"Only way to avoid 'super teams' is to impose a hard cap."

twix2500 · Post #41 » by **twix2500** » Mon Aug 13, 2012 3:44 pm

This is just plain dumb, so we going to sit around a tell a player look your too good so you cant play with Kobe or Durant or Lebron.

Agenda42 · Post #42 » by **Agenda42** » Mon Aug 13, 2012 3:45 pm

TheUroborosWorm wrote:The NBA is selling a better product for casual fans now, so going back to 1 "upper echelon all star/super star" for team won't happen, just deal with it, couch fans who write in forums/twitter complaining about his team sucking or how unfair is for LA and MIA to be LA and MIA... are not the target of the product, so you better understand that and try to enjoy the game, support your team and relax, if your front office/owner sucks im sorry for you, they will suck in the "super teams" era and did sucked in the previous eras, and odds are that they will suck in whatever era comes after this one...

Either save a few hundred of millions and buy your team or just buy a few beers, few candy bars, few hot dogs/pizzas/ pop corn and watch the games and enjoy the best team sport for the sake of it, because is fun and amazing.

The NBA is definitely not selling a better product for casual fans now. Regular season ratings are down 15%. Playoffs ratings are down 35%. The Finals are still a big draw because that's where the super teams thing makes for a great product, but the regular season is 80% of NBA revenues.

There are so many pointless, no hope teams in the league right now that half the league is in trouble on the attendance figures. Teams only host the Heat or Lakers 3 times a year; they have 39 other games worth of tickets to sell, and most NBA teams are really struggling to do that.

CablexDeadpool · Post #43 » by **CablexDeadpool** » Mon Aug 13, 2012 3:46 pm

twix2500 wrote:This is just plain dumb, so we going to sit around a tell a player look your too good so you cant play with Kobe or Durant or Lebron.

I know, it's like telling Warren Buffet, "Look you are too rich, you need to stop earning money." :lol:

CablexDeadpool · Post #44 » by **CablexDeadpool** » Mon Aug 13, 2012 3:49 pm

Agenda42 wrote:
TheUroborosWorm wrote:The NBA is selling a better product for casual fans now, so going back to 1 "upper echelon all star/super star" for team won't happen, just deal with it, couch fans who write in forums/twitter complaining about his team sucking or how unfair is for LA and MIA to be LA and MIA... are not the target of the product, so you better understand that and try to enjoy the game, support your team and relax, if your front office/owner sucks im sorry for you, they will suck in the "super teams" era and did sucked in the previous eras, and odds are that they will suck in whatever era comes after this one...

Either save a few hundred of millions and buy your team or just buy a few beers, few candy bars, few hot dogs/pizzas/ pop corn and watch the games and enjoy the best team sport for the sake of it, because is fun and amazing.

The NBA is definitely not selling a better product for casual fans now. Regular season ratings are down 15%. Playoffs ratings are down 35%. The Finals are still a big draw because that's where the super teams thing makes for a great product, but the regular season is 80% of NBA revenues.

There are so many pointless, no hope teams in the league right now that half the league is in trouble on the attendance figures. Teams only host the Heat or Lakers 3 times a year; they have 39 other games worth of tickets to sell, and most NBA teams are really struggling to do that.

The regular season is too long, nobody really cares about the NBA regular season, it's 82 games, it doesn't even get real til April.

There are too many teams.

The game of basketball is expanding, but the NBA, not so much. Even I don't watch the regular season unless it's a new player that is really good I wanna watch, like Rubio.

Prospect Dong · Post #45 » by **Prospect Dong** » Mon Aug 13, 2012 3:54 pm

Aki wrote:and what did memphis do with that capspace? they went out and traded for zach randolph and then proceeded to give him a 71 million dollar extension, and now they have a fantastically balanced and talented team because of the gasol trade, the grizz damn near have the same amount of talent if not more than OKC have

let's not assume teams like memphis need protection from money flinging teams like the lakers, theyre more than capable of building a contender with the resources they currently have

And now Memphis has had to let OJ walk for nothing and give up a pick to clear their backup pg off their cap, and are still looking at another money-saving trade, while LA can keep Gasol as its third highest paid player.

LA has the lineup it does partly because of good management, but largely because it's the kind of place players will force trades to, over and over again, despite it not having had cap space in years. The only way to stop players choosing their destinations, is some sort of hard cap, and Id' support one on that basis.

You'd also need to take away the individual maximum salary rule, so that teams without a top-5 player could still compete, but those two rules together would give you pretty decent competitive balance - good FA's would still dominate, but attractive cities wouldn't necessarily have the inside track to every superstar.

