Jazzfan1971 and FloppyMoose's Offseason Preview - The Knicks

[NoLayupRule]

the rebuild the knicks are employing is not the typical one but it is a proven one

some destinations demand rebuilding through the draft, as stated the knicks are a top destination and have deepest pockets. Now with Phil and Melo they hold some legitimacy too.

Building through the draft is a challenge. In todays league the player you hope to get in the draft doesn't usually develop until that player is ready for full free agency. Unless you get very lucky as with Durant, Lillard, etc you are looking at a 4 year build with a good player. Look at Clev getting 3 #1 overalls in 4 years and still being garbage before LeBron returned and they could trade for love.


Back to the knicks - young talent like Hardaway, Early and Shumpert show some prospect but the team will be built on this coming summer or the trade deadline in 2014 - unless Phil sees the cap significantly jumping as rumored and is able to hold off for 2016.

If at the deadline massive expirings and young guys like the ones listed above are enticing enough to land another all star player Phil may go in. Otherwise I expect the cap space - be it 15mil without moves or more with - will be spread to 2 quality pieces to augment Melo's game

Phil's championship teams have always had at least one superstar, one near superstar and many quality role players. Obviously an argument could be made that the #2s were also superstars but I think Pippen, Gasol and young Kobe were made superstars by their playing with true superstars in MJ, prime Kobe and Shaq respectively.

Not sure what the deep pockets can do in the cap NBA but I know Dolan will keep spending and Jackson will keep swapping out for talented players.

thanks for the preview

we shall see!

I think for the Knicks to field a true title contender, they'd need at least another true superstar next to Melo seeing as he's not on the same level as MJ, Kobe or Shaq. I don't see Phil going this way though. I think he'll take a more balanced approach and try a construct a complimentary team with at least 1-2 other all stars and a supporting cast that can maximize the Triangle scheme, create open looks at the three point line and play top 10 defense. This is where I think Melo's contract might come back to bite them.

I don't think anyone outside of the PR department would argue we are close to a contender

however the road to being a contender often comes from getting close and then making a good trade to push over the hump, or home growing a 2nd star, or sometimes in fielding a great full team ala Detroit vs LA

But if the Knicks add players of quality and develop some of our promising draft picks then that move for a 2nd superstar is more in reach than just with cap space and the Melo/Phil combo

[Hornet Mania]

Honestly, from a cynical perspective this wouldn't be a bad year for the Knicks to be a 30-win team. Don't they have their 2015 pick no matter what? That team needs a young talent injection in the worst way, this might be their last shot through the draft for several years.

On the other hand I'm sure Phil wants to make a big move in the 2015 free agency period, and a second embarrassing season would make joining the Knicks a tougher sell.

[Hijinks]

while one can't argue past mistakes and skipping steps with the knicks organization i think your outlook is way too grimm. last season was abysmal with letdowns up until march. they had an awful start and could never dig themselves out of it, even when they played better later on. so many players had bad years from JR to Chandler, from Shump to Felton. As others said, i would really be surprised, if this years team won't be better than last years. they will compete for the playoffs up until the end of the season. will they make it? who knows, but they will be right there.

but all that isn't important. the upcoming season is a transition year and hopefully phil and fish will position the knicks for a better future.

[Scalabrine]

A few things Id like to comment on...

They wont be worse than last year, Felton was absolutely awful on both ends, single handedly lost us games. Also the offense was pretty much get the ball to Melo or Amare, spread the floor, stand and watch and if that fails shoot a 3. It was atrocious to watch and the defense wasnt any better with constant switching and confusion from everywhere.

They finished the season 18-7 last year which is something I think you should have mentioned.

JR Smith would have to have a REALLY bad year to opt in to that contract. Post all star break he averaged 16.6 points (45% fg, 41.7% 3fg, 57.3 ts%), 4 rebounds, 3 assists, solid defense, and he wasnt the ball stopper many label him as. Not all star numbers but definitely worth more than the 1 year 6.3 million he will be on if he opts in. He will probably get offered a similar deal over more years.

