How long will it take for John Wall to become the best PG?

[dn0774]

Great pg's are overrated anyways. When is the last time a top 3 pg won the championship? Isaiah?

[Dr Genius]

Great pg's are overrated anyways. When is the last time a top 3 pg won the championship? Isaiah?

Magic Johnson won five championships.

If there isn't a Michael Jordan, guys like Stockton and Kevin Johnson will have at least 1 or 2 rings.

[redshortz]

about as long as it took Lebron to win his first ring...

[dn0774]

Great pg's are overrated anyways. When is the last time a top 3 pg won the championship? Isaiah?

Magic Johnson won five championships.

If there isn't a Michael Jordan, guys like Stockton and Kevin Johnson will have at least 1 or 2 rings.

Soooo....Isaiah? 20 years ago?

[DaeDae]

Great pg's are overrated anyways. When is the last time a top 3 pgwon the championship? Isaiah?

Magic Johnson won five championships.

If there isn't a Michael Jordan, guys like Stockton and Kevin Johnson will have at least 1 or 2 rings.

Soooo....Isaiah? 20 years ago?

How many rings does tony parker have again? He won at least three of them as one of the top 3 pgs in the league at the time. That was just this past decade.

[TDevilsG]

Wall will only be as good as the team that surrounds him. Few people seem to keep in mind that the Point Guard position benefits the most from competent teammates surrounding him.

[rockymac52]

Let's see...

Gilbert Arenas - check
Andray Blatche - check
Josh Howard - if healthy, check
JaVale McGee - on offense, check (let's call him Wall's Tyson Chandler to Chris Paul)

Offensively, he's surrounded by skilled players. It'd be better if Howard could shoot the long ball better to spread the floor, but it's not the end of the world. And hate on Arenas all you want, I don't want the "is Arenas good?" debate to hijack this thread, but at the end of the day, he's clearly a great offensive player.

[Jvaughn]

Chris Paul and Deron Williams are respectively, only 25 and 26 years old. They are both, at the moment, the two best PG's in the league and until John Wall actually plays a game, there's no point arguing about it.

Wall might have all the potential in the world, but lets face it; for a majority of his career, he'll be playing against some of the best all time PG in an era that's pretty much saturated with star level guards.

And he'll be able to hold his own against every PG mentioned in this thread. I don't care how old Paul and Williams are. After their first 3 seasons it was clear they were among the best PG in the league. Some were claiming they were the best.

CP3 needs to stay healthy. He has had some injury free seasons but it is something to be concerned about. Just saying.

How can you say that? He hasn't played an NBA game yet. He played well in summer league, but so did Kwame Brown. Until this guy actually plays a full season it's no point in arguing it. He's up against CP3, D-Wil, Rose, Rondo, and Nash right now. It's going to take him at least 3 seasons at best to even be put in the conversation as one of the best. To say he has the potential to one day be in the conversation is one thing. Sure he might. But numerous players never reach their supposed potential.

[rockymac52]

PS I am really going to enjoy the Rose/Wall debates for the next 10 years.

I've really grown to hate the Bulls fans who pour into any thread about Wall to mention that he is a rookie and hasn't played a minute in the NBA yet, so therefor he isn't allowed to be better than Rose yet. Like they weren't doing the exact same thing two years ago, right? And hell, if I was a Bulls fan, I'd be threatened and mad too if we could no longer claim to have the elite PG of the future on our squad. Enjoy it while you can Bulls fans (even though Rose is still clearly a damn good PG regardless of how well Wall does).

[DaeDae]

Doesn't matter. Those players are not elite. And gil is not a guy that plays off of other guys. Other guys play off of him.

[rockymac52]

Doesn't matter. Those players are not elite. And gil is not a guy that plays off of other guys. Other guys play off of him.

I really don't want to get into this, because it's been debated at length in several threads, and it always frustrates me and other informed Wizards fans, but long story short, Arenas has been a far better player in his career while playing off the ball alongside ball-dominant guards such as Antonio Daniels, Larry Hughes, and Earl Boykins. Even if you think Arenas can't handle not being the #1 option (although he'll most likely still lead the team in PPG), or if you think he's not a good spot up shooter, it's foolish to say he can't play off the ball, because he's done it for a large amount of his career.

[dn0774]

Magic Johnson won five championships.

If there isn't a Michael Jordan, guys like Stockton and Kevin Johnson will have at least 1 or 2 rings.

Soooo....Isaiah? 20 years ago?

How many rings does tony parker have again? He won at least three of them as one of the top 3 pgs in the league at the time. That was just this past decade.

