Kemba Walker: Believer or Non-Believer?

[hoopnharm]

kinda cool to see him and jer on the same team, they went at each other in 2009 I think?

[hodgy#11]

Kemba believer - no
Non-believer - no

He's a decent player, a good find where they drafted him. He plays his tail off, is clutch, just can't shoot a lick.

Could be a very interesting player this year with Batum generating some of the offence for them.

This thread has made me realise that Mike Conley is probably the most underrated player in the entire league

[andyo]

Non-Believer, I think he has talent, there's just too much influx of dynamic young PG talent coming up every year, and in the league right now, for him to be considered anything special.

[dc]

Not a believer. He's clearly an NBA player, but ultimately not a good one to invest a lot of time/money in the hopes that he will lead your team anywhere. In many ways, the worst kind of player to build around. Is productive enough and will show you heart/clutch in a game every now and then to make you believe he's a long term piece worth investing in, but he's just not that guy. Some say he could be a good 6th man, but he's not efficient enough a scorer to be that instant offense guy off the bench.

Don't mean to hate on the guy. He plays hard and shows a lot of heart out there but he's likely still in the bottom half of starting PGs even if he maxes out his ability. He'll likely get another 2 years as a starter before everyone comes to their senses that he's just not good enough to be that guy.

Often times in the NBA, it's just better to have a guy stink and turn into a bust right away as opposed to investing time trying to build around a guy who shows you enough to be fools gold.

[LofJ]

Not a believer. He's clearly an NBA player, but ultimately not a good one to invest a lot of time/money in the hopes that he will lead your team anywhere. In many ways, the worst kind of player to build around. Is productive enough and will show you heart/clutch in a game every now and then to make you believe he's a long term piece worth investing in, but he's just not that guy. Some say he could be a good 6th man, but he's not efficient enough a scorer to be that instant offense guy off the bench.

Don't mean to hate on the guy. He plays hard and shows a lot of heart out there but he's likely still in the bottom half of starting PGs even if he maxes out his ability. He'll likely get another 2 years as a starter before everyone comes to their senses that he's just not good enough to be that guy.

Often times in the NBA, it's just better to have a guy stink and turn into a bust right away as opposed to investing time trying to build around a guy who shows you enough to be fools gold.

Just in time for this guy to take his spot:

[Kevin Johnson]

If Charlotte actually knew how to draft, Kemba wouldn't have to do so much.

If Charlotte knew how to draft, maybe they would have drafted Klay Thompson, Kawhi Leonard, Jimmy Butler, Nikola Vucevic, Faried, Parsons, Jackson, etc who all went after Kemba.

But is it his fault that Charlotte hasn't surrounded him with more talent? ..............................................
.............. He's never been given the pieces to truly facilitate.

Kemba Walker is not some star that needs to be surrounded with more talent. He's an inefficient chucker who needs to be the surrounding piece - best as a 6th man on a short leash who's left in the game when he's on hot streak and promptly yanked when he begins his over-dribbling brickfests playing hero ball.

Stands to reason Kemba would be a little bit better playing with Marc Gasol and Zach Randolph no? He's played his entire career with wings who can't shoot.

Another indirect comparison to Mike Conley. The Mike Conley comparison's are bizarre. He's nothing like Mike Conley. Conley is very high IQ, very aware of his limitations, never tries to do too much, always in control, better defensively, and has elite speed. Also highly relevant is that Conley is not a great shooter but he's a much better shooter than Kemba yet Conley is very selective about his shots and knows not to shoot when he's cold. Kemba will brick to kingdom come whether he's hot or not.

Conley has also played most of his career with wings who cannot shoot. True though, MKG makes Tony Allen look like Steph Curry

[NikolaPekovic]

I've never thought he was good. People see a game winner every once in a while and think a guy is an above average player.

[RebuildaBulls]

Hes pretty average in my book. He has decent numbers but Hornets haven't done anything so not much impact there

[MrBigShot]

Non believer. He just can't find the consistency...when his jumper is falling he's capable of taking over a game offensively. But unfortunately those moments are few and far in between. Last year he played like a flat out all star in December, and like a back up PG in several other months of the season.

[CablexDeadpool]

Kemba isn't a chucker. He is often the last player with the ball, he often tries to put the team on his back...

His teams is just trash. He needs to be traded.

[jerep_path]

Kemba Walker is a 3rd option at best. If your team is relying on him to become their best player, then they're in trouble.

[AbC?]

The DeMar DeRozan of PGs. Puts up points on terrible efficiency, below average defender, advanced stats nightmare. If he's your team's best player then your team's ceiling is fairly limited.

