The Official James Harden Thread

MrCheerios · Post #381 » by **MrCheerios** » Sat Nov 3, 2012 7:17 pm

I wish the third option on my team could play against the Pistons and Hawks and go off for 37 and 45 points. Man, OKC was stacked.

Post #382 » by **tsherkin** » Sat Nov 3, 2012 7:27 pm

MnM24 wrote:Don't think the Booz will be amnestied.

We'll see. His contract isn't great and Chicago could really use the flexibility. Still, they'll probably wait until Rose comes back, because last year the two of them were clicking at a new level. I guess you're right, it's not a guarantee.

K1NG · Post #383 » by **K1NG** » Sat Nov 3, 2012 7:48 pm

Ayt wrote:
slick_watts wrote:Not surprised. James is doing the same things he did for OKC just with higher volume. He'll obviously come down to Earth a little bit but he'll be among the lead leaders in scoring if his USG stays at or around 30%, and he will be worth that contract. Could have had him at 4/60.

Yeah. People should not be surprised he's capable of huge games.

Stop it. The dude is averaging 40+ ppg in the first two games. No one saw that coming.

HornetJail · Post #384 » by **HornetJail** » Sat Nov 3, 2012 7:51 pm

K1NG wrote:
Ayt wrote:
slick_watts wrote:Not surprised. James is doing the same things he did for OKC just with higher volume. He'll obviously come down to Earth a little bit but he'll be among the lead leaders in scoring if his USG stays at or around 30%, and he will be worth that contract. Could have had him at 4/60.

Yeah. People should not be surprised he's capable of huge games.

Stop it. The dude is averaging 40+ ppg in the first two games. No one saw that coming.

A casual fan could've told you Harden would have some huge games as a first option. He'll slowly come down, but I fully expect about 22-25ppg, 5-6apg, 5-6rpg from him this season.

Post #385 » by **tsherkin** » Sat Nov 3, 2012 8:06 pm

CHA_77_Bobcats wrote:A casual fan could've told you Harden would have some huge games as a first option. He'll slowly come down, but I fully expect about 22-25ppg, 5-6apg, 5-6rpg from him this season.

That seems reasonable. He averaged 19/5/4 PER36 last season, with a usage of 21.6%. We can expect that to stay in the mid/high 20s this season, and he's not a volume playmaker, so he should be generating a lot of shots for himself, certainly enough to get into that volume scoring range. Telling will be his turnover and efficiency markers, but even those will have to be taken with a grain of salt given that it's his first season as a starter. It should be a very exciting season for Rockets fans, the first one in quite some time, regardless of the specific outcome.

Personally, I suspect something like 24 ppg on 56-57% TS, coupled with maybe 4.5 to 5 rpg and 5-6 apg with an alright but not staggering TOV% (maybe the same ~14-15% he's managed the last two seasons).

That'd be a fantastic season, probably around +1.5 to +2.5 TS% over league average, which would be strong but not totally insane for a first season, and an excellent foundation for building upon moving forward as their primary star guard.

smith2373 · Post #386 » by **smith2373** » Sat Nov 3, 2012 8:12 pm

I know it's still early but if Harden can keep up a high level of play and the Rockets are winning by All-Star break, do you guys think it's possible he could get voted in to start at one of the guards positions in the ASG?

Wreckus13 · Post #387 » by **Wreckus13** » Sat Nov 3, 2012 8:16 pm

smith2373 wrote:I know it's still early but if Harden can keep up a high level of play and the Rockets are winning by All-Star break, do you guys think it's possible he could get voted in to start at one of the guards positions in the ASG?

Nah I still think it will be Paul and Kobe. Simply because they're a lot more popular.

KDgoat · Post #388 » by **KDgoat** » Sat Nov 3, 2012 8:17 pm

smith2373 wrote:I know it's still early but if Harden can keep up a high level of play and the Rockets are winning by All-Star break, do you guys think it's possible he could get voted in to start at one of the guards positions in the ASG?

I don't think he's popular enough to be a starter. But bench? Can't see why not.

Post #389 » by **Trader_Joe** » Sat Nov 3, 2012 8:32 pm

NeZoRiL wrote:The thing is, Harden is one of the better sixth men we've seen recently, and the other players who've been awarded with the honor haven't been as effective. Crawford, or in Portland, 'Crawful', was good in Atlanta, his first stint anyways. It just irks me after two games we're talking about how he's worth 80 million dollars, putting him up with Manu and Pierce, feels a little soon to me. I think my bench idea is very simplistic, he'd shine off the bench, setting players up who can't create for themselves, spacing the floor, passing effectively, etc. He is the best player in Houston right now, and is becoming a different player, less passive more scoring, (exception: 37/12) which he will have to do from now on.

I see what you're getting at, but as a GM it is a huge risk to throw money at a guy who came off the bench. It isn't a bad thing by any means, it is paying off, but he gambled.

NOTE: Westbrook took a small pay-cut, fine. I'll compromise.

No.
Westbrook did not take a pay cut.
He got 5/80 from OKC.
The most he could have gotten from another team as a FA was 4/58. He even made OKC use their designated 5 year extension on him, thus they could not offer Harden a fifth year.

Bball Reasons · Post #390 » by **Bball Reasons** » Sat Nov 3, 2012 8:36 pm

Wreckus13 wrote:
smith2373 wrote:I know it's still early but if Harden can keep up a high level of play and the Rockets are winning by All-Star break, do you guys think it's possible he could get voted in to start at one of the guards positions in the ASG?

Nah I still think it will be Paul and Kobe. Simply because they're a lot more popular.

David Wesley was once close to being an allstar simply because he played with Yao. Anything is possible with Lin fans.

