Dolan/MSG losing corporate sponsors to Rox over Linsanity

[Manhattan Project]

Thats too bad Dolan should've matched, you gotta spend money to make money, a billionaire like him should've known that

Jimmy Dolan didn't make his billion. His father Charles Dolan made the billion with Cablevision and then bought his boy a sports team to play with as a reward for cleaning up his act and rehabbing. Jimmy Dolan is a billionaire because he was born one, not because he knows how to make money. It's unfortunate for Knicks fans that the toy Charles bought for his little boy to play with was MSG.

He just bought the forum and plans to renovate it. If there's one thing that he loves it's the entertainment aspect of business. As far as sports though, hell it's bad when he got coaches telling him to shut the hell up.

[He Filled it Up]

wealthy people don't go broke.

That's true. Batman did get to keep his house.

We have a winner.

But honestly, I think that the Knicks believe that Lin's contract would make them less competitive in the future. I don't know their cap situation, but if they amnesty Amare wouldn't they be able to add a max/near max contract in a year or two?

If that's the case then they made a smart basketball decision. If not, then I have no idea why they didn't match but it wouldn't be financially motivated (obviously).

[BlueDawn]

wealthy people don't go broke.

That's true. Batman did get to keep his house.

Spoilers man.

[TheToothFairy]

wealthy people don't go broke.

That's true. Batman did get to keep his house.

We have a winner.

But honestly, I think that the Knicks believe that Lin's contract would make them less competitive in the future. I don't know their cap situation, but if they amnesty Amare wouldn't they be able to add a max/near max contract in a year or two?

If that's the case then they made a smart basketball decision. If not, then I have no idea why they didn't match but it wouldn't be financially motivated (obviously).

Knicks were already over the cap

Not signing Lin was personal by Dolan

[NBA Fan 1234]

That's true. Batman did get to keep his house.

We have a winner.

But honestly, I think that the Knicks believe that Lin's contract would make them less competitive in the future. I don't know their cap situation, but if they amnesty Amare wouldn't they be able to add a max/near max contract in a year or two?

If that's the case then they made a smart basketball decision. If not, then I have no idea why they didn't match but it wouldn't be financially motivated (obviously).

Knicks were already over the cap

Not signing Lin was personal by Dolan

Not certain, but it probably played its role...what is certain is that a) we would not have been able to amnesty Amar'e (@Sofa King -- we already used it on Billups) and b) there would have been a pretty big lux tax fine.

[spaceballer]

We have a winner.

But honestly, I think that the Knicks believe that Lin's contract would make them less competitive in the future. I don't know their cap situation, but if they amnesty Amare wouldn't they be able to add a max/near max contract in a year or two?

If that's the case then they made a smart basketball decision. If not, then I have no idea why they didn't match but it wouldn't be financially motivated (obviously).

Knicks were already over the cap

Not signing Lin was personal by Dolan

Not certain, but it probably played its role...what is certain is that a) we would not have been able to amnesty Amar'e (@Sofa King -- we already used it on Billups) and b) there would have been a pretty big lux tax fine.

The lux tax issue is overstated. The ESPN six part article fails to consider the stretch provision.

The killer year is the third year. And, as Larry Coons mentions, if Lin turns out to be a bust, you can simply waive him and then use the stretch provision to mitigate the tax burden. If Lin works out, you can either trade him or another high salary player to a team under the cap (and thus able to absorb big contracts without regard for matching salaries) for a pick or two, possibly in combination with expiring and/or waivable non-guaranteed contracts.

So whether Lin works out or not, the lux tax would still be quite manageable for the Knicks.

This was personal pique on Dolan's part with his twisted notions of "loyalty"/cronyism and office politics between the various factions in the FO and/or teammates or CAA.

The truth will be easily seen in next off-season. Just watch whether the Knicks spend their MLE or give JR a big contract. If they continue to use their MLEs to add more salary in the next three years, or give JR a big contract, then you know the lux tax excuse for not keeping Lin was just an excuse.

[SpeedyWindRose]

Still baffled by the whole Knicks not matching Lin thing. Not only did it make basketball sense, but a whole lot of financial sense as well.

[East_Coast]

Still baffled by the whole Knicks not matching Lin thing. Not only did it make basketball sense, but a whole lot of financial sense as well.

Dolan, for once, did exactly the right thing.

For basketball reasons, it was far better for Lin to go elsewhere. First of all, keeping him on the team would have created a media circus, with reporters constantly probing the relationship between himself and Carmelo. In addition, Lin was starting to get his diva on, and who knows what would have happened if he was publicly "unhappy" at not getting much playing time in Woody's system.