The only championship year it could be argued that Parker was top 3 was '07...i'd take Nash and Paul over him for sure, probably Deron as well...hell, Billups and Kidd were still up there as well as Baron Davis.

[rockymac52]

And you're right, they're not elite, but who said a point guard can only be good if they're surrounded by elite talent?

I'm not trying to argue that the Wizards are title contenders or anything close to that, I was just responding to the guy who said that Wall will only be as good as the talent that surrounds him.

Other allstar level PGs have succeeded in the past with far less talent than Wall currently has (INCLUDING DERRICK ROSE). And the whole idea behind having a great PG is that they are the ones who are supposed to get their teammates involved and make their teammates better (see Steve Nash). So ideally Wall will make his teammates better. We'll see.

[Jvaughn]

PS I am really going to enjoy the Rose/Wall debates for the next 10 years.

I've really grown to hate the Bulls fans who pour into any thread about Wall to mention that he is a rookie and hasn't played a minute in the NBA yet, so therefor he isn't allowed to be better than Rose yet. Like they weren't doing the exact same thing two years ago, right? And hell, if I was a Bulls fan, I'd be threatened and mad too if we could no longer claim to have the elite PG of the future on our squad. Enjoy it while you can Bulls fans (even though Rose is still clearly a damn good PG regardless of how well Wall does).

Most of us Bulls fans haven't even said anything about Rose. The ones that did were responding to the fact that someone said Wall was clearly faster and stronger than Wall. And there may have been a small handful of fans that said Rose was in the best PG discussion 2 years ago. And those were either from idiots or people being sarcastic. Rose hadn't even entered the discussion of best PG's (not the best) until this past season. No one is threatened. We're not Lebron. We want to see the battle (if it happens) against Rose and Wall too.

[methdefense]

I think he has chance to be one of the top pg in league, but clearly he has to outperform others to be considered the best.

[DaeDae]

PS I am really going to enjoy the Rose/Wall debates for the next 10 years.

I've really grown to hate the Bulls fans who pour into any thread about Wall to mention that he is a rookie and hasn't played a minute in the NBA yet, so therefor he isn't allowed to be better than Rose yet. Like they weren't doing the exact same thing two years ago, right? And hell, if I was a Bulls fan, I'd be threatened and mad too if we could no longer claim to have the elite PG of the future on our squad. Enjoy it while you can Bulls fans (even though Rose is still clearly a damn good PG regardless of how well Wall does).

a) it isn't only bulls fans saying these things about wall.....so stop it. There are quite a few names in this thread, stating as such who I don't recognize as regulars on the bulls board.

b) I challenge you to produce more than 3 homerriffic posters from the bulls board, who claimed anything CLOSE to some of the claims being made about wall before rose played a single NBA game. Most of us thought he was 2 years away from being even an average pg.....that is...he was a project who wouldn't immediately develop. My expectations weren't as low as most, but even I was surprised at how quickly he developed.

seriouly...stop with the whole "Bulls fans" stuff....

[rockymac52]

And no one's really saying that Wall is already the best, or in the discussion for the best. He's a guy who was a concensus #1 overall pick even before he played in college. Wizards fans have the right to expect him to be in the discussion for the best PG in the NBA in the next 3 years or so.

But there is a very good chance that he's already a top 10 PG in the league, and from what we've seen, it's not out of the question that he can be top 5 this year. I know there's plenty of top notch PGs in the NBA who people will gladly list that are established and/or young, and damn good in their own right, but by the end of the year, it wouldn't shock me if Wall was in the mix. I honestly expect him to top 5 in assists, and among those 5 he'll probably score similar amounts if not more, along with solid steals stats. Obviously those are just three basic stats, and stats aren't everything, and he'll also likely have the most turnovers of those guys, but it's a start. But hey, I'm a Wizards fan, and I'm not afraid to admit that I'm being very optimistic and expecting the best from him.

[TDevilsG]

And you're right, they're not elite, but who said a point guard can only be good if they're surrounded by elite talent?

I'm not trying to argue that the Wizards are title contenders or anything close to that, I was just responding to the guy who said that Wall will only be as good as the talent that surrounds him.

Other allstar level PGs have succeeded in the past with far less talent than Wall currently has (INCLUDING DERRICK ROSE). And the whole idea behind having a great PG is that they are the ones who are supposed to get their teammates involved and make their teammates better (see Steve Nash). So ideally Wall will make his teammates better. We'll see.

You can press the quote button, you know. It's actually pretty easy.

