NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (continued)

[ChartFiction]

1. Embiid
2. SGA
3. Jokic
4. Giannis

76ers second best record out of the four after the Bucks, but higher SRS and 2nd highest SRS in the league after Celtics. Embiid EPM 2nd after SGA but not much gap to 1st.

Slow start but Giannis moving up quickly. Bucks best record out of the 4. Giannis stats catching up. 4th in EPM after the other three. Best TS% out of the four.

These four are all within 3-4 games of each other from being first.

[Mavrelous]

Dončić still hasn’t been allowed to beat opponents by himself. “Luka has to lead the league in double-teams,” Jason Kidd said afterwards. “He’s being doubled for the majority of games.” According to Second Spectrum data acquired by The Athletic, Kidd’s right: Dončić has been blitzed in pick-and-roll situations — i.e., both defenders doubling him — 140 times already this year. That’s a staggering amount, and more than twice as many times as Cade Cunningham, the player who comes in second (62).

https://theathletic.com/5133163/2023/12/13/luka-doncic-mavericks-dante-exum-lakers-teammates/?utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=nbatw&source=nbatw

I'm not sure if SecondSpectum include in this number different coverages, such as OKC and Grizzlies (partly), where he was full court pressured and doubled when he crossed halfcourt before the screen.

[GrandTheftRondo]

:D

Giannis has never played like he is right now his free throw shooting looks so smooth the Celtics only hope is he goes back to shooting 50% from the line

His free throws close to career lows. Think the bigger factor is his finishing being back to normal and no more knee issues. Last year, he wasn’t the same finisher at all. Dude is literally unstoppable near the rim. If he stopped shooting threes, he’d be even more

Don’t look at season average he started in the 50% I am talking how he’s playing now these last 7 gms have been special especially from the line they all look like they are going in no more air balls and if he’s even at 70% no one is beating them.

That’s not how it works.

Giannis has periods where he hits all his FTs. I remember him barely missing in a few finals games.

He’s got a garbage shooting technique and that will always prevent him from being an elite FT shooter.

Besides there are two sides to the ball and the Bucks defence at the moment leaves plenty to be desired.

[JayMKE]

Pretty much the only reason the Bucks aren't legit terrible has been Giannis going superman

[bigboi]

Pretty much the only reason the Bucks aren't legit terrible has been Giannis going superman

Pretty much which is why the dude is MVP. The team would pretty much be Dame Blazers without Giannis. I’ve been saying that dude might average 35+ this season since the supporting cast is so weak. And folks had the nerve to say bucks have a better cast than Nugs. Absurdd

[Cubbies2120]

Pretty much the only reason the Bucks aren't legit terrible has been Giannis going superman

Pretty much which is why the dude is MVP. The team would pretty much be Dame Blazers without Giannis. I’ve been saying that dude might average 35+ this season since the supporting cast is so weak. And folks had the nerve to say bucks have a better cast than Nugs. Absurdd

I love how confidently you speak while spouting nonsense. The Nuggets won the title last year in spite of the supporting cast, not because of it. Jokic is the greatest offensive hub in NBA history and one of only 2-3 guys to win a title without an all-star teammate. Instead of hating on the man, you should be in awe for one of the greatest, if not the greatest, carry jobs in NBA history.

Giannis: .237 WS/48, 5.9 OBPM, 1.7 DBPM, 1.9 VORP, 5.5 CraftedPM, 2.83 WARP
Jokic: .289 WS/48, 10.3 OBPM, 3.8 DBPM, 3.3 VORP, 7.6 CraftedPM, 3.75 WARP

Damian Lillard: .159 WS/48, 3.6 OBPM, 0.8 VORP, 3 CraftedPM, 1.86 WARP
Jamal Murray: .122 WS/48, 3.9 OBPM, -1.2 DBPM, 0.4 VORP, 1.6 CraftedPM, 0.58 WARP

Brook Lopez: .129 WS/48, 2.0 BPM, 0.7 VORP, 2.6 CraftedPM, 1.6 WARP
Michael Porter Jr: .111 WS/48, 1.5 OBPM, -1.5 DBPM, 0.4 VORP, 1.6 CraftedPM, 1.42 WARP

[bigboi]

Pretty much the only reason the Bucks aren't legit terrible has been Giannis going superman

Pretty much which is why the dude is MVP. The team would pretty much be Dame Blazers without Giannis. I’ve been saying that dude might average 35+ this season since the supporting cast is so weak. And folks had the nerve to say bucks have a better cast than Nugs. Absurdd

I love how confidently you speak while spouting nonsense. The Nuggets won the title last year in spite of the supporting cast, not because of it. Jokic is the greatest offensive hub in NBA history and one of only 2-3 guys to win a title without an all-star teammate. Instead of hating on the man, you should be in awe for one of the greatest, if not the greatest, carry jobs in NBA history.

