FIBA WORLD CUP 2019 | SPAIN are new WORLD CHAMPIONS

Pachinko_ · Post #3801 » by **Pachinko_** » Tue Sep 17, 2019 2:40 am

An interesting question is what would European basketball look like if they had enough money to keep their players. By their players I mean those who grew up and learned basketball in Europe and then left for the NBA both because it's the best league, but also because they would make multiple amounts of money. A Euroleague with Giannis, Doncic, Jokic, Porzingis, Gasol, Rubio, Gobert etc would be much closer to the NBA, no?

Funny thing is, I don't think this would actually make the NBA much weaker, if at all. They have a giant talent pool, almost endless. More young players would get more opportunities on the big stage, they would develop better, and eventually fill the gap (my opinion anyway in a super theoretical scenario)

jason bourne · Post #3802 » by **jason bourne** » Tue Sep 17, 2019 2:58 am

Pachinko_ wrote:An interesting question is what would European basketball look like if they had enough money to keep their players. By their players I mean those who grew up and learned basketball in Europe and then left for the NBA both because it's the best league, but also because they would make multiple amounts of money. A Euroleague with Giannis, Doncic, Jokic, Porzingis, Gasol, Rubio, Gobert etc would be much closer to the NBA, no?

Funny thing is, I don't think this would actually make the NBA much weaker, if at all. They have a giant talent pool, almost endless. More young players would get more opportunities on the big stage, they would develop better, and eventually fill the gap (my opinion anyway in a super theoretical scenario)

Kobe was talking about the international game catching up to the NBA game in an interview. He said today's NBA players were saying we already saw them in the NBA. Kobe didn't think it was true and the international players were catching up. However, if you look at FIBA's all tournament team, it's all NBA players or former NBA players. Thus, it seems like the younger players were right. The best international players are in the NBA already.

Post #3803 » by **Nuntius** » Tue Sep 17, 2019 6:36 am

I am a bit surprised that Spain ended up winning it. I thought that they would be weaker this year since some key players were missing but I guess that it didn't matter. They didn't drop a single game so they did prove themselves to be the best team in this tournament. Congratulations to Spain.

Argentina also deserves congratulations for their performance. Not a lot of people expected them to go to the Finals but they did it and they eliminated two very strong teams (Serbia and France) along their way.

Australia also had a pretty good tournament. Reaching the semis is always good even when you miss out on your chance to win a medal.

The Czech Republic also had an amazing tournament. They had a very tough Second Round group with the US, Greece and Brazil and yet they pulled through and knocked Brazil and Greece out of the tournament. Heck, they even placed higher than the US, finishing 6th. They also played some beautiful basketball throughout the tourney which is the most important part. They deserve a lot of respect for their performance and I hope that this showing helps the growth of basketball in the Czech Republic. They definitely have the height to play the sport.

Poland also deserves congratulations for a good showing and finishing in the top 10.

Venezuela, Puerto Rico and the Dominican Republic also had a good showing as they advanced to the second round.

Nigeria, New Zealand and Tunisia didn't advance to the second round but they did finish the tournament with a 3-2 record.

Nigeria secured their spot in the Summer Olympics and so did Iran so I bet that both of them are content with that result.

All in all, it was a very fun tournament to watch even if my NT (Greece) didn't perform particularly well. We saw some pretty good basketball

burek3 · Post #3804 » by **burek3** » Tue Sep 17, 2019 7:08 am

Pfft, that's nothing. Slovenia went 9-0 in Eurobasket2017. Spain went only 8-0 in WC2019.

//Checkmate

:lol:

Bob8 · Post #3805 » by **Bob8** » Tue Sep 17, 2019 7:11 am

Pachinko_ wrote:An interesting question is what would European basketball look like if they had enough money to keep their players. By their players I mean those who grew up and learned basketball in Europe and then left for the NBA both because it's the best league, but also because they would make multiple amounts of money. A Euroleague with Giannis, Doncic, Jokic, Porzingis, Gasol, Rubio, Gobert etc would be much closer to the NBA, no?