2LeTTeRS · Post #46 » by **2LeTTeRS** » Mon Aug 13, 2012 3:58 pm

Agenda42 wrote:
TheUroborosWorm wrote:The NBA is selling a better product for casual fans now, so going back to 1 "upper echelon all star/super star" for team won't happen, just deal with it, couch fans who write in forums/twitter complaining about his team sucking or how unfair is for LA and MIA to be LA and MIA... are not the target of the product, so you better understand that and try to enjoy the game, support your team and relax, if your front office/owner sucks im sorry for you, they will suck in the "super teams" era and did sucked in the previous eras, and odds are that they will suck in whatever era comes after this one...

Either save a few hundred of millions and buy your team or just buy a few beers, few candy bars, few hot dogs/pizzas/ pop corn and watch the games and enjoy the best team sport for the sake of it, because is fun and amazing.

The NBA is definitely not selling a better product for casual fans now. Regular season ratings are down 15%. Playoffs ratings are down 35%. The Finals are still a big draw because that's where the super teams thing makes for a great product, but the regular season is 80% of NBA revenues.

There are so many pointless, no hope teams in the league right now that half the league is in trouble on the attendance figures. Teams only host the Heat or Lakers 3 times a year; they have 39 other games worth of tickets to sell, and most NBA teams are really struggling to do that.

Down compared to when? Everything I've read shows that in the last 4-5 years ratings have been trending upward.

Tolverines · Post #47 » by **Tolverines** » Mon Aug 13, 2012 4:02 pm

Haven't given too much thought to this, but I have a feeling super-teams are bad for relatively dedicated NBA fans, but very good for the average fan, in other words, they bring in more revenue for the NBA.

Tolverines · Post #48 » by **Tolverines** » Mon Aug 13, 2012 4:02 pm

Haven't given too much thought to this, but I have a feeling super-teams are bad for relatively dedicated NBA fans, but very good for the average fan, in other words, they bring in more revenue for the NBA.

Tim_Hardawayy · Post #49 » by **Tim_Hardawayy** » Mon Aug 13, 2012 4:12 pm

I hate the NBA - NFL comparisons where people say "oh, if the NBA had the same salary system as the NFL they'd have parity"... no, the bigger factor in parity, by far, is the one and done postseason of the NFL, as well as the short 16 game season.

Can you imagine if the NBA went with a 16 game season? Didn't the Heat start out 9-7 2 years ago? What about if the playoffs were one and done... pretty sure the last few championship teams have lost game 1 in at least one of their playoff series.

But for some reason, people completely ignore this and cry about salary over and over again. I don't get it.

yowyOw · Post #50 » by **yowyOw** » Mon Aug 13, 2012 4:28 pm

kblo247 wrote:... LA was being rewarded for being the best franchise in the history of the sport...

.

DanTown8587 · Post #51 » by **DanTown8587** » Mon Aug 13, 2012 4:32 pm

Tim_Hardawayy wrote:I hate the NBA - NFL comparisons where people say "oh, if the NBA had the same salary system as the NFL they'd have parity"... no, the bigger factor in parity, by far, is the one and done postseason of the NFL, as well as the short 16 game season.

Can you imagine if the NBA went with a 16 game season? Didn't the Heat start out 9-7 2 years ago? What about if the playoffs were one and done... pretty sure the last few championship teams have lost game 1 in at least one of their playoff series.

But for some reason, people completely ignore this and cry about salary over and over again. I don't get it.

2011-12 through 16 games

1. Chicago (13-3) v 8. NY (6-10)
2. Philly (11-5) v 7. Boston (7-9)
3. Miami (11-5) v Indiana (11-5)
4. Atlanta (11-5) v Orlando (11-5)

1. OKC (13-3) v 8. Hou (9-7)
2. Den v 7. LAC (10-6)
3. SA (10-6) v 6. LAL (10-6)
4. Utah (10-6) v Memphis (10-6)

nykballa2k4 · Post #52 » by **nykballa2k4** » Mon Aug 13, 2012 4:58 pm

branny wrote:They might have to remove the max contract limit too. I'm sure there's still a bit to alter in the CBA even with these two rules. I don't think shared revenue would matter with a hard cap.. no?

elimination of max contract is the real key. I would also create a franchise tag, not like an RFA, but basically setting a minimum reimbursement for a team losing a super-star. Teams signing will forfeit 2 consecutive first round picks (their next two available) and the team losing the player will gain 2 slotted picks (5th overall and 20th overall, varies with number of players moving). Teams franchising a player would have a qualifying offer for that player that starts are a top 3 salary for that position. There could also be a possibility for a class A and class B franchise tag where class B would be a lesser salary, perhaps 10 million (average starting level player salary at that position) with only 1 pick involved.

LakerLegend · Post #53 » by **LakerLegend** » Mon Aug 13, 2012 4:58 pm

Why dont we see what happens when the stricter trade rules and luxury tax penalties come into play in 2 years.

Prospect Dong · Post #54 » by **Prospect Dong** » Mon Aug 13, 2012 5:19 pm

Lakerfan17 wrote:Why dont we see what happens when the stricter trade rules and luxury tax penalties come into play in 2 years.

the future cap rules are clear to all teams already, and LA have made it clear exactly how scared they are...