Giannis: .237 WS/48, 5.9 OBPM, 1.7 DBPM, 1.9 VORP, 5.5 CraftedPM, 2.83 WARP
Jokic: .289 WS/48, 10.3 OBPM, 3.8 DBPM, 3.3 VORP, 7.6 CraftedPM, 3.75 WARP

Damian Lillard: .159 WS/48, 3.6 OBPM, 0.8 VORP, 3 CraftedPM, 1.86 WARP
Jamal Murray: .122 WS/48, 3.9 OBPM, -1.2 DBPM, 0.4 VORP, 1.6 CraftedPM, 0.58 WARP

Brook Lopez: .129 WS/48, 2.0 BPM, 0.7 VORP, 2.6 CraftedPM, 1.6 WARP
Michael Porter Jr: .111 WS/48, 1.5 OBPM, -1.5 DBPM, 0.4 VORP, 1.6 CraftedPM, 1.42 WARP

Buddy. Idgaf about NONE of these nonsense stats that you’re posting. “CraftedPM”, at this point, you’re making up stats. That’s not even a widely used stat LMAOOOO. If I wanted to, I can easily pull up raw AND advanced stats that shut down your whole argument. That’s how easy it is to manipulate with bs stats

It’s simple as this:

MPJ, Murray, Gordon, KCP >Dame, Middleton, Lopez, and Beasley.

Middleton and Lopez are pretty much 4th to 5th maybe even 6th options on the Nuggets. Not too mention neither have been great defensively either.

You Jokic Stan’s are in denial. Giannis is the best player in basketball bar none and will be the mvp unless Embiid takes it. And no, Jokic isn’t the greatest anything. Greatest offensive unit with 1 ring, yea alright. Murray played all star level in the playoffs so that’s irrelevant also, Murray literally has nearly the same stats as Kobe in 99-00. Miss me with the bs. I can literally cherry pick for any player in history

[Cubbies2120]

Pretty much which is why the dude is MVP. The team would pretty much be Dame Blazers without Giannis. I’ve been saying that dude might average 35+ this season since the supporting cast is so weak. And folks had the nerve to say bucks have a better cast than Nugs. Absurdd

I love how confidently you speak while spouting nonsense. The Nuggets won the title last year in spite of the supporting cast, not because of it. Jokic is the greatest offensive hub in NBA history and one of only 2-3 guys to win a title without an all-star teammate. Instead of hating on the man, you should be in awe for one of the greatest, if not the greatest, carry jobs in NBA history.

Giannis: .237 WS/48, 5.9 OBPM, 1.7 DBPM, 1.9 VORP, 5.5 CraftedPM, 2.83 WARP
Jokic: .289 WS/48, 10.3 OBPM, 3.8 DBPM, 3.3 VORP, 7.6 CraftedPM, 3.75 WARP

Damian Lillard: .159 WS/48, 3.6 OBPM, 0.8 VORP, 3 CraftedPM, 1.86 WARP
Jamal Murray: .122 WS/48, 3.9 OBPM, -1.2 DBPM, 0.4 VORP, 1.6 CraftedPM, 0.58 WARP

Brook Lopez: .129 WS/48, 2.0 BPM, 0.7 VORP, 2.6 CraftedPM, 1.6 WARP
Michael Porter Jr: .111 WS/48, 1.5 OBPM, -1.5 DBPM, 0.4 VORP, 1.6 CraftedPM, 1.42 WARP

Buddy. Idgaf about NONE of these nonsense stats that you’re posting. “CraftedPM”, at this point, you’re making up stats. That’s not even a widely used stat LMAOOOO. If I wanted to, I can easily pull up raw AND advanced stats that shut down your whole argument. That’s how easy it is to manipulate with bs stats

It’s simple as this:

MPJ, Murray, Gordon, KCP >Dame, Middleton, Lopez, and Beasley.

Middleton and Lopez are pretty much 4th to 5th maybe even 6th options on the Nuggets. Not too mention neither have been great defensively either.

