What in the Hell Can the Nuggets Do?

[Alatan]

MPj - LaVine trade can't work for the Nuggets on defensive side. Some people said MPj is not great defender himself and maybe LaVine in good structure and with better effort can be good defender too. Yes, truth. But in the playoffs teams are looking to target any weakness teams have. One of Nuggets weaknesses on defense is Jokic is not good rim protector. So in pnr they play him on the level using his great hands and other players are rotating behind in help a helper way. But first rotation here is important. In this scheme when opponent pass to a roller AG and MPj are there to stop C from scoring and force pass out. MPj can do that. LaVine can't. People should just look how Nuggets defense looked in their championship run with MPj and AG compared to how it looked when they lost in the first round to GSW the year before with AG and Barton in MPj's place, as back line of defense.

The same thing is when people say how Nuggets could have won championship with 10-12 players in Murray's place. In Nuggets 1st playoffs with this team 18-19 in the second round against Portland, Murray was bullied in the post by Rodney Hood. He put a ton of muscles because of that and transformed his body. People can see how he looked before that and after. He is listed as 6'4", 215 lbs, now. Butler tried to use his strenght in the post in the finals but Murray held his own. How many other PGs in the league could do that?

Rodney Hood was not the top 3 reason Nuggets lost that series. And stop propping up Murray as some unique CG. There is literally 10+ guards that could replace him without Denver losing a beat.

[Ssj16]

I'm a LaVine truther, and think he could be the second scorer that they need. However, the ATL potential trade to get 3 rotational pieces is tempting. I can see Hunter/Bogi/Nance all thriving next to Jokic who'd be able to use their skills well.

trading for Lavine would decimate the rest of Jokic's prime, I can't believe they're even considering it

there's a reason Lavine has never been on a winning team - he's not very good. high volume scorer, used to be inefficient and has been shooting the lights out this season, might just be a flash in the pan, only been 25 games or so, he might regress to his mean and cool off soon enough. Lavine is a terrible defender and a low I.Q player.

Denver's front court has been very big these last couple of seasons with Jokic, AG and MPJ. it allows for great things on both ends and is vital defensively, as MPJ is their best help defender down low and a decent defensive rebounder as well. he's 6'10 and long.

Lavine is a wing...currently they are about 5h in offense, even with Murray playing like he has been but 16th and below average defensively. flipping MPJ for Lavine isn't going to elevate them much (if any) on offense but will crater their defense

a lineup of Murray\Lavine\Jokic would get killed in the playoffs defensively and is never winning a chip, imo

Lavine's contract was and still is considered toxic for a reason, he's overpaid and has a history of major injuries as well. yes, he's had a good start to his season but I can't believe even the Nuggets are stupid enough to bite such a trade

MPJ plays his role well on both ends, while Lavine is the better player (not by much) - he is much less suited to play that role. sure, he'll thrive plenty of space to operate next to Jokic but it would mean alot of ball stopping and stupid shots, I don't even think he'll improve their offense if i'm being honest (despite being the better scorer of the two)


p.s, it's also ludicrous for a franchise and coach who use "family" as their motto, to dump MPJ whose been a home grown player whom they've been very patient with and is close with the core, staff etc and for whom, for Zach friggin' Lavine?

I wanna see the clown Malone calling out: "1,2,3 family!" after such a move, lol

When has LaVine been inefficient? Back in Minnesota? I can get not liking him but his TS% over the last 5 years is .613. It's been over .600 in all those years except last year where he played all of 25 games.

edit: Over the last 5 seasons, MPJ's TS% is .617. Basically the same as LaVine. You really have a bad take on LaVine, he isn't a chucker.

Also, this doesn't take into account the Jokic affect. If we remember Wiggins, he was considered a loser player only playing on a dysfunctional team (at the time) in Minnesota.

He goes to GS and all of a sudden, he becomes arguably the second best player in the finals and wins a ring while his level of play went up a notch.

