? All those you have mentioned were great offensive players.

I have written down many bad defenders, who have got the reward. It looks being a good defender isn't exactly a must. On the other hand, no great defender/ bad offensive player in recent memory didn't win MVP or was even close to win it.

Bill Russell was the star in the Celtics. His defense was so good that it made him the MVP. He was that good.

If Gobert got chips and was even better he could have won it or been in the running.

Sent from my SM-S908E using Tapatalk

Thank you, I have already got Russell for example. 1 in 60 years?

[eyeatoma]

And it looks like you don't know how to read. I said when great defender and average/bad offensive player has won the reward? All those you have mentioned were great offensive players.

I have written down many bad defenders, who have got the reward. It looks being a good defender isn't exactly a must. On the other hand, no great defender/ bad offensive player in recent memory didn't win MVP or was even close to win it.

Bill Russell was the star in the Celtics. His defense was so good that it made him the MVP. He was that good.

If Gobert got chips and was even better he could have won it or been in the running.

Sent from my SM-S908E using Tapatalk

Thank you, I have already got Russell for example. 1 in 60 years?

The point is, you're saying Luka, Jokic are top, and Embiid shouldn't even be considered. Same with Giannis. That's hilarious. Both are offensive stars who are putting up generational stats, and are putting up DPOY numbers.

[Jstock12]

Bill Russell was the star in the Celtics. His defense was so good that it made him the MVP. He was that good.

If Gobert got chips and was even better he could have won it or been in the running.

Sent from my SM-S908E using Tapatalk

Thank you, I have already got Russell for example. 1 in 60 years?

The point is, you're saying Luka, Jokic are top, and Embiid shouldn't even be considered. Same with Giannis. That's hilarious. Both are offensive stars who are putting up generational stats, and are putting up DPOY numbers.

Well to be fair, there are a number of defensive metrics Jokic is ahead of Embiid.

[maxwellcu]

Thank you, I have already got Russell for example. 1 in 60 years?

The point is, you're saying Luka, Jokic are top, and Embiid shouldn't even be considered. Same with Giannis. That's hilarious. Both are offensive stars who are putting up generational stats, and are putting up DPOY numbers.

Well to be fair, there are a number of defensive metrics Jokic is ahead of Embiid.

The thing with these people that you haven't figured out yet is that the #s matter if and only if their guy is ahead in them.

[Bob8]

Bill Russell was the star in the Celtics. His defense was so good that it made him the MVP. He was that good.

If Gobert got chips and was even better he could have won it or been in the running.

Sent from my SM-S908E using Tapatalk

Thank you, I have already got Russell for example. 1 in 60 years?

The point is, you're saying Luka, Jokic are top, and Embiid shouldn't even be considered. Same with Giannis. That's hilarious. Both are offensive stars who are putting up generational stats, and are putting up DPOY numbers.

I have Embiid in front of Giannis. Advanced stats say that Giannis is not putting generational stats anywhere and that's if I'm being politically correct.

[Archx]

The point is, you're saying Luka, Jokic are top, and Embiid shouldn't even be considered. Same with Giannis. That's hilarious. Both are offensive stars who are putting up generational stats, and are putting up DPOY numbers.

Well to be fair, there are a number of defensive metrics Jokic is ahead of Embiid.

What are you doing? You trying to cause him an aneurysm?

[eyeatoma]

Thank you, I have already got Russell for example. 1 in 60 years?

The point is, you're saying Luka, Jokic are top, and Embiid shouldn't even be considered. Same with Giannis. That's hilarious. Both are offensive stars who are putting up generational stats, and are putting up DPOY numbers.

Well to be fair, there are a number of defensive metrics Jokic is ahead of Embiid.

Not true, there is only one and it overvalues rebounding and assists from the center position which is ridiculous.

Check my post on the dpoy thread where i go over the stats.

Sent from my SM-S908E using Tapatalk

[Jstock12]

The point is, you're saying Luka, Jokic are top, and Embiid shouldn't even be considered. Same with Giannis. That's hilarious. Both are offensive stars who are putting up generational stats, and are putting up DPOY numbers.

Well to be fair, there are a number of defensive metrics Jokic is ahead of Embiid.

Not true, there is only one and it overvalues rebounding and assists from the center position which is ridiculous.

Check my post on the dpoy thread where i go over the stats.

Sent from my SM-S908E using Tapatalk

I'm not saying that Jokic is better defensively overall, just saying in some aspects he might be better than Embiid. Obviously not on switches against smaller guards, or shot-blocking. Those are Embiid's strengths. Jokic seems to me like a really good interior defender, who has very quick hands and causes deflections and closed passing lanes. I think he also reads the game at a higher level.

[ty 4191]

Well to be fair, there are a number of defensive metrics Jokic is ahead of Embiid.

Not true, there is only one and it overvalues rebounding and assists from the center position which is ridiculous.

Check my post on the dpoy thread where i go over the stats.

Sent from my SM-S908E using Tapatalk

I'm not saying that Jokic is better defensively overall, just saying in some aspects he might be better than Embiid. Obviously not on switches against smaller guards, or shot-blocking. Those are Embiid's strengths. Jokic seems to me like a really good interior defender, who has very quick hands and causes deflections and closed passing lanes. I think he also reads the game at a higher level.

And, yes, the numbers certainly confirm this. Check out deflections per game, total deflections. Or, even something as basic as steals per game, career.

[eyeatoma]

Well to be fair, there are a number of defensive metrics Jokic is ahead of Embiid.

Not true, there is only one and it overvalues rebounding and assists from the center position which is ridiculous.

Check my post on the dpoy thread where i go over the stats.

Sent from my SM-S908E using Tapatalk

I'm not saying that Jokic is better defensively overall, just saying in some aspects he might be better than Embiid. Obviously not on switches against smaller guards, or shot-blocking. Those are Embiid's strengths. Jokic seems to me like a really good interior defender, who has very quick hands and causes deflections and closed passing lanes. I think he also reads the game at a higher level.

Yes very quick hands, high IQ, excellent positioning. A useful defender. But he's not anchoring a top 2 defense like Embiid.

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