You Jokic Stan’s are in denial. Giannis is the best player in basketball bar none and will be the mvp unless Embiid takes it. And no, Jokic isn’t the greatest anything. Greatest offensive unit with 1 ring, yea alright. Murray played all star level in the playoffs so that’s irrelevant also, Murray literally has nearly the same stats as Kobe in 99-00. Miss me with the bs. I can literally cherry pick for any player in history

Pull up some, I want to see them lmao.

So you're just going to go with the "eye test". Cool...so in that case I know to ignore your opinion since it's not backed by any statistical analysis, but rather "feelings". How old are you? Genuine question since you're choosing to disregard the empirical evidence in front of you.

Crafted NBA: https://craftednba.com/

Oh and:

Aaron Gordon: .088 WS/48, -0.7 BPM, 0.2 VORP
Khris Middleton: .095 WS/48, 0.4 BPM, 0.3 VORP

[Dirk]

I love how confidently you speak while spouting nonsense. The Nuggets won the title last year in spite of the supporting cast, not because of it. Jokic is the greatest offensive hub in NBA history and one of only 2-3 guys to win a title without an all-star teammate. Instead of hating on the man, you should be in awe for one of the greatest, if not the greatest, carry jobs in NBA history.

Giannis: .237 WS/48, 5.9 OBPM, 1.7 DBPM, 1.9 VORP, 5.5 CraftedPM, 2.83 WARP
Jokic: .289 WS/48, 10.3 OBPM, 3.8 DBPM, 3.3 VORP, 7.6 CraftedPM, 3.75 WARP

Damian Lillard: .159 WS/48, 3.6 OBPM, 0.8 VORP, 3 CraftedPM, 1.86 WARP
Jamal Murray: .122 WS/48, 3.9 OBPM, -1.2 DBPM, 0.4 VORP, 1.6 CraftedPM, 0.58 WARP

Brook Lopez: .129 WS/48, 2.0 BPM, 0.7 VORP, 2.6 CraftedPM, 1.6 WARP
Michael Porter Jr: .111 WS/48, 1.5 OBPM, -1.5 DBPM, 0.4 VORP, 1.6 CraftedPM, 1.42 WARP

Buddy. Idgaf about NONE of these nonsense stats that you’re posting. “CraftedPM”, at this point, you’re making up stats. That’s not even a widely used stat LMAOOOO. If I wanted to, I can easily pull up raw AND advanced stats that shut down your whole argument. That’s how easy it is to manipulate with bs stats

It’s simple as this:

MPJ, Murray, Gordon, KCP >Dame, Middleton, Lopez, and Beasley.

Middleton and Lopez are pretty much 4th to 5th maybe even 6th options on the Nuggets. Not too mention neither have been great defensively either.

You Jokic Stan’s are in denial. Giannis is the best player in basketball bar none and will be the mvp unless Embiid takes it. And no, Jokic isn’t the greatest anything. Greatest offensive unit with 1 ring, yea alright. Murray played all star level in the playoffs so that’s irrelevant also, Murray literally has nearly the same stats as Kobe in 99-00. Miss me with the bs. I can literally cherry pick for any player in history

Pull up some, I want to see them lmao.

So you're just going to go with the "eye test". Cool...so in that case I know to ignore your opinion since it's not backed by any statistical analysis, but rather "feelings". How old are you? Genuine question since you're choosing to disregard the empirical evidence in front of you.

Crafted NBA: https://craftednba.com/

Oh and:

Aaron Gordon: .088 WS/48, -0.7 BPM, 0.2 VORP
Khris Middleton: .095 WS/48, 0.4 BPM, 0.3 VORP

Check

https://bigboieyetest.com

Jokic ranks outside top 5.

[Cubbies2120]

Buddy. Idgaf about NONE of these nonsense stats that you’re posting. “CraftedPM”, at this point, you’re making up stats. That’s not even a widely used stat LMAOOOO. If I wanted to, I can easily pull up raw AND advanced stats that shut down your whole argument. That’s how easy it is to manipulate with bs stats

It’s simple as this:

MPJ, Murray, Gordon, KCP >Dame, Middleton, Lopez, and Beasley.

Middleton and Lopez are pretty much 4th to 5th maybe even 6th options on the Nuggets. Not too mention neither have been great defensively either.

You Jokic Stan’s are in denial. Giannis is the best player in basketball bar none and will be the mvp unless Embiid takes it. And no, Jokic isn’t the greatest anything. Greatest offensive unit with 1 ring, yea alright. Murray played all star level in the playoffs so that’s irrelevant also, Murray literally has nearly the same stats as Kobe in 99-00. Miss me with the bs. I can literally cherry pick for any player in history

Pull up some, I want to see them lmao.