There is a world where the final version of Lavine is unlocked playing on a mature team with one of the greatest players of all time.

Lavine has that dog in him and can easily go for 30+ on any given night, which seems to be lacking at the moment with Murray being unpredictable.

Would I say for certain this is the right move to make, it's hard to say. But I also think it's worth exploring, depending on how the next 8 weeks pan out.

[Ssj16]

Nothing.

Their window closed the moment Murray regressed the way he did. For them to have any chance of being serious title contenders again, he has to return to form. Often times a team's window is determined not by their best player and superstar but their number two guy, as crazy as it sounds. We know what the number one guy is gonna do, get his points and make an impact etc but the consistency by the number two guy is the key.

The Nuggets extending Murray after having such an awful four month strength from the playoffs that carried into the olympics looks worse by the day.

This.

Especially for Denver. As a Lakers fan, I don't and never have feared Jokic. Its Murray who I didn't want to see. He was always the X factor.

It's weird wouldn't also fear Jokic as he gives AD the business when they match up.

[Exp0sed]

Also, this doesn't take into account the Jokic affect. If we remember Wiggins, he was considered a loser player only playing on a dysfunctional team (at the time) in Minnesota.

He goes to GS and all of a sudden, he becomes arguably the second best player in the finals and wins a ring while his level of play went up a notch.

There is a world where the final version of Lavine is unlocked playing on a mature team with one of the greatest players of all time.

Lavine has that dog in him and can easily go for 30+ on any given night, which seems to be lacking at the moment with Murray being unpredictable.

Would I say for certain this is the right move to make, it's hard to say. But I also think it's worth exploring, depending on how the next 8 weeks pan out.

hmm sure, there's a scenario in which Lavine is ballin', buying in and eventually being seen in a new light, playing for a winning team and next to the maestro Jokic. however, as I explained in a previous post and a few others (like Belgrade) have elaborated very correctly - Lavine is a wing and a bad defender. MPJ plays some very important defensive roles (despite not being a great defender himself). his length, size and mobility, at 6'10 or 6'11 from the SF position is integral to the Nuggets defensive strategies, schems and needs. A backcourt of Murray and Lavine with Jokic as the last line of defense isn't going anywhere in the playoffs, a first rd. exit probably. they'd get killed defensively, so whether Lavine will go off for 30+ (occasionally) or not, would matter very little

there's also a scenario in which Lavine doesn't gel at all or gets injured and the Nuggets are stuck with two albatros contracts long term and with no flexibility with MPJ and AG both on undesirable long term contracts as well (not as bad as Murray and Lavine's contract, but still). that will essentialy end Jokic's prime era, a Lavine for MPJ trade is a fireable offense, it's a potentially and quite likely - a franchise killing move

MPJ is better in his role for the Nuggets and he's considerably cheaper. if Booth pulls the trigger on this that would mean he really is clueless about how the modern game is being played (and won)

that's like a 90's trade where the talking heads can cite Lavine's "star" qualities and talk about his career PPG average. sad sad times

[zero rings]

Nuggets fans are overthinking this imo. Lavine is better than MPJ at basically everything except rebounding. He's an even better shooter, a much more athletic slasher, and he can actually handle the ball a little bit. He's scoring 22 ppg on 63% TS on a bad Bulls team. Imagine what he could do with the Jokic Bump?

I get the concerns over his defense, but it's not like the Nuggets are losing Scottie Pippen in this deal. MPJ is a bad defender in his own right and the Nuggets are ranked 15th in defense. I think they would be about the same with Lavine, and any drop off in defense would be more than offset by his offense.

MPJ + Nnaji for Lavine is a no-brainer. Get it done, Booth.

Its a lateral move at best. They are not wining anything with a defensive backcourt of Murray and Lavine with Jokic being the last line of defense.

They are not wining anything with MPJ either. But trading for Lavine is just smoke and mirrors that could ruin chemistry.

The only answer is Butler if they could get him and work out spacing.