Was going to post this.

[Takingbaconback]

Wasn't a believer when he came out, thought he did some nice things when came into the league, and now I am on the fence.

[Mylie10]

Mike Conley is a perfect comparison. Someone who can be a great contributor and be very helpful but isn't quite All-Star caliber.

Except for the fact that Mike Conley is waaayyyyy better than Kemba. Conley is a complete player, while Kemba tends to focus more on one side of the ball, and is inefficient at that.

I'm a non believer in Kemba. He'd be a nice scoring sixth man type.

[hokageinfamus]

Never was a big fan of him as a starter, could be really good as a sixth man in the mold of Bobby Jackson

[bondom34]

Looking at the past 30 years one thing has remained constant..I know it's easy to say this in hindsight but look at the names

No team has won a Title with a pure shoot first PG who didn't possess a solid basketball IQ or at the minimum terrific playmaking ability



Late 70's/1980s

Sonics/Celtics
Dennis Johnson
Consumate team player, served as the playmaker alongside scoring guard Gus Williams in Seattle, and ran the engine for Boston.

Lakers
Magic Johnson
Do I really need to explain.

Sixers
Mo Cheeks
Consumate team player, focused on defense and facilitating. Was versed enough in X's & O's to coach a while in the league

Pistons
Isiah Thomas
Was a guard who can put points on the board, maybe not as high of an IQ as a Magic or Dennis, but his speed, penetration made him one of the most deadly playmakers in the game.

1990's

Bulls -
John Paxon
High IQ player, knew his role. Influential enough knowledge to become a huge name in Front Office circles.

Steve Kerr
Very High IQ player, played within his limitations, currently one of the best coaching minds in the game today.

Rockets
Kenny Smith
Learned under Dean Smith, pretty good playmaker and took care of the basketball. Wouldn't surprise to see him get an assisting coaching job at some point.

Sam Cassell
One of highest IQ's in basketball. Could score the Rock, and was a killer off the ball and knew how to get people involved. Is currently a coach earning high praise for his development of John Wall.

2000's

Spurs

Avery Johnson
One of best leaders in game at that point, consummate teammate, playmaker with extremely high on court IQ.

Tony Parker
Although he doesn't possess pure court vision of a Magic & Kidd he is an exceptional playmaker. The ability to finish around the basket at an unseen elite level..(lead the league in points in paint one season...)and his unstoppable mid range game open up a ton of opportunities where he finds open teammates. After his rookie year of forcing a bit too much, he subscribed to Pops game plan and became one of the best guards at making the hockey assists. Aka this dude moves the damn ball.

Lakers

Derek Fisher
Extremely high IQ player, knew his role, played within himself. Currently one of youngest coaches to date.

Pistons

Chauncey Billups
Before his chucking days just trying to reach point milestones in his later years, he was a damn high IQ player. Learned under Terrell Brandon and really knew how to set up a half court offense.


Heat

Jason Williams
Although you can argue he isn't the highest IQ player around, he was more than capable of making plays.

LeBron James
Resisting putting Chalmers here, but this was the man who ultimately ran Miami's offense.


Mavericks
Jason Kidd - See Magic Johnson...Do I really need to explain


Celtics
Rajon Rondo
Again I think his IQ is a bit overrated...stops the ball a bit too much in his quest to chase assists to be considered in the class of a Jason Kidd or Magic Johnson level but he is an elite playmaker and a pure pass first point.


[b]Warriors/b]

Steph Curry
If your box score watching, you can argue he is a shooting guard, but watching this guy play since Davidson, he possesses Nash like flair for passing. Pretty great court vision and playmaking ability. Also has the ability to be elite off the ball allowing Shaun Livingston, who is also a high IQ player in his own right, to run the offense.




Again it's easy to diagnose this in hindsight but the point is that you need a High IQ point (No pun intended) OR simply ridiculously talented playmaker (Tony Parker, Steph Curry, Jason Williams) to play basketball the way it is meant to be played and compete for a Title.

I can confidently say that these players will never win a championship as POINT GUARDS of their Respective teams.
All players who need a ridiculously amount of ISO's to capitalize on their respective elite skills. Rarely look to get others involved unless all else is lost.

Derrick Rose
Russell Westbrook
Kyrie Irving
Kemba Walker

Not to say they can't be effective players...Iverson's best years were when he slid over to shooting guard. I can see the same happening for Kyrie in the future for instance.

Out of Rose, Westbrook, Irving and Walker. One name doesn't belong. The other 3 are very effective and efficient for their career.