So you're just going to go with the "eye test". Cool...so in that case I know to ignore your opinion since it's not backed by any statistical analysis, but rather "feelings". How old are you? Genuine question since you're choosing to disregard the empirical evidence in front of you.

Crafted NBA: https://craftednba.com/

Oh and:

Aaron Gordon: .088 WS/48, -0.7 BPM, 0.2 VORP
Khris Middleton: .095 WS/48, 0.4 BPM, 0.3 VORP

Check

https://bigboieyetest.com

Jokic ranks outside top 5.

That put a smile on my face. +1 to you, good sir.

[Wolfgang630]

Oh lord lol

[AleksandarN]

This thread is just stan wars. No objective analysis.

Coming from you I am surprised you even know the word “ analysis “

[CobraCommander]

And how about the Stat padding accusations?

Embiid could have easily gotten 60. He has sat 1/3 of games this season because he has been so dominant.

Meanwhile..

Read on Twitter

?t=E8F3xUsr3-E4bP1Az-RA-w&s=19

I like Giannis but since that speech last year when they lost in the playoffs I'm not so sure. Also that weird incident with the ladder with the poor arena worker and Harrell... Dude can be pretty aggressive.

Sent from my SM-S918B using Tapatalk

Dude had 64 and the team record for a team that included one of the goat candidates in KAJ-

Giannis gives away 20k sneakers to random fans and all he asking for is memorabilia that he made valuable and you hating on that?

This is low bro - be better lol

Don’t let your love of Embiid blind you to the fact that Giannis can’t have loser energy when dude has already climbed Mount Olympus and looked down on everyone… including Embiid- name the award Giannis doesn’t have? How can a man with every nba award be a loser ?

Stop bro

His losing speech was cringe. That ladder **** was not a good look.

This was hilarious, I'd be embarrassed if I was him.

I think he's a great player and he's likeable but there have been a few things recently that have been off putting.

Today's incident definitely reeked of pettiness and loser energy. Running after someone into the tunnel? What are you in elementary school?

Sent from my SM-S918B using Tapatalk

More loser energy than this ?


lol - j/k

[Wolfgang630]

There’s nothing better than Jokic, Embiid and Giannis fans coming together to discuss mvp.

[AleksandarN]

There’s nothing better than Jokic, Embiid and Giannis fans coming together to discuss mvp.

[MrBigShot]

Jokic getting ejected twice now really hurt his #s, but make no mistake: there is no better player on the planet.

Facts. Everybody knows this. Guy bring his lunch pail to work and gets the job done night in, night out. No glitz, no glamour and certainly no “pity me” interviews with friends in the media throwing shade at the guys nipping at his heels.

You know what else hurts him?

Deandre Jordan gets activated and they beat the Clippers and now the Bulls. Both on the road.

Imagine if the nuggets figure this out, they might even win a championship

[Wolfgang630]

There’s nothing better than Jokic, Embiid and Giannis fans coming together to discuss mvp.

One is eyeatoma, one is bigboi and one could be Cubbies lol

[bigboi]

I love how confidently you speak while spouting nonsense. The Nuggets won the title last year in spite of the supporting cast, not because of it. Jokic is the greatest offensive hub in NBA history and one of only 2-3 guys to win a title without an all-star teammate. Instead of hating on the man, you should be in awe for one of the greatest, if not the greatest, carry jobs in NBA history.

Giannis: .237 WS/48, 5.9 OBPM, 1.7 DBPM, 1.9 VORP, 5.5 CraftedPM, 2.83 WARP
Jokic: .289 WS/48, 10.3 OBPM, 3.8 DBPM, 3.3 VORP, 7.6 CraftedPM, 3.75 WARP

Damian Lillard: .159 WS/48, 3.6 OBPM, 0.8 VORP, 3 CraftedPM, 1.86 WARP
Jamal Murray: .122 WS/48, 3.9 OBPM, -1.2 DBPM, 0.4 VORP, 1.6 CraftedPM, 0.58 WARP

Brook Lopez: .129 WS/48, 2.0 BPM, 0.7 VORP, 2.6 CraftedPM, 1.6 WARP
Michael Porter Jr: .111 WS/48, 1.5 OBPM, -1.5 DBPM, 0.4 VORP, 1.6 CraftedPM, 1.42 WARP

Buddy. Idgaf about NONE of these nonsense stats that you’re posting. “CraftedPM”, at this point, you’re making up stats. That’s not even a widely used stat LMAOOOO. If I wanted to, I can easily pull up raw AND advanced stats that shut down your whole argument. That’s how easy it is to manipulate with bs stats

It’s simple as this:

MPJ, Murray, Gordon, KCP >Dame, Middleton, Lopez, and Beasley.