They’re not winning anything as constructed, and I’d rather roll the dice on Lavine. He’s a much better offensive player than MPJ and he makes them more dangerous in the playoffs. This is a guy who could have multiple 30+ pt games in a series, something MPJ is never going to do in his life. I’m not worried about chemistry as long as they have Jokic - Lavine will look great next to him.

If the defense stinks and it doesn’t work, you move Murray + picks in the offseason when he can be traded. Lavine is a better second option anyways, and they’re not going to get a better player than him for the low cost of MPJ + Nnaji. Miami is going to want more than that for Butler.

Denver is in a big hole with all the terrible contracts they’ve handed out, and they’re going to have to take some calculated risks to get out of it. Sitting pat is just punting another prime Jokic season.

[giannis and 1]

Jokic needs to be traded for Milwaukee or Giannis and Dame need to come to Denver-

Honestly I have never seen two franchises mismanage the rosters of top 20 to potentially top 5 players this bad ever.

Their GMs should be fired immediately- while Dallas, OKC, Gouston, Boston, minny and the 76ers are making moves to give their best players a chance - the bucks and nuggets are trying to see how difficult they can make it for their star

What the actual **** are you talking about? Giannis has Dame, Middleton, Lopez, Portis to play with, with depth players like Green, Ajax, GTJ, Prince….

[BelgradeNugget]

MPj - LaVine trade can't work for the Nuggets on defensive side. Some people said MPj is not great defender himself and maybe LaVine in good structure and with better effort can be good defender too. Yes, truth. But in the playoffs teams are looking to target any weakness teams have. One of Nuggets weaknesses on defense is Jokic is not good rim protector. So in pnr they play him on the level using his great hands and other players are rotating behind in help a helper way. But first rotation here is important. In this scheme when opponent pass to a roller AG and MPj are there to stop C from scoring and force pass out. MPj can do that. LaVine can't. People should just look how Nuggets defense looked in their championship run with MPj and AG compared to how it looked when they lost in the first round to GSW the year before with AG and Barton in MPj's place, as back line of defense.

The same thing is when people say how Nuggets could have won championship with 10-12 players in Murray's place. In Nuggets 1st playoffs with this team 18-19 in the second round against Portland, Murray was bullied in the post by Rodney Hood. He put a ton of muscles because of that and transformed his body. People can see how he looked before that and after. He is listed as 6'4", 215 lbs, now. Butler tried to use his strenght in the post in the finals but Murray held his own. How many other PGs in the league could do that?

Rodney Hood was not the top 3 reason Nuggets lost that series. And stop propping up Murray as some unique CG. There is literally 10+ guards that could replace him without Denver losing a beat.

Rodny Hood was one of the main reasons why Denver lost. In the regular season 18-19 he was Portland's 5th scorrer averaging 9.6 pts shooting 45.2/34.5/80.5. In the playoffs 9.9 shooting 45.2/34.5/80.5. Against Nuggets he was Portland's 3rd scorrer averaging 14.7 pts in 24 minutes shooting 57.6/50.0/77.4. He scorred 25 on 8-12/3-4/6-9 in game 6 that tied series 3-3 and was Portland's best +21. Dame was -2 in that game. CJ was most important for Portland in game 7 and for the whole series. Lillard was shooting 40.7/28.8/79.6 for the series. Rodny Hood was unqestioned 3 best player for Portland.

Maybe it is time for you to stop shiting on any Nuggets player not named Jokic. This is NBA forum. Denver is NBA team. Jokic is part of the team. If Denver didn't support him he would never won MVP's and championship. People from Denver never **** on Jokic unlike my countryman did when he decided to skip some international competition. So please show some respect for the team he plays for and teammates that helped him win.