Funny thing is, I don't think this would actually make the NBA much weaker, if at all. They have a giant talent pool, almost endless. More young players would get more opportunities on the big stage, they would develop better, and eventually fill the gap (my opinion anyway in a super theoretical scenario)

Problem that Euroleague has is that they’re not making any money for the clubs. On contrary, clubs are recording big loses. 1 year ago when Real has won it all, Euroleague and Acb, he recorded lost of 16 mio. If we know that their budget is 30 mio...Future of European basketball looks pretty black, only reason they are still alive are big football clubs, some crazy private owners and state controlled CSKA, who don’t care if they lose some money in basketball. The difference between Nba and Euroleague will only grow. All players going there, even though it would be probably better for their development, if they stayed in Europe. Look at Guduric, he’s a roll player in Europe, he has no business to be in Nba, but he still went there. And he’s just one of many, who are and will be only bench warmers in Nba in their prime years. Money rules.

TheBallsDeeper · Post #3806 » by **TheBallsDeeper** » Tue Sep 17, 2019 8:19 am

I've given it a few days to contemplate before I posted my thoughts. Here they are :

(1) Fantastic tournament, from the start it was wide open for the first time, it was never assumed that USA would win (even when they had lost in the past they were the hot favorite)

(2) I much prefer FIBA rules over NBA. I love defensive basketball, for me a high scoring game is not necessarily a good game. So actually calling offensive fouls, travel etc, no preference for stars, no defensive 3 seconds, made the games much more exciting. Except for the jump ball arrow - that has to be the worst rule in sport.

(3) Australia vs Spain was an amazing game. As an Australian I could list a dozen calls that cost us the game. Spanish supporters would have said the same if they lost. I think the refereeing for that game was appalling, but I don't think that it really favored either side - both teams got screwed, the result was fair. Australia had the chance and didn't close it out, Spain did.

(4) Andrew Bogut continues to prove that Basketball IQ and Regular IQ are not necessarily related. He is an idiot. For a great player he is an embarrassment. He should have been suspended from the bronze medal game.

(5) I always have liked Rubio, but his flopping during this tournament was terrible. I now can not stand him as a player, really really poor form. He is a very good player, and deserved the MVP, but his flopping was a disgrace.

(6) Marc Gasol is one of the greatest centers of all time. In an age when every commentator talks up players who can shoot from outside and ignore defense, Gasol has shown that a great defensive center wins championships and titles.

(7) Argentina, Turkey, France showed that teamwork and playing a role can have a bigger impact than sheer talent and athletism. Coaching really made a difference, as did longevity - the teams that had a group of players that really new each others games did better than the teams with the Stars.

(8) This tournament has set up an interesting Olympic games. With USA being the 8th best team in the world, do the American stars turn up for retribution, or do they avoid the Olympics to ensure they are not embarrassed with a loss? I suspect there will be a lot of talk behind the scenes with big-name players either committing together or pulling out to avoid being embarrassed again.

(9) If I was team USA I would reward the players that committed and run it back at the Olympics. Do what the Australian team did before RIo and use the All Star break as a bonding/training camp, and go for the gold medal with the players that gave up their time without fear of losing.

In summary - fantastic tournament, amazing, deserved winners, sets up a great Tokyo 2020.

minami · Post #3807 » by **minami** » Tue Sep 17, 2019 10:57 am

Great post, where even your dig at Rubio seems fair in the context of a well-reasoned analysis. Thanks!

I might comment on some of your points later, but overall I agree that Tokyo 2020 is setting up pretty nicely with several interesting narratives in the making.

By the way Australia has a great team and I had serious doubts we would make it before the game. You´ll have that bit of necessary luck at some point.

HeartBreakKid · Post #3808 » by **HeartBreakKid** » Tue Sep 17, 2019 11:07 am

TheBallsDeeper wrote:

(8) This tournament has set up interesting Olympic games. With USA being the 8th best team in the world, do the American stars turn up for retribution, or do they avoid the Olympics to ensure they are not embarrassed with a loss? I suspect there will be a lot of talk behind the scenes with big-name players either committing together or pulling out to avoid being embarrassed again.

(9) If I was team USA I would reward the players that committed and run it back at the Olympics. Do what the Australian team did before RIo and use the All Star break as a bonding/training camp, and go for the gold medal with the players that gave up their time without fear of losing.