Not to mention that his true value as a player is far from established. Linsanity encompassed all of 7 games. That's pretty much it. The rest of the time he played, the results were average, to mediocre, to poor. His shooting percentage dropped from above 50% to just over 40% in less than a month, and was headed south when he got injured.

We'll see in Houston what type of player Lin can be over the course of an entire season. My guess is that its not nearly as good as many are assuming.

Also unmentioned is the fact that the general consensus among players is that Lin didn't earn his current contact, but was awarded it based on other factors -- like marketing potential. That would have created an even more toxic environment in the Knicks locker room.

Lin simply isn't good enough to warrant the distractions he would have caused -- just like Tebow.

[HMFFL]

MSG stock is still right around $38 a share.

[StyLeD]

Still baffled by the whole Knicks not matching Lin thing. Not only did it make basketball sense, but a whole lot of financial sense as well.

Dolan, for once, did exactly the right thing.

For basketball reasons, it was far better for Lin to go elsewhere. First of all, keeping him on the team would have created a media circus, with reporters constantly probing the relationship between himself and Carmelo. In addition, Lin was starting to get his diva on, and who knows what would have happened if he was publicly "unhappy" at not getting much playing time in Woody's system.

Not to mention that his true value as a player is far from established. Linsanity encompassed all of 7 games. That's pretty much it. The rest of the time he played, the results were average, to mediocre, to poor. His shooting percentage dropped from above 50% to just over 40% in less than a month, and was headed south when he got injured.

We'll see in Houston what type of player Lin can be over the course of an entire season. My guess is that its not nearly as good as many are assuming.

Also unmentioned is the fact that the general consensus among players is that Lin didn't earn his current contact, but was awarded it based on other factors -- like marketing potential. That would have created an even more toxic environment in the Knicks locker room.

Lin simply isn't good enough to warrant the distractions he would have caused -- just like Tebow.

Only in New York with the Knicks would headcases like JR and to a lesser extent Melo be miffed at Lin's presence in the locker room. Whatever resentment they had towards Lin would've been swept aside once they understood Lin was their best chance at earning that championship.

To me, Dolan made a purely monetary decision when he decided to go with Felton over Lin. To him, the drop-off right now between Felton and Lin was minimal. I agree, and in that sense I believe that Dolan made the right decision in grabbing Felton over Lin.

However, at the same time, for every 1 bad distraction Lin caused, he brought twice the fun and atmosphere in the Garden. He is certainly an exciting player to watch, whether or not you believe he is capable of becoming a go-to scorer does not take away from the fact that he glues people to their TV sets and non-fans to the NYK scene.

Yet Dolan believes the team is in a win-now mode, and for me the only reason why he could've let Lin go was because he truly, truly believed either a) Felton was better than Lin b) they were equal, or c) the drop-off was minimal.

And worst of all, I cannot help but feel sorry for Knicks fans when they watch Lin progress over the next decade. There is no doubt in my mind Lin will eventually surpass Felton. If that happens within the next 3 years, then Dolan would've made a terrible mistake.

[East_Coast]

Only in New York with the Knicks would headcases like JR and to a lesser extent Melo be miffed at Lin's presence in the locker room. Whatever resentment they had towards Lin would've been swept aside once they understood Lin was their best chance at earning that championship.

To me, Dolan made a purely monetary decision when he decided to go with Felton over Lin. To him, the drop-off right now between Felton and Lin was minimal. I agree, and in that sense I believe that Dolan made the right decision in grabbing Felton over Lin.

However, at the same time, for every 1 bad distraction Lin caused, he brought twice the fun and atmosphere in the Garden. He is certainly an exciting player to watch, whether or not you believe he is capable of becoming a go-to scorer does not take away from the fact that he glues people to their TV sets and non-fans to the NYK scene.

Yet Dolan believes the team is in a win-now mode, and for me the only reason why he could've let Lin go was because he truly, truly believed either a) Felton was better than Lin b) they were equal, or c) the drop-off was minimal.

And worst of all, I cannot help but feel sorry for Knicks fans when they watch Lin progress over the next decade. There is no doubt in my mind Lin will eventually surpass Felton. If that happens within the next 3 years, then Dolan would've made a terrible mistake.

No, no, no, no.

The locker room issue extended far beyond just Melo and JR, and had a lot to do with Lin's refusal to play at only "85%" in the playoffs. Not a good way to support your team by leaving them in the lurch.