[Drakeem]

I'm a LaVine truther, and think he could be the second scorer that they need. However, the ATL potential trade to get 3 rotational pieces is tempting. I can see Hunter/Bogi/Nance all thriving next to Jokic who'd be able to use their skills well.

trading for Lavine would decimate the rest of Jokic's prime, I can't believe they're even considering it

there's a reason Lavine has never been on a winning team - he's not very good. high volume scorer who doesn't do much of anything else. used to be inefficient but has been shooting the lights out this season, might just be a flash in the pan, only been 25 games or so he might regress to his mean and cool off soon enough, my money's on his regressing sooner rather than later.
more importantly, Lavine is a terrible defender and a low I.Q player.

the only way to make this deal is to trade MPJ as Murray isn't eligible and no1 else makes enough money to match Lavine's huge overypay of a contract

Denver's front court has been very big these last couple of seasons with Jokic, AG and MPJ. it allows for great things on both ends and is vital defensively, as MPJ is their best help defender down low and a decent defensive rebounder as well. he's 6'10 and long. the size of their front court has played a big part in their success

Lavine is a wing...currently they are about 5h in offense, even with Murray playing like he has been but 16th and below average defensively. flipping MPJ for Lavine isn't going to elevate them much (if any) on offense but will crater their defense

a lineup of Murray\Lavine\Jokic would get killed in the playoffs defensively and is never winning a chip, imo

Lavine's contract was and still is considered toxic for a reason, he's overpaid and has a history of major injuries as well. yes, he's had a good start to his season but I can't believe even the Nuggets are stupid enough to bite such a trade

MPJ plays his role well on both ends, while Lavine is the better player (not by much) - he is much less suited to play that role. sure, he'll thrive plenty of space to operate next to Jokic but it would mean alot of ball stopping and stupid shots, I don't even think he'll improve their offense if i'm being honest (despite being the better scorer of the two)

the Nuggets already have a "2nd scorer" and his name is MPJ, whose averging 18.5 on good efficiency while being a much better defender and rebounder than Lavine and is also younger and much cheaper

p.s, it's also ludicrous for a franchise and coach who use "family" as their motto, to dump MPJ whose been a home grown player whom they've been very patient with and is close with the core, staff etc and for whom, for Zach friggin' Lavine?

I wanna see the clown Malone calling out: "1,2,3 family!" after such a move, lol

Most of this just isn't true. LaVine is incredibly efficient as a volume scorer in Chicago, even if you take away this season. I also laugh at the ball stopping when LaVine is an amazing cutter. I can't blame him for not moving the ball when the only PG he had to work with in Chicago went down like 20 games into his first season.

MPJ also isn't a good defender, and has health concerns of his own. We can argue that Denver will be impacted with the lack of length, but MPJ is just as bad of a defender as LaVine. MPJ also owes most of his efficiency to Jokic. When Jokic isn't playing, MPJs percentages go from over 50% to 41-42%, and his 3 ball goes from 42% to around 26-27%.

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask?q=michael+porter+jr.+stats+with+and+without+nikola+joki%C4%87

MPJ's back is a ticking time bomb and they've been lucky these last two seasons that he hasn't reaggravated it. Because he's so cautious of his back, he's simplified his game to avoid injuries. MPJ will never be a great off the dribble player, and paying 40-50 million for an admittedly great spot up shooter is A LOT of cap.

I also can't ignore the irony of calling LaVine a ball stopper when MPJ averaged like less than 2 assists a game throughout his career, even admitting that once he touches the ball, he's looking to shoot immediately.

[Alatan]

MPj - LaVine trade can't work for the Nuggets on defensive side. Some people said MPj is not great defender himself and maybe LaVine in good structure and with better effort can be good defender too. Yes, truth. But in the playoffs teams are looking to target any weakness teams have. One of Nuggets weaknesses on defense is Jokic is not good rim protector. So in pnr they play him on the level using his great hands and other players are rotating behind in help a helper way. But first rotation here is important. In this scheme when opponent pass to a roller AG and MPj are there to stop C from scoring and force pass out. MPj can do that. LaVine can't. People should just look how Nuggets defense looked in their championship run with MPj and AG compared to how it looked when they lost in the first round to GSW the year before with AG and Barton in MPj's place, as back line of defense.