In summary - fantastic tournament, amazing, deserved winners, sets up a great Tokyo 2020.

Of course American stars are going to play in the Olympics. Americans care about the Olympics more than FIBA. This is nothing really in that countrys, Americans have lost in FIBA before and never really cared - losing in the Olympics was more shameful, and superstars still joined after that. The average basketball fan doesn't even know what FIBA is in USA.

As for #9...no - they're not going to send the same team of guys who lost for their Olympic team.

Post #3809 » by **Nuntius** » Tue Sep 17, 2019 11:29 am

HeartBreakKid wrote:
TheBallsDeeper wrote:

(8) This tournament has set up interesting Olympic games. With USA being the 8th best team in the world, do the American stars turn up for retribution, or do they avoid the Olympics to ensure they are not embarrassed with a loss? I suspect there will be a lot of talk behind the scenes with big-name players either committing together or pulling out to avoid being embarrassed again.

(9) If I was team USA I would reward the players that committed and run it back at the Olympics. Do what the Australian team did before RIo and use the All Star break as a bonding/training camp, and go for the gold medal with the players that gave up their time without fear of losing.

In summary - fantastic tournament, amazing, deserved winners, sets up a great Tokyo 2020.

Of course American stars are going to play in the Olympics. Americans care about the Olympics more than FIBA. This is nothing really in that countrys, Americans have lost in FIBA before and never really cared - losing in the Olympics was more shameful, and superstars still joined after that. The average basketball fan doesn't even know what FIBA is in USA.

As for #9...no - they're not going to send the same team of guys who lost for their Olympic team.

I guess that this is why they don't realize that basketball in the Olympics is run by FIBA as well.

BUANIX · Post #3810 » by **BUANIX** » Tue Sep 17, 2019 7:17 pm

I am Spanish and I have 39 years old . The best league in Europe and then ,the second best league in the world is the Euroleague

But , the second best national league is the ACB

Where is the discussion ?

For us ( and I would said in Europe ) the day by day is the national league where our euroleague representatives also play. during the hole year and the playoffs. ( with much more games than in Europe)The euroleague even with some fixed equipments is still the target of the prizes for the job done at home. It is an international league and yes , the feeling is similar to the champions league ( tell me when Barcelona or madrid have not played in the champions , maybe last time was called European Cup and the Basket euroleague did not exist yet)

The ACB is the base of our basketball where 100% of our players develop , starting with m the youngsters teams . It is the league were most of the south American prospects try to make their way ( 21 years ago Luis Scola played in my team , GIJÓN Baloncesto with people like Lue roe , Tomas jofresa or Pep Cargol ... all of them legends of our basketball )

Without the ACB, the Greek league or the Italian the euroleague level would no be this one . And the national teams and the NBA would not be fed with so much talent and Mainly with so much basketball IQ

There should not be any discussion on this ...

Enviado desde mi iPhone utilizando Tapatalk

Bob8 · Post #3811 » by **Bob8** » Tue Sep 17, 2019 8:40 pm

BUANIX wrote:I am Spanish and I have 39 years old . The best league in Europe and then ,the second best league in the world is the Euroleague

But , the second best national league is the ACB

Where is the discussion ?

For us ( and I would said in Europe ) the day by day is the national league where our euroleague representatives also play. during the hole year and the playoffs. ( with much more games than in Europe)The euroleague even with some fixed equipments is still the target of the prizes for the job done at home. It is an international league and yes , the feeling is similar to the champions league ( tell me when Barcelona or madrid have not played in the champions , maybe last time was called European Cup and the Basket euroleague did not exist yet)

Enviado desde mi iPhone utilizando Tapatalk

Many more games in Acb???

Hugi Mancura · Post #3812 » by **Hugi Mancura** » Tue Sep 17, 2019 9:36 pm

jason bourne wrote:
Pachinko_ wrote:An interesting question is what would European basketball look like if they had enough money to keep their players. By their players I mean those who grew up and learned basketball in Europe and then left for the NBA both because it's the best league, but also because they would make multiple amounts of money. A Euroleague with Giannis, Doncic, Jokic, Porzingis, Gasol, Rubio, Gobert etc would be much closer to the NBA, no?