You obviously have an idealized view of Lin's abilities that isn't backed up by reality. The Knicks do not need a "shoot first" point guard (with a low FG%). They need a pure point (Felton) who can get the ball to their proven scorers (Melo, Amare).

Lin isn't progressing anywhere. There's a reason that he went undrafted and was cut so many times. Once teams started to focus on his weaknesses, he wasn't good enough to overcome them. Wait until he has to go up against the elite guards in the WC on a nightly basis. Lin is lucky he's in Houston. They'll be more gentle when he continuously gets exposed for the good role player that he is.

The problem with some posters on this board is that they're not looking critically enough at Lin as a basketball player. There's a propensity to idealize him based on Linsanity, but that only encompassed a few games. He was in the process of being exposed when he got injured.

You'll see next season what his true worth is. The Knicks will ultimately be justified in letting him go. He's more of a marketing show than a player.

[ibraheim718]

Only in New York with the Knicks would headcases like JR and to a lesser extent Melo be miffed at Lin's presence in the locker room. Whatever resentment they had towards Lin would've been swept aside once they understood Lin was their best chance at earning that championship.

To me, Dolan made a purely monetary decision when he decided to go with Felton over Lin. To him, the drop-off right now between Felton and Lin was minimal. I agree, and in that sense I believe that Dolan made the right decision in grabbing Felton over Lin.

However, at the same time, for every 1 bad distraction Lin caused, he brought twice the fun and atmosphere in the Garden. He is certainly an exciting player to watch, whether or not you believe he is capable of becoming a go-to scorer does not take away from the fact that he glues people to their TV sets and non-fans to the NYK scene.

Yet Dolan believes the team is in a win-now mode, and for me the only reason why he could've let Lin go was because he truly, truly believed either a) Felton was better than Lin b) they were equal, or c) the drop-off was minimal.

And worst of all, I cannot help but feel sorry for Knicks fans when they watch Lin progress over the next decade. There is no doubt in my mind Lin will eventually surpass Felton. If that happens within the next 3 years, then Dolan would've made a terrible mistake.

No, no, no, no.

The locker room issue extended far beyond just Melo and JR, and had a lot to do with Lin's refusal to play at only "85%" in the playoffs. Not a good way to support your team by leaving them in the lurch.

You obviously have an idealized view of Lin's abilities that isn't backed up by reality. The Knicks do not need a "shoot first" point guard (with a low FG%). They need a pure point (Felton) who can get the ball to their proven scorers (Melo, Amare).

Lin isn't progressing anywhere. There's a reason that he went undrafted and was cut so many times. Once teams started to focus on his weaknesses, he wasn't good enough to overcome them. Wait until he has to go up against the elite guards in the WC on a nightly basis. Lin is lucky he's in Houston. They'll be more gentle when he continuously gets exposed for the good role player that he is.

The problem with some posters on this board is that they're not looking critically enough at Lin as a basketball player. There's a propensity to idealize him based on Linsanity, but that only encompassed a few games. He was in the process of being exposed when he got injured.

You'll see next season what his true worth is. The Knicks will ultimately be justified in letting him go. He's more of a marketing show than a player.

Who gets left in the lurch if Lin re-injures the surgically repaired knee? And why didn't team doctors clear him to play?

And how are you going to see what "Lin's true worth is" next year when he'll be just a 2nd year player.. why not judge his "true worth" over the life of his contract?

And any time a team prefers to deal with JR Smith's circus over Jeremy Lin's circus that should tell you about the decision making of said team.

[ibraheim718]

Still baffled by the whole Knicks not matching Lin thing. Not only did it make basketball sense, but a whole lot of financial sense as well.

Except it made neither... you don't let a guy you picked up for peanuts that played himself into an asset with his whole career ahead of him walk for air.

[Dr Aki]

lol, who didn't see this coming?

[BlueDawn]

lol, who didn't see this coming?

Jason Kidd after a few shots.

[HotRocks34]

Jimmy Dolan didn't make his billion. His father Charles Dolan made the billion with Cablevision and then bought his boy a sports team to play with as a reward for cleaning up his act and rehabbing. Jimmy Dolan is a billionaire because he was born one, not because he knows how to make money. It's unfortunate for Knicks fans that the toy Charles bought for his little boy to play with was MSG.

I usually think of Dolan as "Jim Buss East," except that Jim Buss understands something about winning titles and Dolan doesn't.

Both are sons of gazillionaires. Easy lives, lots of partying, failing upward again and again (that is my perception of both men, particularly James Dolan).

I knew Lin was popular, but I wasn't expecting him to be mobbed like a member of the Beatles in Taiwan the other day. And this is just the beginning.

