NBAPA Lawyer: Double standard exists regarding age limit for black basketball players and white athletes in other sports

[shangrila]

It's impossible to make a color-blind argument when you 100% are aware of the races of people involved. The people affected by NBA age caps are predominately black.

That still doesn't make the age cap racist. I'm not denying that it affects black people more, but that's because of demopgrahics. It isn't there to target people of colour.

If you want to argue it's exploitative, I won't disagree. It certainly is, forcing the players to go through college so that the NBA is better off for it (less chance of drafting a bust, for example). But to try to make out that it's racially motivated is absurd and, really, it does a disservice to actual civil rights issues going on in the States.

[Vinsanity_GOAT]

Can someone explain the following to me?

1. How can it be hypocritical or a double standard when the nba's leadership has nothing to do with making up the rules for nhl, mlb, or any other sports league? Common sense: it can't be.

2. The nba has every right to set an age requirement if they feel it improves their product, it's not against any law right?

3. How can it be racist if the rules apply to all races equally? Common sense: it isn't.

4. How is the nba forcing anyone to join the ncaa? Fact: they're not, players are free to go and play in any non-nba league afaik.

All of this stuff seems pretty straightforward to me.


P.S. Does anyone have access to accurate numbers of racial groups (including bi-racial) in the nba? I ask because there are tons of bi-racial players and simply counting them towards the black total really skews the numbers. They're as much white (or hispanic/latin, if that's a race, for guys like horford and melo) as they are black.

[Dominator83]

Ah the good old race card. The same amount of blacks draw an NBA paycheck regardless of age. The same amount of blacks enter the draft regardless of age. Owners, GMs, coaches, fans all want their team to draft the best player regardless of race. This isn't the 1960s. Let it go. The whole reason for the age limit is so teams can get a good look at the prospects before drafting them, nothing more nothing less

[SkyHookFTW]

Of course you will get the standard ignorant white guy response that it has nothing to do with race. When you're white, it's a lot easier to not see race. But this is clearly a racist policy- one that disproportionately affects black athletes and lines the NCAA's pockets.

Forget the NBA how about the NFL, where an athlete have to spend 4 years in some NCAA penitentiary before they can earn money for their services. The difference is that the NFL does not have any competition, apart from semi-pro leagues like Arena and the CFL, these football athletes have no other sporting options that can make them earn a good living.

It's three years for the NFL, and the policy in place is there to protect the players. 18 year old kids would get crippled in the NFL. Their bodies aren't developed enough. I played D1 for four years, and I know the NFL is way above that level of play. It's safe to say that 99.999% of 18 year-old players would stand no chance in a NFL training camp.

[SkyHookFTW]

Of course you will get the standard ignorant white guy response that it has nothing to do with race. When you're white, it's a lot easier to not see race. But this is clearly a racist policy- one that disproportionately affects black athletes and lines the NCAA's pockets.

Yeah, who wants a free education?

Not Kobe. Not Lebron. Not Kevin Garnett. Not a lot of young players. You are denying them the right to earn fair market value for their skills instead forcing them to work for fraction of their value while the NCAA and the Universities line up their pockets with money earned on the backs of the athletes.

You don't tell prodigies, gifted young entertainers in other fields, talented entrepreneurs - instead of earning millions, go to work for free for a University for a few years, earn them millions but you'll get a free education that is a fraction of what you could earn.

And race has everything to do with it. If the majority of NBA players were white - people would not be making the argument that the players weren't "mature" enough and needed an educational foundation to fall back on. It's only because the majority are black athletes that the argument that the kids are irresponsible and immature is sold.

You do realize that when the NBA was mostly white, the rule was in effect? Can you prove what you wrote? NCAA basketball is the de facto minor leagues for the NBA. Want the real solution? Let them earn their way to college the way non-athletes do--academically. Once accepted, pay them for playing. And I don't mean a stipend...pay them a fair percentage of what they earn for the college. Football and basketball fund every other sport in college. No other sport breaks even financially.

[ALL HAIL]

The more teenagers are allowed to enter this league, the less jobs will be available for seasoned veterans.

So allowing the young kids to come in without college is actually racist against all of the aging nba players who will be forced to retire early or go play abroad because all of the tanking teams want guys with young potential.

As this cycle continues, we will have more and more young athletes pushing out younger and younger mediocre vets. And since this lawyer has determined that this is racism only against the black athletes in the NBA (who can't get in young enough) this is also racism against older black athletes who are now getting booted too early.

I hate the word "racist". Not because of what it implies, but because in defending their own ideals, white people throw it around in the most patronizing and condescending ways, and every time a Black person uses it in 2015, eyes automatically begin to roll.

I say we retire the word "racist". I think we'd collectively get a lot further in these discussions by not using the word--it's become quite bastardized.

[Notanoob]

Why do mods let these discussions about race on here? They really are just awful threads. Move them to off-topic, I don't care if it's basketball related, race conversations are nothing but trouble.

[ALL HAIL]

Why do mods let these discussions about race on here? They really are just awful threads. Move them to off-topic, I don't care if it's basketball related, race conversations are nothing but trouble.

