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OnlyOneWay2Play wrote:

Jedi32 wrote:

OnlyOneWay2Play wrote:
Passed on:





to take:

yeah because okafor has completely changed the losing culture in philly give russell a little more time, also porzingis is playing with prime melo. still he's only averaging 14/7 on 42% shooting as a 7 footer. not bad,but definitely not mind blowing.

Every single GM in the league would immediately hang-up laughing if they were offered Russell for Porzingis. And probably 28 out of 30 would if it was Okafor for Russell (only maybe dumb teams like the Kings and Lakers would consider it).

The fact is, skilled size is still MUCH more valuable than a decent combo-guard; and it's not even clear at all if Russell will ever become even above-average. There are at least 20 very good to excellent PGs in the league. There are less than 10 centers that can get you 20 and 10 on good efficiency like Okafor will for a decade. And Porzingis is a new breed of stretch-5 who can also protect the rim; it's basically him, KAT, and AD in that class by themselves.

I'm all for taking a small over a big, if the small is truly a star. The problem is, Russell is nowhere near guys like Curry, Westbrook, CP3 (and even talents like Lillard and Kyrie).

statements like the first have no way of being proven. okafor and porzingis are great players. sometimes players take longer to develop. like i said before give russell a little time.

I think 2 or 3 years ago, Jim Buss said,

"If the lakers still suck in 2-3 years, I will reassign.."

It really feels like it has been a LONG time since he said that

If so the Lakers can give us a first rounder

Yup...I'd pass up a chance of building around Porzingis for this too...

Jedi32 wrote:. okafor and porzingis are great players. sometimes players take longer to develop. like i said before give russell a little time.

I'm not really missing Okafor anymore. The dude is as bad on defense as advertised. Him and randle would have never worked.

Porzingas is a freaking 1 in a billion player... But with the lakers? I'm sure Byron Scott would play him 8 mins a game...



Russell is putting up fine numbers (not earth shattering, but fine), while being about the 3rd option on offense when he is on the floor, playing with fellow combo guards Clarkson and Lou. He has no P'N'R bigs on the roster, no one that is a good catch and shoot player.


Russell is a plus rebounder for a guard.
His defense has been better than expected (not like marcus smart level, but the best guard defender on the lakers)
He has great passing vision/ability (no one to pass to, or set him a screen right now)
And he has some confidence on creating his own shot on the perimeter, and can finish in the lane (despite his athletic limitations.)


People wanted him to be like Russell Westbrook, when he really is Andre Miller with a jump shot.

ESPN over-hyped him the moment he was draft
When he was drafted, ESPN says,
"Here is the guy that is going to replace kobe on the lakers as the franchise headliner."
Then they showed a graphic of Curry, Westbrook, and Harden and said...
"Here is his new competition out west."

So, ESPN basically hyped him up to replace Kobe, and then be piers with Curry/Harden/Westbrook....
A lot of pressure for a 19 year old kid...

I would have rather signed Rondo, and drafted Porzinags... but... Russell has the potential to be special.

trevm37 wrote:That being said, no one would mind if Jim Buss took a backseat, but getting rid of Mutch Kupchak, one of the best GMs in the league would be a huge mistake. 27 or 28 teams would be lining up to hire him. (Heat and Warriors are the exceptions)

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/12555148/2015-front-office-rankings-top-executives

I don't agree.

one can only hope

in saying that don't really want the triangle back because no one in the league can coach it well, Phil was the master of the system, he doesn't have any good students though (Kobe probably will be able to coach it well but that is a few years down the line)

anyway, good move, not sure if i want to see Mitch leave, i mean he holds some responsibility but Jimbo is the main priority

I'd rather us go with Luke Walton as a coach or hire a guy like a David Blatt or Thibs and work from there

Nolan wrote:I'll believe it when I see it. I really don't believe anything that comes out SAS's mouth.

you guys say that a lot, but he's been right about plenty

Its not like he's Chris freakin Broussard

Infinite Llamas wrote:Yup...I'd pass up a chance of building around Porzingis for this too...

Always nice to see someone get out of prison after a year. Did you also know Donald Trump is running for president?

BigCuz wrote:

Nolan wrote:I'll believe it when I see it. I really don't believe anything that comes out SAS's mouth.

you guys say that a lot, but he's been right about plenty

Its not like he's Chris freakin Broussard

Bbbbbuuuuut, Broussard has multiple sources.

Doctor MJ wrote: But to me, if you've got a GM who wasn't close to being fired before this year, you don't consider offing him just for that - you off the coach.

I'm as passionate about my team as anyone, but I think killing the GM or coach is going a bit too far.

so she's finally decided to be a housewife?

OnlyOneWay2Play wrote:

Jedi32 wrote:

OnlyOneWay2Play wrote:
Passed on:





to take:

yeah because okafor has completely changed the losing culture in philly give russell a little more time, also porzingis is playing with prime melo. still he's only averaging 14/7 on 42% shooting as a 7 footer. not bad,but definitely not mind blowing.

Every single GM in the league would immediately hang-up laughing if they were offered Russell for Porzingis. And probably 28 out of 30 would if it was Okafor for Russell (only maybe dumb teams like the Kings and Lakers would consider it).

The fact is, skilled size is still MUCH more valuable than a decent combo-guard; and it's not even clear at all if Russell will ever become even above-average. There are at least 20 very good to excellent PGs in the league. There are less than 10 centers that can get you 20 and 10 on good efficiency like Okafor will for a decade. And Porzingis is a new breed of stretch-5 who can also protect the rim; it's basically him, KAT, and AD in that class by themselves.