As long as Lin's body holds up -- and it might not -- then I think Dolan is going to look very bad in around 10 years.

[East_Coast]

I knew Lin was popular, but I wasn't expecting him to be mobbed like a member of the Beatles in Taiwan the other day. And this is just the beginning.

99.9% of the people mobbing Lin in Taiwan know zero about basketball. They think, based on the Linsanity hype, that Lin is some kind of superstar -- which he clearly isn't.

Remember: all of this "marketability" being discussed is predicated upon Lin performing at a dominant level on a consistent basis. Just being "good" isn't going to be enough.

Virtually no one talks about the fact that Linsanity had actually ended long before he got injured. Teams, starting with the Heat, had figured out Lin's weaknesses and were starting to exploit them. His shooting % was dropping like a stone, while his turnovers remained high. Not a good combination for a starting point guard.

If Lin turns out to be just an average, or below-average, player all of the hype will just go away. Does anyone see Yi Jianlian getting mobbed in China? No, not many people give a crap because he isn't a very good player. Remember Sun Yue? He played for the media-darling LA Lakers. Wasn't very good, and no one cares about him.

When Lin is being lit up next season by the elite guards in the WC, and if NY is successful in acquiring Chris Paul in free agency, then Dolan will look like a genius.

[Jazza2319]

I knew Lin was popular, but I wasn't expecting him to be mobbed like a member of the Beatles in Taiwan the other day. And this is just the beginning.

99.9% of the people mobbing Lin in Taiwan know zero about basketball. They think, based on the Linsanity hype, that Lin is some kind of superstar -- which he clearly isn't.

Remember: all of this "marketability" being discussed is predicated upon Lin performing at a dominant level on a consistent basis. Just being "good" isn't going to be enough.

Virtually no one talks about the fact that Linsanity had actually ended long before he got injured. Teams, starting with the Heat, had figured out Lin's weaknesses and were starting to exploit them. His shooting % was dropping like a stone, while his turnovers remained high. Not a good combination for a starting point guard.

If Lin turns out to be just an average, or below-average, player all of the hype will just go away. Does anyone see Yi Jianlian getting mobbed in China? No, not many people give a crap because he isn't a very good player. Remember Sun Yue? He played for the media-darling LA Lakers. Wasn't very good, and no one cares about him.

When Lin is being lit up next season by the elite guards in the WC, and if NY is successful in acquiring Chris Paul in free agency, then Dolan will look like a genius.

We're not exactly talking about a country that has tons of talent going to the NBA, the people of Taiwan and Asia in general are going nuts over him because he's the 2nd best asian player to make it to the NBA. The Linsanity thing put him on the map, but i highly doubt they just forget about him EVEN if he comes back down to earth (which i think he will)

As far as the contract, i've been watching these Linsanity games lately on NBA TV and i really think they made a mistake not matching. His contract is fair for the first 2 years and you can guarantee he'll improve in that time, in fact he'll make his biggest improvement as an NBA player most likely between years 2-4 of that contract. If anything, Lin would've made the transition from the Amare/Melo experiment to a new team much easier, now the fans will outrage once they let those guys go because of the limited success they've brought to the team

[East_Coast]

As far as the contract, i've been watching these Linsanity games lately on NBA TV and i really think they made a mistake not matching. His contract is fair for the first 2 years and you can guarantee he'll improve in that time, in fact he'll make his biggest improvement as an NBA player most likely between years 2-4 of that contract. If anything, Lin would've made the transition from the Amare/Melo experiment to a new team much easier, now the fans will outrage once they let those guys go because of the limited success they've brought to the team

It isn't "guaranteed" that Lin will make improvements to the level you're suggesting in 2 - 4 years. I have a feeling that both his ball security and defensive skills will remain non-elite for the rest of his career.

We'll see. For me, this is the #1 storyline going into the new season. If Lin ends up being nothing more than a 40% shooting, turnover-prone lead guard, then there is no way he could live up to your expectations of where he could have taken the Knicks.

The Knicks are going to be very good next year, and Houston will be horrible. I think for Lin getting out of NY was the best possible thing, because he wasn't going to be able to live up to expectations and the city can be brutal.

Just ask Tebow after this football season. Coincidentally, lots of people also talked about Tebow's "guaranteed improvements" as a passer. Now its clear that he simply isn't good at that skill, and will never be.

I'm adopting a wait-and-see approach with Lin. It will be fascinating to watch.

[Tim Horton]

i think Lin will have a tremendous season just to dolan on Dolan. i mean who has more to prove in the coming season?