Can The Bucks Get "IT" Back?

[dkb33]

I never really felt they had "it" to begin with. That one season, if memory serves correctly, was the weakest I had ever seen the eastern conference in terms of competition but now that the east is growing stronger, they can no longer take advantage of that.

They can compete to scrape into the playoffs but I don't see them doing anything special.

Giannis - 22
Parker - 21
Middleton - 24
Monroe - 25
MCW - 25
Henson - 26
Maker - 19?
Delly - 25

That is an insanely young and talented core that has plenty of potential to grow into their roles.

JV - 24
Powell 23
Sullinger - 24
Ross - 25
DeRozan - 26
Wright - 23
Bebe -23
Jakob - 20
Joseph - 24
Siakim - 22
Cabloco -20
Van Vleet - 22

Power in number. The Raptors do have an extemly young team though it is kind of crazy. As of now all 12 of those guys would be on the 15 man Roster.The only other 3 guys are Patterson at 27, Carroll at 29 and Lowry at 30.

[Kswiss]

I feel like bucks are a really polarizing team because a lot of people like to circlejerk about how great Giannis is and how bad Monroe is.

Facts are Monroe led the bucks in Win Shares, PER, and was 2nd in On/Off Performance. He has his flaws - he's not an elite defensive center, but holy hell it's ridiculous how much centers with an offensive game are hated on because they aren't an elite 2-way player.

Everyone loves Giannis, but nobody ever looks at how he hurts the bucks. He's a terrible outside threat shooting an abysmal 25% from 3. He also didn't shoot above 35% from any range past 5 feet. Let me say that again. He shot 35% or less for every range past 5 feet.

On the other end of the floor while defending past 15 feet opponents shot 2.4% better when defended by him. When guarding the 3 point shot, opponents shot 3.8% better. However, he is an elite interior defender with his long arms, opponents shoot 8% worse in the paint when defended by him.

With this being said, Bucks have a chance to be great - but they need to figure out their outside shooting if they want to succeed. It's just so disappointing seeing so many people say "omg, Giannis is going to be the best" and "Monroe is dragging the whole team down". Open your eyes, look at the good and bad of both players and how the team is constructed. Yeah, the team is long - too bad most of their players have critical flaws while their strengths, at this point time, don't compliment each other. I will say they're lucky they got MIddleton locked up - he's a huge key to their success when they do have it.

You clearly have never played basketball at a high level to suggest such things. The entire role of bigs in basketball is to protect the rim, get rebounds and finish in the paint. A big who can't play defense and rebound is just a slow shooting guard who can't shoot. Post game is a nice bonus for a defensive center but an offensive center with no defense is farrrr worse than a defensive stud with no post game. And this is why the Monroes and Kanters of the world get hated on. Guards are inherently more skilled at putting the ball through the net, and only one guy can shoot per possession so no-defense, no-heart bigs who aren't even that offensively dominant really have no place in basketball in this day and age.

[Scalabrine]

Can anyone speak on why Jabari barely takes any 3's? He seems like a better shooter than someone who took 35 all of last year.

He was literally instructed by Kidd not to shoot 3s, much like Giannis was in his 2nd year. Something about developing their inside games. He said he's done with that and will let them loose next year.

I think people are going to be surprised at good a shooter Jabari ends up being. Not only was he a 20 year old coming off an ACL injury but he was told by his coach not to shoot from range. But he has great form and touch on his shot and shooting was never really a problem in high school or college for him, he'll be good going forward.

then jason kidd is clearly not fit to be an nba coach in the modern game since you need to be able to shoot the 3 (even if he couldn't for most of his career)

So Doc Rivers telling DeAndre Jordan not to shoot 3's must be a fireable offense too?

If the guy isn't an efficient 3 point shooter than the team is better off with him taking shots the he is more likely to make, or else go with someone who is a more efficient 3 point shooter. Don't take a shot that you are more likely to miss.

[76ciology]

I feel like bucks are a really polarizing team because a lot of people like to circlejerk about how great Giannis is and how bad Monroe is.

Facts are Monroe led the bucks in Win Shares, PER, and was 2nd in On/Off Performance. He has his flaws - he's not an elite defensive center, but holy hell it's ridiculous how much centers with an offensive game are hated on because they aren't an elite 2-way player.

Everyone loves Giannis, but nobody ever looks at how he hurts the bucks. He's a terrible outside threat shooting an abysmal 25% from 3. He also didn't shoot above 35% from any range past 5 feet. Let me say that again. He shot 35% or less for every range past 5 feet.

On the other end of the floor while defending past 15 feet opponents shot 2.4% better when defended by him. When guarding the 3 point shot, opponents shot 3.8% better. However, he is an elite interior defender with his long arms, opponents shoot 8% worse in the paint when defended by him.

With this being said, Bucks have a chance to be great - but they need to figure out their outside shooting if they want to succeed. It's just so disappointing seeing so many people say "omg, Giannis is going to be the best" and "Monroe is dragging the whole team down". Open your eyes, look at the good and bad of both players and how the team is constructed. Yeah, the team is long - too bad most of their players have critical flaws while their strengths, at this point time, don't compliment each other. I will say they're lucky they got MIddleton locked up - he's a huge key to their success when they do have it.

