Rust_Cohle wrote:Iwasawitness wrote:Rust_Cohle wrote:
You’re acting like lebron carried bums to a title. He colluded for a super team.
Jordan won an mvp and DPOY in the SAME year before the triangle. And you’re saying he’d be a “disaster” before the triangle? I get that you’re 12 and that all the advanced metrics favor MJ, but you don’t have the slightest clue as to what you’re talking about. Most lopsided final losses in history both belong to lebron.
Kyrie best scoring games were better than pippens. Same kyrie who hit the iconic shot in game 7, not lebron. Jordan never had a big man as dominant as AD.
But saying any iteration of Jordan would be a “disaster” is the most comical thing I have ever read on this forum. A disaster is 2011 lebron in the finals, that was a disaster.
Yeah and guess what? LeBron still had to carry those teams at times. 2012 he needed to have one of the all time greatest playoff performances just to beat Boston. He needed to have back to back outstanding games to beat San Antonio. By 2014 those very players he chose to team up with were averaging 15 PPG in the finals. Does that sound like an all time supporting cast to you?
I said Jordan would be a disaster playing alongside Irving. And he absolutely would. You are delusional if you think otherwise. Their play styles would clash horribly, Irving’s decision making would make Jordan smash someone’s car with a crowbar, and Irving’s inability to run an offense would mean that responsibility falls on Jordan… which is just something he could never do, at least not anywhere near the level LeBron could, hence why it worked with him. This isn’t a knock on Jordan. LeBron next to Pippen would be just as much of a disaster. Irving when he’s your second option and doesn’t need to do anything but score is a great supporting piece and Co star. But if he’s playing with Jordan, he’s going to have to be more than that and that’s just not who Irving is. That’s why Pippen was the perfect teammate for Jordan.
And no, you’re the one who doesn’t know what he’s talking about. The most lopsided finals losses belong to the teams LeBron played on. He is not the reason those losses were so lopsided. And if you think otherwise, you cannot be taken seriously as a poster.
Lebron wasn’t the biggest reason of those lopsided finals but absolutely a mark against him, considering Jordan’s final performances.
I do agree Jordan/irving would be a very awkward fit. And yes, Pippen was a perfect robin. But again, let’s not act like lebron didn’t have amazing teammates himself. Hell, if we did top 5 teammates for lebron and Jordan each, lebron would have the better teammates overall. Wade Ad and arguably Irving would be ahead of any MJ teammate outside of Pippen
Why? Why is that a knock against LeBron? Let’s talk the first one, I assume you’re referring to 2014, correct? How is this mark against him? You do understand what his averages were in that series, correct? You do understand what the +/- were for him, right? You do understand how bad the rest of his team was, right? And you do understand that Spurs team is not only considered the best team Duncan ever played on (a guy who won five titles mind you, so that’s a pretty big deal), but is considered by many to be a top fifteen team all time, if not top ten?
Your point about LeBron having a greater collection of teammates is irrelevant given that they were on different teams. And tbh, I don’t even know if I agree with your claim. I’m going to do this in real time, no edits, and just see what I come up with. Let’s see…
Okay so obviously Pippen is number one. He was a perfect fit next to Jordan, no one LeBron has fit him nearly as well. Next up would obviously be Wade.
Anthony Davis has way too many injury issues. If it wasn’t for that, he’d probably be above Wade. And if he played with LeBron in his prime… yeah, forget about it. Everything changes at that point. But that needs to be factored.
Anyways, Rodman comes up next. He’s very easily the worst offensive player, but his incredible defense and rebounding was perfect for the Bulls. He was dominant in 96, and was crucial in limiting Karl Malone in 97 and 98. Next up I would say is… Chris Bosh. Yeah, you’re probably puzzled by this one. But hear me out. Irving was a unit when it came to scoring but he did nothing else. Sure, when LeBron was out there this was perfect for him. But otherwise, Irving wasn’t able to do much when LeBron sat. Irving just didn’t have a positive impact on the game on his own. That made things tough.
The tie breaker was difficult. To me, it comes down to Irving and Grant. Grant doesn’t have a top five quality in any part of his game. But he makes up for it by providing tough, gritty big man play on both ends with really great defense, a tough rebounder, and he even had a jump shot. Perfect. That’s exactly what the Bulls needed. But Irving’s scoring is exactly what LeBron needed.
It’s tough… and you’ll probably be surprised by this, but number five in my opinion goes to Irving. Grant had a greater impact on winning in general, but Irving’s scoring was instrumental to LeBron’s greatest achievement, his 2016 championship.
So it goes Pippen, Wade, Rodman, Bosh, and Irving. I think you are underrating what Rodman and Grant brought to the table and you aren’t factoring in their roles and fit, only their overall talent. But regardless, I’m my eyes, I am at least agreeing with you that LeBron has more overall.
