Will too much muscle mess up your skills?

[uno]

Dwight can't be skilled because he doesn't care enough to work on his game...he thinks his jumping and bullying ways to dunk is going to work for him forever

[wilhelmthe1st]

Oh, and someone mentioned Broly's Legendary SSJ form. That's basically just USSJ but without losing any speed and LSSJ is obviously stronger than Full Power SSJ, soooo...

[ManualRam]

This is why i think LeBron james will never be as skilled than Carmelo Anthony.

I don't know think Melo's necessarily a more skilled player than LeBron. Their skills are just different. Melo is more suited to play in a halfcourt set. He's more skilled on the post and in triple threat situations. He's a better shooter. But on the flip side, LeBron is a much better ballhandler. He's a much better passer and a much better playmaker. He's also a superior defender, both on-the-ball and off. But if the question is: "Is Melo more skilled at his position than LeBron?" Then, the answer would be yes because even though LeBron plays SF, he's really more of a PG/SG in the traditional sense.

lebron's not a great ball-handler. he just handles the ball a lot. rarely will you ever see him cross someone up or ball off any slick ball-handling move to get his defender leaning.
melo's got a better crossover and spin move. melo is the more skilled offensive player when it comes to scoring.

[Iman Shumpert]

This is why i think LeBron james will never be as skilled than Carmelo Anthony.

I don't know think Melo's necessarily a more skilled player than LeBron. Their skills are just different. Melo is more suited to play in a halfcourt set. He's more skilled on the post and in triple threat situations. He's a better shooter. But on the flip side, LeBron is a much better ballhandler. He's a much better passer and a much better playmaker. He's also a superior defender, both on-the-ball and off. But if the question is: "Is Melo more skilled at his position than LeBron?" Then, the answer would be yes because even though LeBron plays SF, he's really more of a PG/SG in the traditional sense.

lebron's not a great ball-handler. he just handles the ball a lot. rarely will you ever see him cross someone up or ball off any slick ball-handling move to get his defender leaning.
melo's got a better crossover and spin move. melo is the more skilled offensive player when it comes to scoring.

I hate it when discussing ballhandling people somehow think fancy tricks make you a better ballhandler. Jordan almost never used any type of fancy tricks. But he was a great ballhandler. The idea is to get to the spots you want to get to using as few moves as possible. Melo has better footwork, but he definitely does not have better handles. I judge ballhandling ability based on ball control. I compare a players' speed with and without the ball. If there's a sizable difference between your speed with the ball and speed without it, I think it's clear you don't have great ball control. LeBron at his size and with his speed has great control of the ball. It takes a lot of skill to maintain control of the ball and running as fast as LeBron. I think you're confusing footwork with ballhandling. Melo does have superior footwork in the halfcourt. That's undeniable.

[ManualRam]

Dwight can't be skilled because he doesn't care enough to work on his game...he thinks his jumping and bullying ways to dunk is going to work for him forever

dwight's improved his post game tremendously. he just cant maximize it right now because his jump shot is broke, but he is still a good post player. which goes back to the original question, would dwight be a better shooter if he wasnt so muscular and strong? imo, yes. he's so muscle bound and strong that he has to short arm his jumpshot/ FT to get any sort of touch on it.

[Visceral]

Oh, and someone mentioned Broly's Legendary SSJ form. That's basically just USSJ but without losing any speed and LSSJ is obviously stronger than Full Power SSJ, soooo...

Yeah but USSJ is weaker than MSSJ (full power SSJ)

[ManualRam]

I don't know think Melo's necessarily a more skilled player than LeBron. Their skills are just different. Melo is more suited to play in a halfcourt set. He's more skilled on the post and in triple threat situations. He's a better shooter. But on the flip side, LeBron is a much better ballhandler. He's a much better passer and a much better playmaker. He's also a superior defender, both on-the-ball and off. But if the question is: "Is Melo more skilled at his position than LeBron?" Then, the answer would be yes because even though LeBron plays SF, he's really more of a PG/SG in the traditional sense.

lebron's not a great ball-handler. he just handles the ball a lot. rarely will you ever see him cross someone up or ball off any slick ball-handling move to get his defender leaning.
melo's got a better crossover and spin move. melo is the more skilled offensive player when it comes to scoring.

I hate it when discussing ballhandling people somehow think fancy tricks make you a better ballhandler. Jordan almost never used any type of fancy tricks. But he was a great ballhandler. Melo has better footwork, but he definitely does not have better handles. I judge ballhandling ability based on ball control. I compare a players' speed with and without the ball. If there's a sizable difference between your speed with the ball and speed without it, I think it's clear you don't have great ball control. LeBron at his size and with his speed has great control of the ball. It takes a lot of skill to maintain control of the ball and running as fast as LeBron. I think you're confusing footwork with ballhandling. Melo does have superior footwork in the halfcourt. That's undeniable.

those tricks are a PART of ball-handling though. it's not about fancy tricks it's about versatility with the ball in your hands. its good to be able to control the ball with a strong handle and get from point A to point B, but being able to create an advantage vs a defender via ball-handling/deception is also a plus.
leandro barbosa can dribble the ball down the court at full speed and he's one of the fastest players in the league, does that put him on par with steve nash in terms of ball handling skill?
no.

lebron likes to handle the ball. he handles the ball a lot. he can protect the ball because he's a massive human being and defenders dont want to play him close because of the threat of the blow by, but in the half court, all he is in terms of scoring is a straight line driver with a step back jumper.
it doesnt take a whole lot of ball-handling skill to do that.
good for his size? yes, but i wouldnt consider it diverse or "great" by any means.

[Apollo64]

I think Artest and Iguodala are also good examples of this, too much muscle messed up their offensive games.