I think this is sad.

The only way to correct problems is to discuss them. Unfortunately, many would much rather do the opposite.

[Notanoob]

Why do mods let these discussions about race on here? They really are just awful threads. Move them to off-topic, I don't care if it's basketball related, race conversations are nothing but trouble.

I think this is sad.

The only way to correct problems is to discuss them. Unfortunately, many would much rather do the opposite.

I thought that we were on the right path in regards to this, but then media realized how much money they could make off race-baiting and started pushing all sorts of garbage. Now it's impossible. There's nothing but hostility.

[ALL HAIL]

Why do mods let these discussions about race on here? They really are just awful threads. Move them to off-topic, I don't care if it's basketball related, race conversations are nothing but trouble.

I think this is sad.

The only way to correct problems is to discuss them. Unfortunately, many would much rather do the opposite.

I thought that we were on the right path in regards to this, but then media realized how much money they could make off race-baiting and started pushing all sorts of garbage. Now it's impossible. There's nothing but hostility.

Like many white people, the election and metaphor of Obama as the first Black president gave you the false idea that progress was being made.

In reality though, the mere fact that we even call him "Black" is deep rooted in slavery dogma.

[pipfan]

It is so ridiculous to call this racist

IT WAS APPROVED BY THE PLAYERS-who are mostly black

It is about $-that's it. It helps the NBA and the NCAA-that's it.

It is unfair-obviously-but the players could easily bargain it out

[Leslie Forman]

One thing needs to be made clear - the reason this is a racist policy is not necessarily because of the NBA itself. It clearly makes sense business wise for them and those black high schoolers are just going to be replaced by slightly older young black men.

What is racist is that the narrative that it's "good for the kids" is even still around. Every time there is an age limit thread here, there are still loads of people spouting some "BUT EDUCATION" bullcrap, even though David Stern himself doesn't do that. That's something that only ever happens when talking about young black kids. Nobody talks like that about white sports prodigies. I sure as hell don't remember anybody saying Bryce Harper needs to go to college.

It's a racist society that allows the rule to happen.

[Witzig-Okashi]

Yes, there is such a thing as white privilege, but I don't think that it's applicable in this situation. If you want to get into the deeper picture of why so many blacks contrast to other races opt for athletics and the economic and sociocultural impact the resonates with it, that's a different conversation that the NBAPA cannot delve in anyway. Just because there is a truth, doesn't mean it's applicable in every situation. The fear that I have with labels is that at times when used too frequently it prevents critical thought and just labels something as a problem in order to achieve some covert agenda or for self-appeasement, and as a result, they really don't care as much about the problem as they should. Kierkegaard once said 'Once you label me, you negate me.' Though not exactly the same in context, labeling in order to make understanding something easier and not consider the situation enough is quite relevant.

This also applies about the 'chattel system' that you hear about the NCAA system to the NBA. There are several problems that I see with some of these statements other users place on the board prior to this point. They only take into account the two sports that earn the most revenue: Basketball and Football. The loopholes that are exploited for student-athletes are deplorable and insulting to college students who have to work their tails off to pay school out of pocket or those who rely on financial aid to the point that they are in debt. However, the lack of proper compensation that student-athletes receive (in particular the power conferences) are of definite concern and should be improved upon. The question is how far do you go? People show the revenue that the power conferences receive, but I've yet to see online posters on forums elaborate about where does the money go? Does it fund scholarships for its programs? For other school programs that might not receive as much revenue to support their programs? How much of it goes to fund building programs for the athletics program, or other departments of the university, if at all?

For as much complaining the NCAA receives in this matter, two things people don't consider are: The overwhelming majority of student-athletes don't go pro, and the majority of the universities in the NCAA don't earn nearly as much for their revenue as power conferences do in the sports in basketball and football. I don't even know how many consider the students actually supporting a school's athletics program, too. A few years ago, the university I attended (and will again in the fall) asked the students if they had wanted a 25 dollar student fee in order to raise money to build extra seating for the football stadium for its move up to the 1-A/FBS in 2014, and the vote was yes. Note the school has roughly 20,000 students, so do the math. The students (wittingly or unwittingly) support the athletic programs w/o considering the treatment the student-athletes get. I'm not saying that college athletes should get compensated, but how much, and to whom? Specifically those who earn the majority of the money, such as basketball and football? Do we have salaries that are even, or have salaries for based on performance/role? My fandom of watching college basektball is as obscure as watching Mountain West, A-10, CAA, Sun Belt and MVC conference games, and I'm sure the majority of those schools are prosperous as those Power conference school in basketball. It's a lot to consider, and I'm not sure how many people realize that...

Some people seem like these students have no other choice, and they do. They can go the Brandon Jennings route and play overseas for a time. If enough of the top tier players did it, do you think the NCAA would change its methods? That's truly making a statement. It's not any different when McDonald's was sued for not feeding healthy food to its customers in the previous decade. Did people have to eat there? No, they didn't. I'm just as responsible for my diet when I decide not to bring food to work and eat something unhealthy out of the vending machine. It's a perpetual motion of being the victim and not taking responsibility for your actions. What's worse is that this mires the picture for those who truly are victims and those who don't care to parse out the differences look them over because of labeling....

