Is Biyombo a bust already?

[Kabookalu]

This man needs a Bill Walton/John Lucas tutoring session in the worst way. I have confidence he'll pan out eventually, but he can't do it alone.

[Buckeye-NBAFan]

How many years did Ben Wallace take to become who he was? Not saying he will be as great. But give a guy time, BC still hasn't given up of Bargs, now that's a problem.

Biyombo will never come close to being as good as Bargnani, so that's a dumb comment.

[No-Man]

Defensively he's better than Ibaka, no question

[Buckeye-NBAFan]

Like any tall atheltic defensive/shot blocking big man, he has a 50/50 chance of being good. Some turn out good like Ibaka, some turn out pretty good like McGee, and some fail like Thabeet

50/50? Just in 2011 alone you won't get 50/50 out of the prospects drafted in the top 10.

Thompson, Vesely, Biyombo, Kanter, Valanciunas. Jury's still out on all of them, but I highly doubt 50% make it to become quality starters in this league.

[fatlever]

The guy is just so raw. He seriously lacks experience, even after a year in the league. Not to compare him to Olajuwon as a player, but come on, you have to acknowledge that even Hakeem wasn't the best offensive player in the league when he entered it and became a juggernaut on that end of the floor after quite a few years.

Bismack's biggest problem right now is consistency and understanding the game. He might have an absolutely wonderful game by his standards - grabbing rebounds, blocking shots, altering shots, making the right rotations, even making a few dunks. However, it's very possible that the next time out he'll have a bad game. And it's because he needs to learn more about the game. It isn't a coincidence that he had those two great games against Dwight - Biz could keep him out the paint with his post defence and could match his athleticism. Now, when he faces a crafty center like Al Jefferson, it's more difficult for him, because he tries too hard to win the match-up by using his athletic abilities and falls for all the nifty fakes and moves guys like Jefferson have. So he has a hard time to contribute in the best way he can and ends up having a **** game altogether. He also sometimes has troubles with properly playing the pick-n-roll, however, he does a good job at being aggressive and trapping the point guard, occasionally he will put too much effort in it and get beat off the dribble though.

Another big issues is his hands. Now, I'm not entirely convinced that he'll ever develop in a, let's say, 10ppg player. He does seem to have some post moves and he is supposedly working very hard, however, he just has terrible hands and there will be games where he won't be able to catch a single pass and the two opportunities at backing his man down he'll get, will end up in him travelling or making a bad decision.

as always, lamar is spot on. fair analysis done by someone who has watched a ton of biz.

just to add a little more...

the comparison should always be to theo ratliff and not ben wallace.

the things that has bobcats fans in love with biz are as follows:
- work ethic: all accounts by coaches, teammates and beat writers suggest he works harder than anyone in practice, never takes a day off.
- attitude: he is not some spoiled AAU teenager who had people telling how great he is since he was 10. he is a humble kid from the congo who appreciates everything he has. he is one of the most likeable players i have ever read about.
- upside: he is only 20, but in terms of basketball, its a very young 20. he literally had no coaching until he came to the NBA and even then he came in a lockout, missed training camp due to contract disputes and spent his first season under silas who is anything but a teacher. it may appear as if he has regressed or not improved this season but that is only because he is just now starting to actually get real solid coaching. it will take him a while to process the information he is learning.

[Goldtop]

He's pretty much done what he was drafted to do - block shots. 2 blks/gm in only 19 mpg this year. He's not getting enough PT, which I don't really understand considering CHA. I doubt he's a defensive liability, which is the reason most coach's don't play players. So who knows.

But his per 36 for his career so far is 8 pts, 9 rebs, and 3 blks/gm. Isn't that the type of big man ppl expected? I haven't watched him a lot, but his production seems like he's playing up to expectations. I think he just needs to play more.

[Woodsanity]

Dude just turned 20. We already knew he was going to be an extremely raw player offensively. He is a very good rebounder and shotblocker though which makes him valuable.

[HornetJail]

He's pretty much done what he was drafted to do - block shots. 2 blks/gm in only 19 mpg this year. He's not getting enough PT, which I don't really understand considering CHA. I doubt he's a defensive liability, which is the reason most coach's don't play players. So who knows.

But his per 36 for his career so far is 8 pts, 9 rebs, and 3 blks/gm. Isn't that the type of big man ppl expected? I haven't watched him a lot, but his production seems like he's playing up to expectations. I think he just needs to play more.

He's playing above expectations even though he's not producing as well this year. He's getting less minutes because of the addition of a decent-looking Brendan Haywood, Diop isn't looking all that horrible, and Mullens is playing well. Bismack just has to earn his minutes like everyone else on the roster. Right now he's a backup center playing about 20mpg, right where he should be. I don't know if he can handle more minutes right now. The minutes aren't much less than they were last season.

[Bobbcats]

I don't think he's going to be Ben Wallace, but it's amazing how many people on this message boards are experts on a guy that even Bobcats fans haven't seen play all that much.