Funny thing is, I don't think this would actually make the NBA much weaker, if at all. They have a giant talent pool, almost endless. More young players would get more opportunities on the big stage, they would develop better, and eventually fill the gap (my opinion anyway in a super theoretical scenario)

Kobe was talking about the international game catching up to the NBA game in an interview. He said today's NBA players were saying we already saw them in the NBA. Kobe didn't think it was true and the international players were catching up. However, if you look at FIBA's all tournament team, it's all NBA players or former NBA players. Thus, it seems like the younger players were right. The best international players are in the NBA already.

Not denying that the best are there, but claim that NBA player is better than someone in Europe or some other top league is not true, If it has ever been true, but now it's less true than ever. Russia with zero NBA player had no problem with Nigeria with 3 NBA players. Team with 12 NBA players finished with seventh spot. Luis Scola, player who no-one in NBA wants anymore out played Jokic who got MVP votes this season.

On the question would moving those stars make NBA weaker. NBA is extremely star driven league, so losing stars would make it weaker. Sure there still would be people who will keep on scoring 20 points even if all those left. If all international players would move to Euroleague it would make it stronger, much stronger. Strong enough to beat top NBA teams? Yes, because there is enough international stars that they could easily fill those top5 teams in Europe and because there is no salary cap in Europe all those players could play in team or two.

Hugi Mancura · Post #3813 » by **Hugi Mancura** » Tue Sep 17, 2019 9:40 pm

HeartBreakKid wrote:
TheBallsDeeper wrote:

(8) This tournament has set up interesting Olympic games. With USA being the 8th best team in the world, do the American stars turn up for retribution, or do they avoid the Olympics to ensure they are not embarrassed with a loss? I suspect there will be a lot of talk behind the scenes with big-name players either committing together or pulling out to avoid being embarrassed again.

(9) If I was team USA I would reward the players that committed and run it back at the Olympics. Do what the Australian team did before RIo and use the All Star break as a bonding/training camp, and go for the gold medal with the players that gave up their time without fear of losing.

In summary - fantastic tournament, amazing, deserved winners, sets up a great Tokyo 2020.

Of course American stars are going to play in the Olympics. Americans care about the Olympics more than FIBA. This is nothing really in that countrys, Americans have lost in FIBA before and never really cared - losing in the Olympics was more shameful, and superstars still joined after that. The average basketball fan doesn't even know what FIBA is in USA.

As for #9...no - they're not going to send the same team of guys who lost for their Olympic team.

Sad for them, because Fiba World cup is tougher tournament than Olympics. I do know American's care more about Olympics, because it has history (other than in Basketball, but still).

Chuck Diesel · Post #3814 » by **Chuck Diesel** » Tue Sep 17, 2019 9:57 pm

How do people feel about Gabriel Deck as an NBA player?

Saberestar · Post #3815 » by **Saberestar** » Tue Sep 17, 2019 10:01 pm

Hugi Mancura wrote:
jason bourne wrote:
Pachinko_ wrote:An interesting question is what would European basketball look like if they had enough money to keep their players. By their players I mean those who grew up and learned basketball in Europe and then left for the NBA both because it's the best league, but also because they would make multiple amounts of money. A Euroleague with Giannis, Doncic, Jokic, Porzingis, Gasol, Rubio, Gobert etc would be much closer to the NBA, no?

Funny thing is, I don't think this would actually make the NBA much weaker, if at all. They have a giant talent pool, almost endless. More young players would get more opportunities on the big stage, they would develop better, and eventually fill the gap (my opinion anyway in a super theoretical scenario)

Kobe was talking about the international game catching up to the NBA game in an interview. He said today's NBA players were saying we already saw them in the NBA. Kobe didn't think it was true and the international players were catching up. However, if you look at FIBA's all tournament team, it's all NBA players or former NBA players. Thus, it seems like the younger players were right. The best international players are in the NBA already.

Not denying that the best are there, but claim that NBA player is better than someone in Europe or some other top league is not true, If it has ever been true, but now it's less true than ever. Russia with zero NBA player had no problem with Nigeria with 3 NBA players. Team with 12 NBA players finished with seventh spot. Luis Scola, player who no-one in NBA wants anymore out played Jokic who got MVP votes this season.