[ILOVEIT]

How about we toss out the race concept...just for a moment and ask the question:

Is it a good thing for the NBA AND the young athletes (predominantly black in basketball to NBA hopefuls) to put a rule in place that guides them to more education and maturity levels before being the vast majority that don't make the NBA?

Assuming that there is such a thing as the "black community" (lead by black leaders in this country etc), doesn't the black community want more opportunities to better educate young men????

One COULD argue that this time of rule SHOULD come from the black community. If the statistics are correct that one our of hundreds of NBA prospects don't make it...

It may be a simple view of the world, but damn it, lack of education in ANY race is a problem. Period. People who toss the race stuff into the mix to leverage an agenda are ciminal.

[old rem]

Baseball players can get drafted, but that doesn't necessarily mean they go right out and play for their teams. They spend a couple of years in the minors before they even touch an MLB stadium. And the NHL itself has debated to have the age limit at 20 themselves...

Using the Race Card doesn't work here...

While a player can be in the Baseball draft out of high school.. it does not remove his college eligibility. Barry Larkin, for example.. was drafted 3 times before he went pro. Many guys drafted from HS... spend 3...4..5 years in the minors. Some kids from the Domnican "go pro" at age 16 but don't make the majors till they are 26. The NBA... barely has "minor leage"... relative to baseball where every team OWNS a farm system...and everyone in it. In the NBA.. you have a big league deal..or not. College ball.. IS the NBA's "minor league" .

[ILOVEIT]

One thing needs to be made clear - the reason this is a racist policy is not necessarily because of the NBA itself. It clearly makes sense business wise for them and those black high schoolers are just going to be replaced by slightly older young black men.

What is racist is that the narrative that it's "good for the kids" is even still around. Every time there is an age limit thread here, there are still loads of people spouting some "BUT EDUCATION" bullcrap, even though David Stern himself doesn't do that. That's something that only ever happens when talking about young black kids. Nobody talks like that about white sports prodigies. I sure as hell don't remember anybody saying Bryce Harper needs to go to college.

It's a racist society that allows the rule to happen.

"Education bullcrap"...."good for the kids"

Sigh...it's frustrating. If my community had a dispportionate lack of representation of college graduates I would be more concerned about that than the language used. I would be ALLLLL for ANY rule that supported increased education....

I think getting stuck in labels and using race to leverage agendas at the cost of a broader "good/outcome" is almost criminal

[Striders]

I'm confused. Is the argument being made that NBA owners are racist against black people, so they are forcing blacks to go to college for a year in order to make them lose out on money they might have earned if they had gone straight to the pros?

I would love clarification on this as well.

[ChosunX]

One thing needs to be made clear - the reason this is a racist policy is not necessarily because of the NBA itself. It clearly makes sense business wise for them and those black high schoolers are just going to be replaced by slightly older young black men.

What is racist is that the narrative that it's "good for the kids" is even still around. Every time there is an age limit thread here, there are still loads of people spouting some "BUT EDUCATION" bullcrap, even though David Stern himself doesn't do that. That's something that only ever happens when talking about young black kids. Nobody talks like that about white sports prodigies. I sure as hell don't remember anybody saying Bryce Harper needs to go to college.

It's a racist society that allows the rule to happen.

"Education bullcrap"...."good for the kids"

Sigh...it's frustrating. If my community had a dispportionate lack of representation of college graduates I would be more concerned about that than the language used. I would be ALLLLL for ANY rule that supported increased education....

I think getting stuck in labels and using race to leverage agendas at the cost of a broader "good/outcome" is almost criminal

There are tons of jobs that historically never required advanced degrees and now employers are expecting it despite the fact the jobs had not changed that much.

[Shot Clock]

MLB and the NHL both have extensive farm team systems in place for players that aren't ready. If a draftee wants to enter early and they need work they are sent to a farm team. The NBA doesn't have this system and it would take a lot of negotiating with the union to get them to agree to the many conditions required. Can you imagine the NBAPA agreeing to two-way contracts like the NHL has that pays you different if they move you to a non-NBA 'farm' team?

No, the NBA wants guaranteed contracts and after three years many players are still a gamble. Yet they are going to get another multi year guaranteed contract.

[Johnlac1]

The more teenagers are allowed to enter this league, the less jobs will be available for seasoned veterans.

So allowing the young kids to come in without college is actually racist against all of the aging nba players who will be forced to retire early or go play abroad because all of the tanking teams want guys with young potential.

As this cycle continues, we will have more and more young athletes pushing out younger and younger mediocre vets. And since this lawyer has determined that this is racism only against the black athletes in the NBA (who can't get in young enough) this is also racism against older black athletes who are now getting booted too early.

I hate the word "racist". Not because of what it implies, but because in defending their own ideals, white people throw it around in the most patronizing and condescending ways, and every time a Black person uses it in 2015, eyes automatically begin to roll.

I say we retire the word "racist". I think we'd collectively get a lot further in these discussions by not using the word--it's become quite bastardized.

Hey, thanks for not being judgmental about white people.