Agenda42 · Post #55 » by **Agenda42** » Mon Aug 13, 2012 5:21 pm

2LeTTeRS wrote:
Agenda42 wrote:
TheUroborosWorm wrote:The NBA is selling a better product for casual fans now, so going back to 1 "upper echelon all star/super star" for team won't happen, just deal with it, couch fans who write in forums/twitter complaining about his team sucking or how unfair is for LA and MIA to be LA and MIA... are not the target of the product, so you better understand that and try to enjoy the game, support your team and relax, if your front office/owner sucks im sorry for you, they will suck in the "super teams" era and did sucked in the previous eras, and odds are that they will suck in whatever era comes after this one...

Either save a few hundred of millions and buy your team or just buy a few beers, few candy bars, few hot dogs/pizzas/ pop corn and watch the games and enjoy the best team sport for the sake of it, because is fun and amazing.

The NBA is definitely not selling a better product for casual fans now. Regular season ratings are down 15%. Playoffs ratings are down 35%. The Finals are still a big draw because that's where the super teams thing makes for a great product, but the regular season is 80% of NBA revenues.

There are so many pointless, no hope teams in the league right now that half the league is in trouble on the attendance figures. Teams only host the Heat or Lakers 3 times a year; they have 39 other games worth of tickets to sell, and most NBA teams are really struggling to do that.

Down compared to when? Everything I've read shows that in the last 4-5 years ratings have been trending upward.

Oh, sorry, I should have reported that. NBA regular season ratings are down 15%, and NBA non-Finals playoffs ratings are down 35%, relative to 10 years ago.

2006 was the low water mark, with just a 2.2 share on ABC. 1996 was the high water mark, with a 5.0 share on NBC. Ratings have recovered some since 2006, but the decline in ratings is the main reason NBC dropped the NBA from its program lineup.

Tim_Hardawayy · Post #56 » by **Tim_Hardawayy** » Mon Aug 13, 2012 5:25 pm

DanTown8587 wrote:
Tim_Hardawayy wrote:I hate the NBA - NFL comparisons where people say "oh, if the NBA had the same salary system as the NFL they'd have parity"... no, the bigger factor in parity, by far, is the one and done postseason of the NFL, as well as the short 16 game season.

Can you imagine if the NBA went with a 16 game season? Didn't the Heat start out 9-7 2 years ago? What about if the playoffs were one and done... pretty sure the last few championship teams have lost game 1 in at least one of their playoff series.

But for some reason, people completely ignore this and cry about salary over and over again. I don't get it.

2011-12 through 16 games

1. Chicago (13-3) v 8. NY (6-10)
2. Philly (11-5) v 7. Boston (7-9)
3. Miami (11-5) v Indiana (11-5)
4. Atlanta (11-5) v Orlando (11-5)

1. OKC (13-3) v 8. Hou (9-7)
2. Den v 7. LAC (10-6)
3. SA (10-6) v 6. LAL (10-6)
4. Utah (10-6) v Memphis (10-6)

Thank you.

Now you've got the 76ers as a #2 seed, and Denver and Utah as top 4 seeds in the west. If that's not parity, I don't know what is.

It gets even more staggering if you eliminate teams that lose the first game of a playoff series (both Miami and Oklahoma City did this).

LakerLegend · Post #57 » by **LakerLegend** » Mon Aug 13, 2012 5:27 pm

Prospect Dong wrote:
Lakerfan17 wrote:Why dont we see what happens when the stricter trade rules and luxury tax penalties come into play in 2 years.

the future cap rules are clear to all teams already, and LA have made it clear exactly how scared they are...

LA isnt planning on paying Kobe and gasol a combined $50 million year in 2-3 years.

Agenda42 · Post #58 » by **Agenda42** » Mon Aug 13, 2012 5:30 pm

DanTown8587 wrote:2011-12 through 16 games

1. Chicago (13-3) v 8. NY (6-10)
2. Philly (11-5) v 7. Boston (7-9)
3. Miami (11-5) v Indiana (11-5)
4. Atlanta (11-5) v Orlando (11-5)

Only 6 teams with a winning record? Man, the Leastern Conference is awful.

twinthunder3 · Post #59 » by **twinthunder3** » Mon Aug 13, 2012 5:36 pm

This will just cause certain players to be overpaid & make them think they're a star.

smith2373 · Post #60 » by **smith2373** » Mon Aug 13, 2012 5:37 pm

Kosar86 wrote:The NFL has a hard cap and a franchise tag and all that league has done is dominate the american sports landscape....in the 15+ years of the franchise tag, I cant remember a QB pulling the complaining/i want out of here stuff Carmelo and Dwight have done recently.

Overall league popularity = money.

And I also can't remember players in the NBA refusing to show up for training camp because they want more money.

Is hard cap the only way to avoid "super teams"?