Bringing up the front office thing is a little old at this point, the just brought in Phil Jackson to run things and he has complete control.

Everything went wrong for them last year, and they still finished 1 game out of the playoffs. I see them as a playoff team this year, but im a Knick fan, I wouldnt be surprised if they missed it but I think their arent 8 teams in the East that are better and I think they could win the division.

[Witzig-Okashi]

My thoughts are tentative on this, but I think of the Knicks reaching somewhere between 35-42 wins this year.

It's not so much that the Knicks have improved; my reasoning lies with what other Eastern Conf. teams have done to upgrade. Even the teams that have downgraded (Miami, Indiana) haven't fallen enough to where New York is on their level, if not better. I could see them nabbing one of the two last playoff spots in the East, but I'm not convinced they could get any higher yet. Of course, I certainly wouldn't mind being proven wrong, though....

[Capn'O]

Knicks fans keep saying how can the team have a worse record this year than last year since they supposedly improved their roster? I say it's mostly because the rest of the East has improved drastically as well. Add to the fact that the team is implementing a new offensive system and having a rookie head coach, it's going to give them a rough start to the season.

However, I can definitely see the Knicks heading in the right direction with a no nonsense manager in Phil Jackson. I say wait a few years Knicks fans.

The roster hasn't improved talentwise and may have taken a step back for development.

Team attitude, cohesion, management, and health have improved. That is the difference most Knick fans are anticipating.

[Capn'O]

The problem with zone is that you can't use it for very long, because you lose rebounding position and you're susceptible to 3s. The Knicks are just not a good defensive team. Hell you're starting Bargnani and Calderon, former Raptors that were apart of one of the worst defenses in NBA history. Those days were *shudder*

Amare will start if he's healthy.

[Jadoogar]

A few things Id like to comment on...

They wont be worse than last year, Felton was absolutely awful on both ends, single handedly lost us games. Also the offense was pretty much get the ball to Melo or Amare, spread the floor, stand and watch and if that fails shoot a 3. It was atrocious to watch and the defense wasnt any better with constant switching and confusion from everywhere.

They finished the season 18-7 last year which is something I think you should have mentioned.

JR Smith would have to have a REALLY bad year to opt in to that contract. Post all star break he averaged 16.6 points (45% fg, 41.7% 3fg, 57.3 ts%), 4 rebounds, 3 assists, solid defense, and he wasnt the ball stopper many label him as. Not all star numbers but definitely worth more than the 1 year 6.3 million he will be on if he opts in. He will probably get offered a similar deal over more years.

Bringing up the front office thing is a little old at this point, the just brought in Phil Jackson to run things and he has complete control.

Everything went wrong for them last year, and they still finished 1 game out of the playoffs. I see them as a playoff team this year, but im a Knick fan, I wouldnt be surprised if they missed it but I think their arent 8 teams in the East that are better and I think they could win the division.

Did everything go wrong for them? The Hawks lost Horford for the whole year. So many teams were tanking. Melo was amazing.

Other than Calderon, I don't really see anywhere that the Knicks improved this year. People always bring up Phil Jackson (no experience in the front office) and Derek Fisher (no experience in coaching) as positives but they're more unknowns at this point. For all we know, Fisher could be worse than Woodson. Tyson wasn't great last year but he's still probably better than Dalembert. Their defense will still be bad with Bargnani, Calderon and Amare.

[Scalabrine]

A few things Id like to comment on...

They wont be worse than last year, Felton was absolutely awful on both ends, single handedly lost us games. Also the offense was pretty much get the ball to Melo or Amare, spread the floor, stand and watch and if that fails shoot a 3. It was atrocious to watch and the defense wasnt any better with constant switching and confusion from everywhere.

They finished the season 18-7 last year which is something I think you should have mentioned.

JR Smith would have to have a REALLY bad year to opt in to that contract. Post all star break he averaged 16.6 points (45% fg, 41.7% 3fg, 57.3 ts%), 4 rebounds, 3 assists, solid defense, and he wasnt the ball stopper many label him as. Not all star numbers but definitely worth more than the 1 year 6.3 million he will be on if he opts in. He will probably get offered a similar deal over more years.