The same thing is when people say how Nuggets could have won championship with 10-12 players in Murray's place. In Nuggets 1st playoffs with this team 18-19 in the second round against Portland, Murray was bullied in the post by Rodney Hood. He put a ton of muscles because of that and transformed his body. People can see how he looked before that and after. He is listed as 6'4", 215 lbs, now. Butler tried to use his strenght in the post in the finals but Murray held his own. How many other PGs in the league could do that?

Rodney Hood was not the top 3 reason Nuggets lost that series. And stop propping up Murray as some unique CG. There is literally 10+ guards that could replace him without Denver losing a beat.

Rodny Hood was one of the main reasons why Denver lost. In the regular season 18-19 he was Portland's 5th scorrer averaging 9.6 pts shooting 45.2/34.5/80.5. In the playoffs 9.9 shooting 45.2/34.5/80.5. Against Nuggets he was Portland's 3rd scorrer averaging 14.7 pts in 24 minutes shooting 57.6/50.0/77.4. He scorred 25 on 8-12/3-4/6-9 in game 6 that tied series 3-3 and was Portland's best +21. Dame was -2 in that game. CJ was most important for Portland in game 7 and for the whole series. Lillard was shooting 40.7/28.8/79.6 for the series. Rodny Hood was unqestioned 3 best player for Portland.

Maybe it is time for you to stop shiting on any Nuggets player not named Jokic. This is NBA forum. Denver is NBA team. Jokic is part of the team. If Denver didn't support him he would never won MVP's and championship. People from Denver never **** on Jokic unlike my countryman did when he decided to skip some international competition. So please show some respect for the team he plays for and teammates that helped him win.

Rondney Hood had one big moment in that series when he came into the game 7 overtime fresh while everyone was exhausted. All 6 games before that he was a regular Joe. Stating how Murray is some important defensive piece on the Nuggets because he bulked up to counter being abused in the post by Rodney Hood is hilarious.

[Alatan]

Nuggets fans are overthinking this imo. Lavine is better than MPJ at basically everything except rebounding. He's an even better shooter, a much more athletic slasher, and he can actually handle the ball a little bit. He's scoring 22 ppg on 63% TS on a bad Bulls team. Imagine what he could do with the Jokic Bump?

I get the concerns over his defense, but it's not like the Nuggets are losing Scottie Pippen in this deal. MPJ is a bad defender in his own right and the Nuggets are ranked 15th in defense. I think they would be about the same with Lavine, and any drop off in defense would be more than offset by his offense.

MPJ + Nnaji for Lavine is a no-brainer. Get it done, Booth.

Its a lateral move at best. They are not wining anything with a defensive backcourt of Murray and Lavine with Jokic being the last line of defense.

They are not wining anything with MPJ either. But trading for Lavine is just smoke and mirrors that could ruin chemistry.

The only answer is Butler if they could get him and work out spacing.

They’re not winning anything as constructed, and I’d rather roll the dice on Lavine. He’s a much better offensive player than MPJ and he makes them more dangerous in the playoffs. This is a guy who could have multiple 30+ pt games in a series, something MPJ is never going to do in his life. I’m not worried about chemistry as long as they have Jokic - Lavine will look great next to him.

If the defense stinks and it doesn’t work, you move Murray + picks in the offseason when he can be traded. Lavine is a better second option anyways, and they’re not going to get a better player than him for the low cost of MPJ + Nnaji. Miami is going to want more than that for Butler.

Denver is in a big hole with all the terrible contracts they’ve handed out, and they’re going to have to take some calculated risks to get out of it. Sitting pat is just punting another prime Jokic season.

The problem is that you cant move Murray for anything that wont tank the whole franchise and their chances to win anything. Lavine duplicates what Murray brings. Both the good and the bad. You cant have both of them on the roster and hope to win anything.