On the question would moving those stars make NBA weaker. NBA is extremely star driven league, so losing stars would make it weaker. Sure there still would be people who will keep on scoring 20 points even if all those left. If all international players would move to Euroleague it would make it stronger, much stronger. Strong enough to beat top NBA teams? Yes, because there is enough international stars that they could easily fill those top5 teams in Europe and because there is no salary cap in Europe all those players could play in team or two.

It is that difficult to understand that is not the same to play a full NBA season with 82 games (48 minutes games) and probably playoffs than a short tournament with just 8 games (40 minutes games)??

A veteran good player can give it all for a few games, but he can not mantain a high level long-term. Recovery is tough. It is just that.

Saberestar · Post #3816 » by **Saberestar** » Tue Sep 17, 2019 10:11 pm

Chuck Diesel wrote:How do people feel about Gabriel Deck as an NBA player?

I like him. He plays hard, he can defend multiple positions and he is skilled enough.

I think he can play a role as an energy guy coming from the bench. He can play some SF and PF, so he would find minutes.

Chuck Diesel · Post #3817 » by **Chuck Diesel** » Tue Sep 17, 2019 11:38 pm

By the way, international fans missed ESPN’s bizarre middle of the night broadcasts of the games from their studio in Connecticut. Calling the games alongside Tom Thibodeau was a dude named John Brickley, who in addition to mispronouncing 85% of the player’s names declared that France beat “YugoSLAVA” in the 2014 Bronze medal game. Truly remarkable to **** up the name of a country that hadn’t existed for 22 years in a game that never happened.

Edit: Forgot the Serbs and Montenegrins went on using “Yugoslavia” after 1992. But still...

Pachinko_ · Post #3818 » by **Pachinko_** » Wed Sep 18, 2019 12:05 am

Chuck Diesel wrote:By the way, international fans missed ESPN’s bizarre middle of the night broadcasts of the games from their studio in Connecticut. Calling the games alongside Tom Thibodeau was a dude named John Brickley, who in addition to mispronouncing 85% of the player’s names declared that France beat “YugoSLAVA” in 2014 Bronze medal game. Truly remarkable to **** up the name of a country that hadn’t existed for 22 years in a game that never happened.

I used to be annoyed by Americans not making a better effort with those things, but in the end I decided is just unfair to expect of them the same as the average European. In Europe people regularly cross borders physically and mentally and are expected to make an effort with other peoples' language, culture and history. You need to do it for both work and pleasure. In America you just don't, so people generally don't... it is what it is.

Chuck Diesel · Post #3819 » by **Chuck Diesel** » Wed Sep 18, 2019 12:07 am

Pachinko_ wrote:
Chuck Diesel wrote:By the way, international fans missed ESPN’s bizarre middle of the night broadcasts of the games from their studio in Connecticut. Calling the games alongside Tom Thibodeau was a dude named John Brickley, who in addition to mispronouncing 85% of the player’s names declared that France beat “YugoSLAVA” in 2014 Bronze medal game. Truly remarkable to **** up the name of a country that hadn’t existed for 22 years in a game that never happened.

I used to be annoyed by Americans not making a better effort with those things, but in the end I decided is just unfair to expect of them the same as the average European. In Europe people regularly cross borders physically and mentally and are expected to make an effort with other peoples' language, culture and history. You need to do it for both work and pleasure. In America you just don't, so people generally don't... it is what it is.

I mean I’m American and find it embarrassing. Don’t think it’s limited to just us though. Met plenty of Europeans who’ve never been/have no interest in visiting/know very little about the country that borders them two hours away.

Pachinko_ · Post #3820 » by **Pachinko_** » Wed Sep 18, 2019 12:16 am

Chuck Diesel wrote:I mean I’m American and find it embarrassing. Don’t think it’s limited to just us though. Met plenty of Europeans who’ve never been/have no interest in visiting the country that borders them two hours away.

True, I shouldnt be generalising, I guess I mean more on average. I've also met Americans who are very interested and educated about other countries even though they didn't really need to be. Same in Australia.

That guy specifically on ESPN it's his job, so you'd expect something better. Then again media only really care about the majority of their audience, if it doesn't cause a problem with them then it's not a problem I guess.