Bringing up the front office thing is a little old at this point, the just brought in Phil Jackson to run things and he has complete control.

Everything went wrong for them last year, and they still finished 1 game out of the playoffs. I see them as a playoff team this year, but im a Knick fan, I wouldnt be surprised if they missed it but I think their arent 8 teams in the East that are better and I think they could win the division.

Did everything go wrong for them? The Hawks lost Horford for the whole year. So many teams were tanking. Melo was amazing.

Other than Calderon, I don't really see anywhere that the Knicks improved this year. People always bring up Phil Jackson (no experience in the front office) and Derek Fisher (no experience in coaching) as positives but they're more unknowns at this point. For all we know, Fisher could be worse than Woodson. Tyson wasn't great last year but he's still probably better than Dalembert. Their defense will still be bad with Bargnani, Calderon and Amare.

Just because the Hawks had things go wrong for them doesnt mean things didnt go wrong for the Knicks.

Chandler broke his leg in the second game.
Amare was in and out of the lineup.
Bargs and Kenyon Martin missed the entire second half because of injuries.
JR Smith was AWFUL the first half.
Felton was terrible, going through divorce, then had the gun charges and was in jail/court. He was a borderline Top 50 point guard.
Prigioni broke his toe.
Shumpert didnt improve.
Woodson was just so damn predictable. Melo or 3. Switch on everything. He didnt find a rotation till about 50 games into the season.

Up until the last 25 games, the only bright spots were THj and Melo.

No Knicks fan expected 39 wins after our 55 win season the year before.

[JSmooth93]

Knicks are gonna have a great season.

50+ wins.

Slim-Melo 25/9/5/1.5/1

Our guard rotation is gonna be really good this year, especially since JR isn't starting injured again.

[Destructor]

the rebuild the knicks are employing is not the typical one but it is a proven one

some destinations demand rebuilding through the draft, as stated the knicks are a top destination and have deepest pockets. Now with Phil and Melo they hold some legitimacy too.

Building through the draft is a challenge. In todays league the player you hope to get in the draft doesn't usually develop until that player is ready for full free agency. Unless you get very lucky as with Durant, Lillard, etc you are looking at a 4 year build with a good player. Look at Clev getting 3 #1 overalls in 4 years and still being garbage before LeBron returned and they could trade for love.


Back to the knicks - young talent like Hardaway, Early and Shumpert show some prospect but the team will be built on this coming summer or the trade deadline in 2014 - unless Phil sees the cap significantly jumping as rumored and is able to hold off for 2016.

If at the deadline massive expirings and young guys like the ones listed above are enticing enough to land another all star player Phil may go in. Otherwise I expect the cap space - be it 15mil without moves or more with - will be spread to 2 quality pieces to augment Melo's game

Phil's championship teams have always had at least one superstar, one near superstar and many quality role players. Obviously an argument could be made that the #2s were also superstars but I think Pippen, Gasol and young Kobe were made superstars by their playing with true superstars in MJ, prime Kobe and Shaq respectively.

Not sure what the deep pockets can do in the cap NBA but I know Dolan will keep spending and Jackson will keep swapping out for talented players.

thanks for the preview

we shall see!

I think for the Knicks to field a true title contender, they'd need at least another true superstar next to Melo seeing as he's not on the same level as MJ, Kobe or Shaq. I don't see Phil going this way though. I think he'll take a more balanced approach and try a construct a complimentary team with at least 1-2 other all stars and a supporting cast that can maximize the Triangle scheme, create open looks at the three point line and play top 10 defense. This is where I think Melo's contract might come back to bite them.

I don't think anyone outside of the PR department would argue we are close to a contender

however the road to being a contender often comes from getting close and then making a good trade to push over the hump, or home growing a 2nd star, or sometimes in fielding a great full team ala Detroit vs LA

But if the Knicks add players of quality and develop some of our promising draft picks then that move for a 2nd superstar is more in reach than just with cap space and the Melo/Phil combo

I was just making a prediction as to how Phil will approach making them a contender. A you're right about changing the overall culture to attract that second marquee player though.