[TheFire]

The Nuggets are cooked and one trade won't fix that. It's an accumulation of bad roster decisions that culminated with giving Murray 5/244. It's better to ride out the mediocrity and hope they catch a break in the playoffs sometime during the next few years while Jokic's prime lasts.

There is nothing mediocre about them. They will likely finish as a top 3 seed in the west despite all the issues. They can still come out of the west I believe. West is not as strong as people think. Thunder, rockets and Grizz are not playoff tested at all.

[BelgradeNugget]

Rodney Hood was not the top 3 reason Nuggets lost that series. And stop propping up Murray as some unique CG. There is literally 10+ guards that could replace him without Denver losing a beat.

Rodny Hood was one of the main reasons why Denver lost. In the regular season 18-19 he was Portland's 5th scorrer averaging 9.6 pts shooting 45.2/34.5/80.5. In the playoffs 9.9 shooting 45.2/34.5/80.5. Against Nuggets he was Portland's 3rd scorrer averaging 14.7 pts in 24 minutes shooting 57.6/50.0/77.4. He scorred 25 on 8-12/3-4/6-9 in game 6 that tied series 3-3 and was Portland's best +21. Dame was -2 in that game. CJ was most important for Portland in game 7 and for the whole series. Lillard was shooting 40.7/28.8/79.6 for the series. Rodny Hood was unqestioned 3 best player for Portland.

Maybe it is time for you to stop shiting on any Nuggets player not named Jokic. This is NBA forum. Denver is NBA team. Jokic is part of the team. If Denver didn't support him he would never won MVP's and championship. People from Denver never **** on Jokic unlike my countryman did when he decided to skip some international competition. So please show some respect for the team he plays for and teammates that helped him win.

Rondney Hood had one big moment in that series when he came into the game 7 overtime fresh while everyone was exhausted. All 6 games before that he was a regular Joe. Stating how Murray is some important defensive piece on the Nuggets because he bulked up to counter being abused in the post by Rodney Hood is hilarious.

When I say something I usually back it up by facts you never do.
1. Hood was Portland's 3rd scorrer and most efficient one
2. Game 7 didn't have overtime it was game 3. He had that moment in game 3. He also scored 25 pts on 67% in 24 minutes in game 6 when Portland tied series
3. After Murray was bullied by Rodney Hood he bulked up not to be bullied again. That is why JIMMY BUTLER (know him?) couldn't bully him in the NBA finals. Did you got it this time? Nevermind

[nomansland]

The Nuggets are cooked and one trade won't fix that. It's an accumulation of bad roster decisions that culminated with giving Murray 5/244. It's better to ride out the mediocrity and hope they catch a break in the playoffs sometime during the next few years while Jokic's prime lasts.

There is nothing mediocre about them. They will likely finish as a top 3 seed in the west despite all the issues. They can still come out of the west I believe. West is not as strong as people think. Thunder, rockets and Grizz are not playoff tested at all.

Every year people say "OMG the West is soooo frkcin' tough! It's gonna be a bloodbath." And yeah they tend to beat up on each other but there are always injuries and surprises.

Of course I'm biased but when I read that they're cooked, not winning anything, Murray's toast, Porter's a walking back injury in the waiting, blah blah, blah blah, I remember that they were in pretty much the same position record-wise this time of year the past 2 seasons. I'm not going to bet my house that they'll go deep into the playoffs but I'm also not writing them off either.

And it's nice to get just a bit of validation about that from a Suns fan. Thank you.

[CobraCommander]

Jokic needs to be traded for Milwaukee or Giannis and Dame need to come to Denver-

Honestly I have never seen two franchises mismanage the rosters of top 20 to potentially top 5 players this bad ever.

Their GMs should be fired immediately- while Dallas, OKC, Gouston, Boston, minny and the 76ers are making moves to give their best players a chance - the bucks and nuggets are trying to see how difficult they can make it for their star

What the actual **** are you talking about? Giannis has Dame, Middleton, Lopez, Portis to play with, with depth players like Green, Ajax, GTJ, Prince….