Middleton and Lopez are pretty much 4th to 5th maybe even 6th options on the Nuggets. Not too mention neither have been great defensively either.

You Jokic Stan’s are in denial. Giannis is the best player in basketball bar none and will be the mvp unless Embiid takes it. And no, Jokic isn’t the greatest anything. Greatest offensive unit with 1 ring, yea alright. Murray played all star level in the playoffs so that’s irrelevant also, Murray literally has nearly the same stats as Kobe in 99-00. Miss me with the bs. I can literally cherry pick for any player in history

Pull up some, I want to see them lmao.

So you're just going to go with the "eye test". Cool...so in that case I know to ignore your opinion since it's not backed by any statistical analysis, but rather "feelings". How old are you? Genuine question since you're choosing to disregard the empirical evidence in front of you.

Crafted NBA: https://craftednba.com/

Oh and:

Aaron Gordon: .088 WS/48, -0.7 BPM, 0.2 VORP
Khris Middleton: .095 WS/48, 0.4 BPM, 0.3 VORP

I’m not going by eye test. I’m going by the fact that I simply don’t value those stats that you posted. Again, you’re posting useless stats. Middleton is an injury risk who can’t even play full games consistently so no, he would not be viewed as a scoring option over Gordon. Middleton isn’t even the third scoring option on the Bucks. Again, you clearly don’t watch games and like to use useless stats to cover your lack of knowledge. This is something that’s easy to look up and show why your stats are skewed in the first place.

You have no statistical analysis, you have BS. Your argument was Jokic being the “best offensive hub” ever and “never playing with an all star”. I gave you stats that show Murray and Kobe had similar stats so your argument was irrelevant. Again, stop bringing up bs stats without providing context. Anyone can do that.

[bigboi]

This thread is just stan wars. No objective analysis.

Coming from you I am surprised you even know the word “ analysis “

Clueless Jokic stan being clueless as per usual

[Cubbies2120]

Buddy. Idgaf about NONE of these nonsense stats that you’re posting. “CraftedPM”, at this point, you’re making up stats. That’s not even a widely used stat LMAOOOO. If I wanted to, I can easily pull up raw AND advanced stats that shut down your whole argument. That’s how easy it is to manipulate with bs stats

It’s simple as this:

MPJ, Murray, Gordon, KCP >Dame, Middleton, Lopez, and Beasley.

Middleton and Lopez are pretty much 4th to 5th maybe even 6th options on the Nuggets. Not too mention neither have been great defensively either.

You Jokic Stan’s are in denial. Giannis is the best player in basketball bar none and will be the mvp unless Embiid takes it. And no, Jokic isn’t the greatest anything. Greatest offensive unit with 1 ring, yea alright. Murray played all star level in the playoffs so that’s irrelevant also, Murray literally has nearly the same stats as Kobe in 99-00. Miss me with the bs. I can literally cherry pick for any player in history

Pull up some, I want to see them lmao.

So you're just going to go with the "eye test". Cool...so in that case I know to ignore your opinion since it's not backed by any statistical analysis, but rather "feelings". How old are you? Genuine question since you're choosing to disregard the empirical evidence in front of you.

Crafted NBA: https://craftednba.com/

Oh and:

Aaron Gordon: .088 WS/48, -0.7 BPM, 0.2 VORP
Khris Middleton: .095 WS/48, 0.4 BPM, 0.3 VORP

I’m not going by eye test. I’m going by the fact that I simply don’t value those stats that you posted. Again, you’re posting useless stats. Middleton is an injury risk who can’t even play full games consistently so no, he would not be viewed as a scoring option over Gordon. Middleton isn’t even the third scoring option on the Bucks. Again, you clearly don’t watch games and like to use useless stats to cover your lack of knowledge. This is something that’s easy to look up and show why your stats are skewed in the first place

Middleton: 20 games played
Murray: 11 games played

Projection @ the underlined

EDIT: No wonder your +1 count is so low. You just play Devil's Advocate nonstop with your trolling, emotional arguments and lack of empirical evidence. 900 +1, almost 5000 posts