[Tave]

I still don't view the Knicks as serious players come May and June, but way too many people are sleeping on them. They overachieved in 2013 and severely underachieved last year. They'll bounce back towards the middle.

[kinein]

The moment the Knicks let Lin go away after saying they would match up to 1 billion $ - was the beginning of the fall after a very magical shortened astronomical rise to the top of the "whats trending charts". A lot of blind-fans fell for the "Win-Now" mode when they got Kidd, Felton and the rest of the guys on their last legs. Without realizing that they had 2 years max, little did they know it was only going to be a 1 season deal. Sure there was early excitement but wit the toll of a full-regular season. Things quickly fell apart..

This was seen in a smaller micro picture with J.R. Smith winning 6th man of the Year and failing to command a max 80 million dollar + contract that James Harden had received.

The dreams that once were quickly scattered like dust in the wind.

The only hope is that Jackson and Fisher can build a team from scratch now that they have Melo secured for the rest of his prime playing years.

[suntzuballin]

32/50 sounds right I wonder how many pts melo will have in those 32 games.

Sent from my SGH-I337M using RealGM Forums mobile app

[stuporman]

Sure the Knicks have alot of question marks but to come to the conclusion that they only win 32 games this season is to assume every one of those question marks turns into a negative.

To assume that everyone will be a negative is a show of personal bias not basketball understanding or insight.

A better balanced and system fitting roster, a coach, albeit rookie, that will run a proven title winning system with a veteran staff that is knowledgeable of that system and a motivated Melo who is in about the best shape of his career equals at least the acknowledgment that not every question mark will turn into a negative.

Jackson never coached a team with a losing record and that didn't make the playoffs, Fisher only missed the playoffs twice in a 18 years playing career and Melo missed the playoffs in his 11 year career only once by only 1 game in what is considered a disaster of a season last year.

To suggest that this franchise lead by these 3 consistently winning individuals serving as GM, coach and top player will not just miss the playoffs but get worse is not 'reasonable' to conclude, it falls more in the 'bold prediction' category.

This isn't me saying they will win a title or even be a top team in their conference but just to point to their professional basketball careers as evidence of results that is counter intuitive to the 'prediction' made in this thread.

Now that I had time to I explained why I gave this preview a D.... I only gave it better than an F because of the good spelling, grammar and punctuation to which your 5th grade English teacher would be proud.

[jazzfan1971]

I think there are some 'non' question marks as well.

Calderon's defense
Barg's affect on the floor
A jumble at SG.
A PF who you folks seem to be counting on that struggles to keep healthy

Seriously. If I was an opposing player I'd be licking my chops to match up against the Knicks. That's looks to my eye to be the least functional defense in the league. You'll score some, Melo will see to that, but, I think more nights than not you will be giving up more points than you score.

I don't consider myself a Knicks hater in the least. A Laker hater, yes. A Knicks hater? Why would I bother? There is no bad blood there that I know of. I wish you the best of luck this season and I even think there is an outside shot you capture that 8th seed. (I'm guessing the 9th seed though, understand that my seed projection is separate from Floppymoose's projected wins projection, the two aren't related)

[Mr_Perfect]

The Knicks will not be a good team but this is expected. This is a transition year until this offseason when all their gargantuan contracts (sans JR) expire and they can rebuild properly. Don't forget the 2015 1st round pick they also own.

All this season will be is one long extended practice for Derek Fisher to get his legs under him as coach and an opportunity for young guys like Hardaway Jr and Shumpert to prove their worth. Don't sleep on Cole Aldrich making some noise if he wins the starting center spot against a crop of aging Samuel Dalembert and the pathetic Andrea Bargnani.

[floppymoose]

I've been not sleeping on Cole Aldrich for so long that I fell asleep.

[beasonu]

OP is a moron.


All that needs to be said. Will bookmark for lolz in March

[floppymoose]

OP is a moron.

This from the guy who said:

Enjoy mediocrity for years to come Golden State because of this tool [Klay Thompson].

Well I guess you showed me.