I hear you..Kemba definitely belongs in the 6th man instant offense category along with the Jrue Holiday, Brandon Knights and Brandon Jennings of the universe.
Kyrie, Westbrook or pre injury Rose I believe would be deadly off the ball playing with an Eric Snow like guard. As a second penetrator/ball handler and primary scorer on a defensive minded team that allowed them to be able to afford to take more mid range shots and "long 2's."

My point was more so that I'm not taking any them in a 7 game series deep into the playoffs as my full time starting "Ball Handler"
Kyrie & Westbrook are incredibly efficient but the problem lies, with one bad shooting game the entire offense is out of synch.

A point guard such as John Stockton or Chris Paul may not ever be as explosive as a scorer, but if their outside shot is running cold, or can't penetrate at will due to injury (CP3 post knee surgery, Tony Parker groin injury) they can still run a successful offense.
Steph Curry has shown the ability to do this even in College. I watched his team multiple times win by about 20-30 points without him having to take more than a few shots...granted this was partly due to defensive design. But he showed the ability to affect the game in a big time way without shooting.

I can't say the same about a guy like Kyrie. Definitely not Kemba.
Heck when I played against Kyrie in HS against St Pats he wasn't even the full time point guard, that was Dexter Strickland.

You're mischaracterising Westbrook, Irving, and Rose at the least, as all 3 are willing passers capable of scoring. Also, you're disregarding Irving when he plays with Lebron but Lebron was the PG so Chalmers doesn't count? Also, KD can play point forward. And finally, you're really selling some of these guys as things they're not to make a point.

[HotelVitale]

Kemba probably developed some bad habits playing on so many terrible iterations of the Horncats. His shooting is pretty bad overall, but that doesn't mean he's beyond reproach.

Yeah, it's about his skills and capabilities. He's lightning quick and understands space well, and he can get to the basket creatively plus hit runners and floaters. His shot isn't awful either. He has a lot of the raw abilities of a very good PG like Tony Parker. I doubt he'll be able to perfect his game and his repertoire like TP did at his peak, but he's a much better pure talent than people are letting on here. People seem really quick with the whole 'awful' or 'terrible' thing when talking about one of the 20-30 most talented point guards in the world.

He is literally a poor poor man's Kyrie.

Put Kyrie in this guy's gruel:
https://bioscopic.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/comment_les_pauvres_mangent_c3a0_paris.jpg
That's the only thing a 'poor poor man's Kyrie' could 'literally' be.

[RollingWave]

It is interesting in a sense I'd think.

I do think viewing things in a vacuum of stats is sometimes misleading, as it doesn't compare the context of the system, as we have learned, a PG putting up great stats when coached by MDA can be misleading. on the other hand, one that doesn't put up good stats under grit and grind type systems may not be as bad as you think.

however, having said that, there's no denying that Walker was BAD last year, his RPM and just flat plus minus all reflect that (not a good sign when Mo Williams is a positive and your staring PG is a negative.) but, we also can not overlook that the year before Walker's +/- related stats was pretty decent. one can make a very compelling statistical argument that last year they may have won a couple more games simply switching Jeremy Lin with him.

I'd say this is sort of a make or break year, but i'd agree I don't think he has that much of a good ceiling ahead of him, guys don't learn how to finish around the rim if they can't do it in their first few years. then again, he's also a real rotation player, and that contract will look pretty small once the cap jumps.

It's fine, they can make the playoff with him or Lin at the helm anyway. they're not really looking at championship or playoff in the west .

[mango2209]

His best comparison is probably a shorter Brandon Jennings

[Laimbeer]

Kemba Walker is going into his 5th year with the Charlotte Hornets, and despite leading them to the playoffs a couple years ago, they continue to be a fairly dysfunctional franchise. Walker averaged 17.3 ppg/5.1 apg/3.5rpg on 39% from the field and nearly 31% from 3. Though his shooting numbers are sub-par, this is largely in part to his somewhat erratic shot selection, streaky shooting ability, and being forced to carry most of the offensive load for the Hornets.

Despite a lot of the criticism Walker receieves due to his inefficiency, I am still a believer. He just turned 25 not too long ago, so he is still young and has time to continue to improve his shot and his decision making, as well as brush up on his PG skills. I think the addition of Jeremy Lamb, Nicholas Batum, and even Frank Kaminsky will really benefit Walker. The Hornets did have anyone who could stretch the floor last year and were the worst 3-point shooting team in the NBA, which I believe has really, negatively affected Walkers play.

I think he is going to have a better 2015-2016 season. I do not think he will make the ASG and he may never make it, but I think he can be a sort of similar caliber player as Mike Conley in the future.

This screams for a poll.