[tsherkin]

Well, right off the top of the order, I think he needs to get better as a rebounder. That element of his game is not impressive. He's 6'9.5" or so in shoes, so he certainly doesn't have great height but with that wingspan and his athleticism, it shouldn't much matter and he's 13-15% TRB player. Not terrible, but not good, either. Massive turnover problems, abominable at the free throw line, no touch outside of 3 feet...

Basically, he's a tall dude with great wingspan and athleticism who blocks a LOT of shots. That's... the definition of a project. He's not even 21 years old, he doesn't have any body of work worth mentioning. He hasn't played AAU, he hasn't played in the NCAA... he's got some time in the Spanish ACB and that's basically it. He's pure physical tools at this point.

That said, it is fairly reasonable to expect that with decent coaching and a little time, he might start to show significant improvement. You're not looking at a star in the making, but I suspect he's a lot better than he's shown so far. Last year is tough to use as any kind of barometer because of the abysmal, all-time-terrible level of play the entire team displayed and some lazy, lazy coaching on behalf of Silas (plus the generally dysfunctional roster, etc). He's not looking that much different this year but again, he's not even 21 years old: he's an international player who's still college-age and he's getting legitimate NBA-style coaching for the first time. He's got some potential.

Tyson Chandler's first season in the NBA wasn't very impressive either... and while he was statistically more productive and efficient by his second season, he's also four inches taller and a similar athletic beast (although Biyombo actually has a considerably superior wingspan). So the point here is that Chandler was seen as a bust for a while, a guy who struggled to find his place in the league after starting out on a dysfunctional post-Jordan Chicago team. Took him several years before he finally found his health and a groove in the league... and then he started to get it going in New Orleans, got turf toe that ended a trade, ended up in Charlotte and, after Jordan back-stabbed the Raptors by backing out of a deal, was part of a title team in his 10th NBA season (started at the same age as Biyombo, too). Then he went to the Knicks and won a DPOY.

So while I doubt Biyombo will develop quite as well as has Chandler, the examples set for us in terms of rebounding and defensive bigs are pretty helpful. Ben Wallace was undrafted, took a few years to get going. Tyson Chandler was the SECOND overall pick, and he took some time to get going and endured the "bust" label for a while. Mark Eaton was taken in the 4th round as the 72nd overall pick. Dennis Rodman was a second round pick, though the 27th overall pick in the draft because it was prior to a lot of expansion).

The point is, defensive specialists are often undervalued and take a little longer to develop slowly. For every Dikembe Mutombo (4th overall) or Marcus Camby (2nd overall), you've got these other examples of guys who developed out of nothing, and Biyombo definitely has the physical tools and the consideration from his team to potentially turn into something like one of those guys. It's always possible that he just busts out, but given his physical tools and the kind of opportunity he's getting, I think he'll turn into a more-than-serviceable player once he "gets his sea legs" in the NBA. I wouldn't be slapping the bust label on him until the end of his rookie deal.

[tsherkin]

decent-looking Brendan Haywood, Diop isn't looking all that horrible, and Mullens is playing well.

This is another good point. While Mullens isn't anything worth mentioning defensively, Diop has been a defensive roleplayer for years and Haywood was a first-round pick who has made a career out of strong defense. So not only does Biyombo have a good situation where he can get decent minutes and is finally getting good coaching (and is still really young), he's got some decent rolemodels around him who can sort of show him the ropes a bit. And the nice thing about Haywood is that he's been a platoon center since he left Washington, so he's not going to make a huge fuss if Biyombo starts to develop.

[HornetJail]

I don't think he's going to be Ben Wallace, but it's amazing how many people on this message boards are experts on a guy that even Bobcats fans haven't seen play all that much.

I'm pretty sure half the non-Bobcats fans who posted here about him being a bust probably watched him like once all of last year and/or know nothing about him and said "He's a Bobcat. Bust."

[Kampuchea]

he can be good, has shown signs. Bobcats stunt his growth with lack of minutes though

[JohnnyKILLroy]

Force feed the kid 35 minutes a game.

[HornetJail]

As I said earlier, we don't think he can handle much more than the 20-24mpg he's getting. He's far too raw to be getting many more minutes than that.

[azuresou1]

What a stupid f***ing topic. Only on RealGM...

Warned for derailing. Check your messages

[JohnnyKILLroy]

As I said earlier, we don't think he can handle much more than the 20-24mpg he's getting. He's far too raw to be getting many more minutes than that.

Why not?

Really what do you have to lose?

[MaxRider]

I dont like the Chuck Hayes comparison, Hayes is an amazing man to man defender, while biyombo is meh in that category. He's a good shot blocker sure, but as an all around defender he still needs to develop.

it took Hayes about 4-5 years to become the defender he is now
he used to be good at defense too
just he can't keep out of foul trouble
he got lot better drawing charge after 4-5 years
must be learning a lot from Battier

[SWedd523]

I know it's easy to say, "he only played more minutes BECAUSE he played well" but when he was finally named the full time starter last year (and the one game he's started this year), he's produced much more than he's being given credit for.

As a starter (in 42 games) he's posted averages of 6.4 points, 7.4 rebounds, and 2.1 blocks in 28.8 minutes.

While that's not Dwight Howard numbers, it's much better than anybody would expect out of one of the rawer players in a long time.