Dame is a defensive liability and streaky… the rest of that squad is bad by comparison to all the teams I named - Giannis is carrying that team bro

[Exp0sed]

I'm a LaVine truther, and think he could be the second scorer that they need. However, the ATL potential trade to get 3 rotational pieces is tempting. I can see Hunter/Bogi/Nance all thriving next to Jokic who'd be able to use their skills well.

Most of this just isn't true. LaVine is incredibly efficient as a volume scorer in Chicago, even if you take away this season. I also laugh at the ball stopping when LaVine is an amazing cutter. I can't blame him for not moving the ball when the only PG he had to work with in Chicago went down like 20 games into his first season.

MPJ also isn't a good defender, and has health concerns of his own. We can argue that Denver will be impacted with the lack of length, but MPJ is just as bad of a defender as LaVine. MPJ also owes most of his efficiency to Jokic. When Jokic isn't playing, MPJs percentages go from over 50% to 41-42%, and his 3 ball goes from 42% to around 26-27%.

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask?q=michael+porter+jr.+stats+with+and+without+nikola+joki%C4%87

MPJ's back is a ticking time bomb and they've been lucky these last two seasons that he hasn't reaggravated it. Because he's so cautious of his back, he's simplified his game to avoid injuries. MPJ will never be a great off the dribble player, and paying 40-50 million for an admittedly great spot up shooter is A LOT of cap.

I also can't ignore the irony of calling LaVine a ball stopper when MPJ averaged like less than 2 assists a game throughout his career, even admitting that once he touches the ball, he's looking to shoot immediately.

you said you don't "blame him for not moving the ball" yet denied he's a ball stopper? seems contradictory

I agree with alot of what u said, MPJ's back is a ticking time bomb (or a serious injury concern at the least), his efficiency drops off without Jokic, he's a pretty bad defender in his own right (in a vacum) and MPJ himself used to one of the worst ball stoppers\tunnel vision\black holes in the league. he has gotten better some on that front, speaking as someone who has watched most of the Nuggets games for a couple of seasons not just judging by him almost doubling his (measly) assists total

with that said, I agee with all of these points and still think it'd be a stupid trade that may even turn disastrous for the Nuggets.
the "length" issue is huge, as other Nuggets faithful have pointed out - their schemes and lineups rely on MPJ's help defense at the rim and in challenging shots. a smaller Lavine can't challenge 4's and 5's in the paint and the Nuggets will be carved up and abused defensively. secondly, MPJ is making 35m this year and will top out at 40m in 26-27 (so, not 40-50m)

Jokic is playing big mins, so the bulk of MPJ's mins are alongside him and so would Zach's mins be. thus what he does without him isn't as significant as u make it out to be. Lavine is very injury prone himself, MPJ isn't, he's been kind of an ironman these past couple of seasons. yes, he's a unique case of coming back from multiple back surgeries and his career probably won't last till late in his 30's which is now kind of the norm but for the length of this contract, meaning this season and two more - give me MPJ's chances of availability over Lavine's

is he a better player than MPJ? sure (tho not by much imo, I don't value Zach very highly) but there's no way the Nuggets can make it work defensively with Lavine, that starting back court coupled with Jokic is never winning a chip, period. these Nuggets with MPJ already have and that's all anyone really needs to know

[JM00n69]

Trading MPJ for Zach would not give DEN any meaningful upside as a contender.

You can argue all day about which specific areas one is better than the other but at best it's a sideways move. Then if you take into account history and years playing together/chemistry, same length contracts but Zach more expensive and a PO last yr. Recent injury history massively in favor of MPJ and the fact that MPJ can slide to the 4 for some minutes on the second unit which Zach can't its a trade that doesn't need to happen.