I'm all for taking a small over a big, if the small is truly a star. The problem is, Russell is nowhere near guys like Curry, Westbrook, CP3 (and even talents like Lillard and Kyrie).

If Russell was near Curry, westbrook, etc.. after 50 games, I think everyone would going crazy about how the lakers got the steal of the draft. He's been fine where he is at, you can't overanalyze his game after one year, i'd say going into year 2 it is appropriate to make bigger comparisons like that. Give him a whole year adjusting to the NBA game, and lifestyle. Not every top 5 pick needs to be as good as Lebron James or something. The same should be said for Okafor and Porz. I could say the Okafor will always be a liability on defense and just be the next Big AL. or Porz. can stay at where he is and never get better. All the rookies need time and a good offseason to develop their games.

jbk1234 wrote:No. Dolan is paying him a bunch of money.

He has an opt out clause.

OnlyOneWay2Play wrote:

Jedi32 wrote:

OnlyOneWay2Play wrote:
Passed on:

Spoiler:

to take:

yeah because okafor has completely changed the losing culture in philly give russell a little more time, also porzingis is playing with prime melo. still he's only averaging 14/7 on 42% shooting as a 7 footer. not bad,but definitely not mind blowing.

Every single GM in the league would immediately hang-up laughing if they were offered Russell for Porzingis. And probably 28 out of 30 would if it was Okafor for Russell (only maybe dumb teams like the Kings and Lakers would consider it).

The fact is, skilled size is still MUCH more valuable than a decent combo-guard; and it's not even clear at all if Russell will ever become even above-average. There are at least 20 very good to excellent PGs in the league. There are less than 10 centers that can get you 20 and 10 on good efficiency like Okafor will for a decade. And Porzingis is a new breed of stretch-5 who can also protect the rim; it's basically him, KAT, and AD in that class by themselves.

I'm all for taking a small over a big, if the small is truly a star. The problem is, Russell is nowhere near guys like Curry, Westbrook, CP3 (and even talents like Lillard and Kyrie).

There is no way a GM would take Okafor over Russell in the modern NBA. That's laughable.

Slava wrote:
Always nice to see someone get out of prison after a year. Did you also know Donald Trump is running for president?

well, sure, the clowns have fled the big top but the circus is still certainly in town. Russell over Porzingis might be a stretch, drama with the Buss's who are seemingly always at odds, a coach picking fights on Instagram and a future largely dependent on free agents seeing stars. Sure, they can win the Simmons sweepstakes and maybe Russell will develop into a special player, but alls I'm saying is that right now, there's not a great difference between the two franchises. Phil bailing on the Knicks wouldn't exactly be a highlight on his HOF resume.

as for the presidential race, well, that's a completely different type of circus.

BigCuz wrote:

Nolan wrote:I'll believe it when I see it. I really don't believe anything that comes out SAS's mouth.

you guys say that a lot, but he's been right about plenty

Its not like he's Chris freakin Broussard

He's also been wrong a lot too. Which is the problem, at best 50% of the stuff he reports is trueish.

Jedi32 wrote:

Doctor MJ wrote:

Lost Angel wrote:if the Lakers land the number 1 pick, do you think this is a plausible scenario?

Well, overriding everything is as you suspect, the relationship between Jimmy and Jeanie Buss. We can only speculate there.

My take on it has always been that Jeanie has no real right to give her brother the axe until he's been 1 full attempt to rebuild. I realize the team has sucked for 3 years, and in other circumstances that might have been enough, but with Kobe there, the future has been put on hold. Of course if Jeanie blamed Jimmy for that, and advised him to do otherwise, that's one thing, but it was a pretty understandable decision as much as I personally didn't like it.

Last thought: I've been much more uncomfortable with the Lakers this year compared to previous years because of the way Kobe's become a circus and Byron's been acting just plain weird. But to me, if you've got a GM who wasn't close to being fired before this year, you don't consider offing him just for that - you off the coach. All the more so, I'd think, if we're talking about a family business.

can't wait to see what the excuse will be once kobe is gone.

Clearly you feel like you've seen screw up after screw up, but I always feel like I should remind people that the Lakers acquiring Paul and Howard were really impressive moves and it really doesn't make sense at that stage to look at it as "the Dr. Buss era". The struggles really began when the new Lakers Reload attempt just didn't work out there on the court, which in retrospect it's pretty clear it was about the players not being what we'd hoped they were in many different ways.

I'm not saying that any of this excuses the mistakes I see from Lakers brass after that, and I definitely do see the Jimmy era as one bad swing away from a strike out, but the reality is this point there's so much about the team's future development none of us know about. If it goes well, everyone's going to think it was silly that people were advocating a clean of house.

Mitch is a cap expert and was so dominant as a GM that the league had to step in and put a stop to it. No other GM can say that. Firing him would be a massive mistake. He was groomed under Jerry West and has actual NBA pedigree. Jim Buss is the one that is completely useless. If he took 6 months off for paternity leave no one would even notice. He has no basketball pedigree whatsoever other than coming from the sperm of the greatest owner in all of sports.

As Slava said, Jimbob can get the boot and Kupchak should stay along with promoting Ryan West.

laploutocratie wrote:Does Jeanie really have overriding powers over Jim Buss enough to do that?

Obviously, She can't take away her brother's ownership claim but the firing would have nothing to do with that. She is his boss in terms of how the hierarchy is set up. Having said that, i'm not comfortable at all having Jeanie making any decisions regarding the team, but that's another matter entirely.