Kabookalu · Post #391 » by **Kabookalu** » Sat Nov 3, 2012 8:43 pm

One thing I haven't appreciated enough when he was with the Thunder is Harden's footwork. It's Paul Pierce like in how efficient his steps are. That's how he's able to get to the rim so effortlessly (being a lights out shooter and great playmaker helps too lol).

Post #392 » by **tsherkin** » Sat Nov 3, 2012 8:50 pm

Choker wrote:One thing I haven't appreciated enough when he was with the Thunder is Harden's footwork. It's Paul Pierce like in how efficient his steps are. That's how he's able to get to the rim so effortlessly (being a lights out shooter and great playmaker helps too lol).

This is a good observation; Harden isn't a stunningly explosive player (though obviously far from UNathletic) and he doesn't have a huge size advantage. He does, however, stand 6'5 in shoes with just shy of a 6'11 wingspan (a lot like a slightly taller Wade, actually) and he has good hops. You couple that with his footwork and how he uses screens and it becomes less and less surprising that he is a very effective offensive player. Obviously, his shooting ability from three helps as well.

inquisitive · Post #393 » by **inquisitive** » Sat Nov 3, 2012 9:21 pm

Lin and Harden are the best backup duo..... :wink:

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball- ... --nba.html

bigbadstevenson · Post #394 » by **bigbadstevenson** » Sat Nov 3, 2012 10:03 pm

Bball Reasons wrote:
East_Coast wrote:
Major Tom wrote:sometimes the stars align at the right time to make a perfect fit. you can see even with the small sample size that they belong together. no confusion, no tentativeness. push the ball attack, ill pass you the ball if not open ill take it or others will.

It looks good so far, but as you said its a very small sample size. What going to happen when adversity hits? Will Harden be able to assume not only on-court leadership in tough times, but off the court as well?

Portland tonight should be an interesting test.

Harden and Lin are two of the most humble, unselfish, religious, and all around easy going players in the NBA. I wouldn't worry about their relationship off the court.

Barf! That's far from a guarantee that a person will co-operate with others. It's a good thing that they have all of those other things going for them.

RutgersBJJ · Post #395 » by **RutgersBJJ** » Sat Nov 3, 2012 10:18 pm

Honestly, 5 or so more games approaching this level and it isn't just Westbrook that should have been traded before Harden. It becomes Durant too. He keeps showing the MANY things he can do, Durant only has 1 thing, Westbrook at least has decent d when he's not having multiple brain farts to add to his efficient chucker-iso penetrations.

Kabookalu · Post #396 » by **Kabookalu** » Sat Nov 3, 2012 10:20 pm

RutgersBJJ wrote:Honestly, 5 or so more games approaching this level and it isn't just Westbrook that should have been traded before Harden. It becomes Durant too. He keeps showing the MANY things he can do, Durant only has 1 thing, Westbrook at least has decent d when he's not having multiple brain farts to add to his efficient chucker-iso penetrations.

Too far.

Post #397 » by **tsherkin** » Sat Nov 3, 2012 10:24 pm

RutgersBJJ wrote:Honestly, 5 or so more games approaching this level and it isn't just Westbrook that should have been traded before Harden. It becomes Durant too. He keeps showing the MANY things he can do, Durant only has 1 thing, Westbrook at least has decent d when he's not having multiple brain farts to add to his efficient chucker-iso penetrations.

This is a little bit too far, especially after two games. And even in the hypothetical situation of 5 more games, that's still only 7 games. That's basically half a month worth of games, still not really enough to say anything meaningful except that he's hot to start the season (and we already know he's, at a base, still a very good player).

This is too exaggerated a projection and description, though.

Weems · Post #398 » by **Weems** » Sat Nov 3, 2012 10:47 pm

I'm one of the most staunch (admittedly delusional) Harden homers, but I'm disturbed. Sample size and opponent strength be damned, producing like that on such an abysmal offensive team is absurd. I'd have no reservations, even prior to last season, calling him a 22 PPG scorer on elite-elite efficiency on almost any other team, but the Rockets are a brutal fit. He's going to struggle catastrophically on a team starting Asik/Patterson/Parsons/Lin.

Durant Durant · Post #399 » by **Durant Durant** » Sat Nov 3, 2012 10:50 pm

Weems wrote:I'm one of the most staunch (admittedly delusional) Harden homers, but I'm disturbed. Sample size and opponent strength be damned, producing like that on such an abysmal offensive team is absurd. I'd have no reservations, even prior to last season, calling him a 22 PPG scorer on elite-elite efficiency on almost any other team, but the Rockets are a brutal fit. He's going to struggle catastrophically on a team starting Asik/Patterson/Parsons/Lin.

huh? i thought i was reading an old post prior to the trade.

Post #400 » by **Doctor MJ** » Sat Nov 3, 2012 11:16 pm

RutgersBJJ wrote:Honestly, 5 or so more games approaching this level and it isn't just Westbrook that should have been traded before Harden. It becomes Durant too. He keeps showing the MANY things he can do, Durant only has 1 thing, Westbrook at least has decent d when he's not having multiple brain farts to add to his efficient chucker-iso penetrations.

Nah, here's the thing:

The true "alpha" of OKC in terms of how much opportunity he takes up is Westbrook, not Durant. Durant produces more because he's that much more effective than Westbrook, but the beauty of Durant's game is how little he takes off the table from anyone else. You put him in Miami in place of either LeBron or Wade and they win the title in 2011 going away.

Suffice to say then that it might have been that if they used Harden like they should have in OKC he'd end up more valuable than Durant based on non-scoring areas, but Durant doing his thing will always be a good thing.