The point I was trying to convey was that the point guard position probably directly benefits the most from decent players surrounding him. Not elite players, as was mentioned, but decent players who could finish. Most of us would claim that the most important stat for a point guard is his assists ratio. The amount of assists he racks up will be based upon who can finish around him. Rose actually has decent talent surrounding him; not "elite" talent, but good enough talent. They aren't contenders by any stretch of the imagination (If my Nets could beat them last year, they probably weren't very good) with the lineup they have, but they're not awful either. Somewhere near average with this current lineup.

I agree; the Point Guard position is supposed to make his teammates better. You could list a whole other bunch of names besides Steve Nash for point guards who have made their teammates better. But Steve Nash has also had pretty good talent surrounding him throughout the past five years. Definitely underrated talent. You don't get to the Western Conference Finals without having a halfway competent overall team.

Someone earlier had mentioned that people didn't talk about Rondo three years ago, and look at how much he has evolved as a player. Rondo wouldn't be half the talent he was if he wasn't surrounded by Garnett, Pierce and Ray Allen. In fact, Rondo might very well be completely irrelevant now if he wasn't with such a stacked team that could finish. Rondo makes Boston annual contenders as much as Boston makes Rondo a worthwhile point guard.

[rockymac52]

PS I am really going to enjoy the Rose/Wall debates for the next 10 years.

I've really grown to hate the Bulls fans who pour into any thread about Wall to mention that he is a rookie and hasn't played a minute in the NBA yet, so therefor he isn't allowed to be better than Rose yet. Like they weren't doing the exact same thing two years ago, right? And hell, if I was a Bulls fan, I'd be threatened and mad too if we could no longer claim to have the elite PG of the future on our squad. Enjoy it while you can Bulls fans (even though Rose is still clearly a damn good PG regardless of how well Wall does).

a) it isn't only bulls fans saying these things about wall.....so stop it. There are quite a few names in this thread, stating as such who I don't recognize as regulars on the bulls board.

b) I challenge you to produce more than 3 homerriffic posters from the bulls board, who claimed anything CLOSE to some of the claims being made about wall before rose played a single NBA game. Most of us thought he was 2 years away from being even an average pg.....that is...he was a project who wouldn't immediately develop. My expectations weren't as low as most, but even I was surprised at how quickly he developed.

seriouly...stop with the whole "Bulls fans" stuff....

I'm not going to go wading through old posts to prove my point, but because I obviously have an interest in Wall, I tend to seek out threads he's involved in. And I've seen several over the last month that turn into Wall vs. Rose debates. I can't say for certain if everyone on Rose's side are Bulls fans, just like I can't say everyone on Wall's side are Wizards fans. I've just realized that people get very defensive about Rose whenever someone tries to knock him, even just a little bit, and those same people are the first to knock Wall given the opportunity. It's not something I've seen just in this thread, and my initial post was more based on past exchanges.

[rockymac52]

And you're right, they're not elite, but who said a point guard can only be good if they're surrounded by elite talent?

I'm not trying to argue that the Wizards are title contenders or anything close to that, I was just responding to the guy who said that Wall will only be as good as the talent that surrounds him.

Other allstar level PGs have succeeded in the past with far less talent than Wall currently has (INCLUDING DERRICK ROSE). And the whole idea behind having a great PG is that they are the ones who are supposed to get their teammates involved and make their teammates better (see Steve Nash). So ideally Wall will make his teammates better. We'll see.

You can press the quote button, you know. It's actually pretty easy.

The point I was trying to convey was that the point guard position probably directly benefits the most from decent players surrounding him. Not elite players, as was mentioned, but decent players who could finish. Most of us would claim that the most important stat for a point guard is his assists ratio. The amount of assists he racks up will be based upon who can finish around him. Rose actually has decent talent surrounding him; not "elite" talent, but good enough talent. They aren't contenders by any stretch of the imagination (If my Nets could beat them last year, they probably weren't very good) with the lineup they have, but they're not awful either. Somewhere near average with this current lineup.

I agree; the Point Guard position is supposed to make his teammates better. You could list a whole other bunch of names besides Steve Nash for point guards who have made their teammates better. But Steve Nash has also had pretty good talent surrounding him throughout the past five years. Definitely underrated talent. You don't get to the Western Conference Finals without having a halfway competent overall team.

I agree, and I'm not trying to say that Nash was playing with scrubs who he magically turned into stars or good role players. I simply used Nash as an example because he was the first person who popped into my mind when the topic of PGs who make their teammates better was raised.

After the FA signings this year, Rose has a much better squad around him. Last year he didn't really have that much all things considered. I'm saying that Wall's teammates right now offer more talent than say what Rose had last year. Not saying the Wizards are going to perform better in the Ws and Ls columns, but that's a completely different debate.