[RojanRando]

Oh, and someone mentioned Broly's Legendary SSJ form. That's basically just USSJ but without losing any speed and LSSJ is obviously stronger than Full Power SSJ, soooo...

Yeah but USSJ is weaker than MSSJ (full power SSJ)

Yea comparing Broly's power to any of the SSJ 1 stages is pointless because he's stronger than them all. If you watched the movie they basically just did an asspull at the end to beat him.

[stacey_is_king]

GOAT topic?

[wilhelmthe1st]

Oh, and someone mentioned Broly's Legendary SSJ form. That's basically just USSJ but without losing any speed and LSSJ is obviously stronger than Full Power SSJ, soooo...

Yeah but USSJ is weaker than MSSJ (full power SSJ)

Yea comparing Broly's power to any of the SSJ 1 stages is pointless because he's stronger than them all. If you watched the movie they basically just did an asspull at the end to beat him.

Weaker in what way? It's slower than Full Power SSJ, considerably. But in pure power output, it's at least (being generous) on the same level as Full Power SSJ, if not (yes) more powerful. Goku even said so when he achieved it in the HBTC. He said the power of the form is useless, since the bulky muscles make it difficult to move, and said "what use is all this power if I can't even hit my opponent." He developed the full power SSJ as a means of conserving energy, since before that going into any SSJ form took so much effort and drained energy, USSJ even more so. Full Power SSJ is just Goku and Gohan training their bodies and minds to consider SSJ their 'natural' state, which means they don't have to put so much effort and lose all that energy to enter and sustain the form, thus giving them more access to their power and able to focus it differently. Goku in his 'full power SSJ' form can power up further and enter USSJ and he would be stronger, but he'd lose speed.

And yeah, Broly's a joke. Half the movies are.

[GameOver25]

IMO lifting weights affect shooting for the most part.

[disoblige]

What the **** are you two talking about.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JcJT4gaMhrk&feature=related[/youtube]

[Kabookalu]

GOAT topic?

+1

I decided to rewatch some of the Cell saga episodes.

[RojanRando]

GOAT topic?

+1

I decided to rewatch some of the Cell saga episodes.

The lockout is turning us all into crazy people.

[disoblige]

Weaker in what way? It's slower than Full Power SSJ, considerably. But in pure power output, it's at least (being generous) on the same level as Full Power SSJ, if not (yes) more powerful. Goku even said so when he achieved it in the HBTC. He said the power of the form is useless, since the bulky muscles make it difficult to move, and said "what use is all this power if I can't even hit my opponent." He developed the full power SSJ as a means of conserving energy, since before that going into any SSJ form took so much effort and drained energy, USSJ even more so. Full Power SSJ is just Goku and Gohan training their bodies and minds to consider SSJ their 'natural' state, which means they don't have to put so much effort and lose all that energy to enter and sustain the form, thus giving them more access to their power and able to focus it differently. Goku in his 'full power SSJ' form can power up further and enter USSJ and he would be stronger, but he'd lose speed.

And yeah, Broly's a joke. Half the movies are.

Why didnt they just psi blast their enemies at ussj form.

[RojanRando]

Weaker in what way? It's slower than Full Power SSJ, considerably. But in pure power output, it's at least (being generous) on the same level as Full Power SSJ, if not (yes) more powerful. Goku even said so when he achieved it in the HBTC. He said the power of the form is useless, since the bulky muscles make it difficult to move, and said "what use is all this power if I can't even hit my opponent." He developed the full power SSJ as a means of conserving energy, since before that going into any SSJ form took so much effort and drained energy, USSJ even more so. Full Power SSJ is just Goku and Gohan training their bodies and minds to consider SSJ their 'natural' state, which means they don't have to put so much effort and lose all that energy to enter and sustain the form, thus giving them more access to their power and able to focus it differently. Goku in his 'full power SSJ' form can power up further and enter USSJ and he would be stronger, but he'd lose speed.

And yeah, Broly's a joke. Half the movies are.

Why didnt they just psi blast their enemies at ussj form.

Because they wouldn't be able to hit them.

[junot111]

yeah it will thats why goku didnt want to fight in the ascended ssj form, instead he mastered his regular weight on ssj1 so he could have power and speed. duh

No he didn't want to fight in ascended ssj form because it was too weak to beat Perfect Cell with. Thats why he went past ascended and ultra ssj and became a full power ssj. The form balances power and speed not his own training. GOD

What the **** are you two talking about.

how do you NOT know what they're talking about

[disoblige]

Because they wouldn't be able to hit them.

Also Goku had instant transmission. It's not like he needed the speed.

[gino_giode]

yeah it will thats why goku didnt want to fight in the ascended ssj form, instead he mastered his regular weight on ssj1 so he could have power and speed. duh

No he didn't want to fight in ascended ssj form because it was too weak to beat Perfect Cell with. Thats why he went past ascended and ultra ssj and became a full power ssj. The form balances power and speed not his own training. GOD

I'll stop you guys there.

Ascended SSJ form is BS made up by Trunks/Vegeta. It's just forefully jacking yourself up in SSJ form. Their physical strength was higher but their speed suffered massively. It's like going to the gym and pumping iron for 2 hrs and coming out all huge and intense for the brief period after.

Goku wanted himself and Gohan to master SSJ mode (by being able to stay in that mode w/o expending energy) so that they didn't have to exert themselves to transform and obviously have better energy management.

Goku never went ascended or ultra, he was just on the cusp of SSJ2. And the only reason Goku could even hang with Cell was because Cell wanted a fair fight and purposely lowered his own power.

And yes, more muscle mass can inhibit your skills. You have less range of motion, more weight bearing on your legs, and larger muscles usually are slow twitch and fatigue easily