Denver's hands are tied as to what trades they can make. The hole they need to plug is a mobile big with size that can play the 4/5 off the bench, quick enough to help on rotations and defend the post. Someone who's got good hands and quick decision making to be able to fit in the fast pace offence. Doesn't need to be shooter, it's the defense and rebounding, if they can cut and finish a few plays on offence that's enough

Uncle Jeff played that role in the championship run and he's like 6'8 probably and was 35+ I'm sure. But he was athletic at would contest on D from the perimeter and could rebound. He could shoot and finish and read the offence and pass/had good hands. Someone like that but preferably taller than can also play the 5 so you don't need AG on the floor with them.

That's the role they need to fill. Malone has had to try Hunter Tyson in that spot last 5+ games and while you can't fault the effort Hunter brings (he really does try, bless him) he's just constantly beat on defense and he'll be played off the floor in the playoffs.

[LeBronSpaghetti]

Trading MPJ for Lavine isn’t the best option in my opinion. You lost a lot of rebounding in that scenario. Defense and length too, as others have already pointed out.

If you trade MPJ I think it has to be to get multiple rotation players in return. So to the Hawks for some combination of Hunter/Bogdanovic/Nance or Nets for something like Johnson/DFS.

I’m not saying either of these are realistic or even make Denver better, but at least they fill a need. You get better defensively and improve your depth. Going from Porter to Lavine feels so lateral to me. It’s like going from the 5th best offense in the league to the 3rd best offense while defense and rebounding correspondingly gets slightly worse. I just don’t see it. Offense isn’t this teams problem even with Murray playing as bad as he possibly can.

[Exp0sed]

Trading MPJ for Zach would not give DEN any meaningful upside as a contender.


The hole they need to plug is a mobile big with size that can play the 4/5 off the bench, quick enough to help on rotations and defend the post. Someone who's got good hands and quick decision making to be able to fit in the fast pace offence. Doesn't need to be shooter, it's the defense and rebounding, if they can cut and finish a few plays on offence that's enough

fwiw, in the offseason the Nuggets selected (or rather traded with PHX) Daron Holmes in the draft. he was supposed to fill that role, they hoped he could give them some backup mins right away. that obviously backfired as he had a season ending achiless injury before the season started. it was a gamble and it backfired...

[cucad8]

The hole they need to plug is a mobile big with size that can play the 4/5 off the bench, quick enough to help on rotations and defend the post. Someone who's got good hands and quick decision making to be able to fit in the fast pace offence. Doesn't need to be shooter, it's the defense and rebounding, if they can cut and finish a few plays on offence that's enough

Uncle Jeff played that role in the championship run and he's like 6'8 probably and was 35+ I'm sure. But he was athletic at would contest on D from the perimeter and could rebound. He could shoot and finish and read the offence and pass/had good hands. Someone like that but preferably taller than can also play the 5 so you don't need AG on the floor with them.

That's the role they need to fill. Malone has had to try Hunter Tyson in that spot last 5+ games and while you can't fault the effort Hunter brings (he really does try, bless him) he's just constantly beat on defense and he'll be played off the floor in the playoffs.

RW3 would be a great fit.

[Exp0sed]

The hole they need to plug is a mobile big with size that can play the 4/5 off the bench, quick enough to help on rotations and defend the post. Someone who's got good hands and quick decision making to be able to fit in the fast pace offence. Doesn't need to be shooter, it's the defense and rebounding, if they can cut and finish a few plays on offence that's enough

Uncle Jeff played that role in the championship run and he's like 6'8 probably and was 35+ I'm sure. But he was athletic at would contest on D from the perimeter and could rebound. He could shoot and finish and read the offence and pass/had good hands. Someone like that but preferably taller than can also play the 5 so you don't need AG on the floor with them.

That's the role they need to fill. Malone has had to try Hunter Tyson in that spot last 5+ games and while you can't fault the effort Hunter brings (he really does try, bless him) he's just constantly beat on defense and he'll be played off the floor in the playoffs.

RW3 would be a great fit.

he will be a monster, he could also spot start next to Jokic and be a great fit when one of the other guys is missing. problem for Denver is that PDX is gonna get multiple offers for him imo and the Nuggets can't outbid those other teams as they don't have much in the way of trading