You clearly have never played basketball at a high level to suggest such things. The entire role of bigs in basketball is to protect the rim, get rebounds and finish in the paint. A big who can't play defense and rebound is just a slow shooting guard who can't shoot. Post game is a nice bonus for a defensive center but an offensive center with no defense is farrrr worse than a defensive stud with no post game. And this is why the Monroes and Kanters of the world get hated on. Guards are inherently more skilled at putting the ball through the net, and only one guy can shoot per possession so no-defense, no-heart bigs who aren't even that offensively dominant really have no place in basketball in this day and age.

That's the common notion. But if you look at the numbers, Monroe is not a defensive liability and nowhere near Kanter on defense (actually the 2nd to 4th best defensive player on the team based on DRTG and DBPM). He's just not a defensive anchor to compensate for Jabari and Middleton's defense.

While teams like the Hawks, Cavs and Spurs (duncan only played 60g @ 25mpg; 1.3bpg) were able to be elite defensive teams without a great shotblocking C. Defense nowadays isn't anchored at the C position, it's a positionless and collective effort that is heavy on switching and defensive rotations. Wings should be able to protect the rim while bigs should be able to be mobile not to be a liability in defending perimeter players.

[TheDavinciCHODE]

They need a legit defensive center that can protect the rim and get rebounds, not a post scorer.

Then they need to give Giannis the ball and the keys to the offense. Surround him with capable shooters and let Jabari be a scorer.

The potential for the team is sky-high with Giannis, Jabari, and Middleton being a young and talented trio. Maker is a wildcard...

Giannis is best with the ball in his hands. His inability to shoot makes putting him off the ball detrimental to the team. Make him the key playmaker, and everyone else needs to feed off of him.

The Bucks from two seasons ago overachieved because of their defense....opp pts per game were 8th in the league and their def rtg was 4th...

Bringing in Monroe and trying to change the identity of the team screwed the pooch. They need to get some semblance of their defensive grit back, and let Giannis do his thing on offense. If they can be top 10 in defense and middle of the pack on offense, then this team will easily make the playoffs.

But where can they find a center that fits the bill?

[TheDavinciCHODE]

Trade idea.....

think there is any chance that the Bucks would want to trade for Robin Lopez? They'd have to pay Chicago to dump Monroe on them...

Maybe a deal centered around Monroe and a future first?

Would that be enough for you?

[sixerswillrule]

Can anyone speak on why Jabari barely takes any 3's? He seems like a better shooter than someone who took 35 all of last year.

He was literally instructed by Kidd not to shoot 3s, much like Giannis was in his 2nd year. Something about developing their inside games. He said he's done with that and will let them loose next year.

I think people are going to be surprised at good a shooter Jabari ends up being. Not only was he a 20 year old coming off an ACL injury but he was told by his coach not to shoot from range. But he has great form and touch on his shot and shooting was never really a problem in high school or college for him, he'll be good going forward.

What happened to his mid-range shot?

[LUKE23]

Bucks have the best U25 core in the East, IMO, but their fit last year was terrible. They still need to get rid of Monroe, but the adds this offseason (Delly, Telly, Plumlee, Maker, Brogdon) fit very will with their core 3, as they stress defense, three point shooting, and strong chemistry guys. Move MCW to a bench reserve role, turn Monroe into a serviceable backup SG/SF via trade, and they have a really nice top 9. How far they go will depend on AMP.

[GoldenAntlers]

He was literally instructed by Kidd not to shoot 3s, much like Giannis was in his 2nd year. Something about developing their inside games. He said he's done with that and will let them loose next year.

I think people are going to be surprised at good a shooter Jabari ends up being. Not only was he a 20 year old coming off an ACL injury but he was told by his coach not to shoot from range. But he has great form and touch on his shot and shooting was never really a problem in high school or college for him, he'll be good going forward.

then jason kidd is clearly not fit to be an nba coach in the modern game since you need to be able to shoot the 3 (even if he couldn't for most of his career)

I'm torn, one on hand it did delay their shooting development, but on the other hand there's been a massive improvement in both of their development as inside players. Jabari is turning into a monster finisher around the basket, and Giannis has made huge strides in his handles, footwork in the paint, post game, etc. Forcing them to develop their attacking game early on will prove to be beneficial.

They're going to improve as jumpshooters in time imo, both have good form and are relentless workers, they'll get there. Jabari I'm almost 100% confident will, Giannis less sure but he won't be a liability or anything, and at PF it won't be that huge a deal anyways.

Same can be said for Middleton's growth. Remember early season when we were all yelling at him for so many iso's. Now we have a legit core 3. Kidd knows what he is doing as far as development goes, even if it looks ugly.

[165bows]

I liked the minor additions they made this offseason but they weren't good last year. Basketball reference had them fifth worst last year based on margin of victory and strength of schedule.

They might improve a tad but still not going to be good. So if by IT we mean fringe playoff team I'd say no.

[JonFromVA]

While teams like the Hawks, Cavs and Spurs (duncan only played 60g @ 25mpg; 1.3bpg) were able to be elite defensive teams without a great shotblocking C. Defense nowadays isn't anchored at the C position, it's a positionless and collective effort that is heavy on switching and defensive rotations. Wings should be able to protect the rim while bigs should be able to be mobile not to be a liability in defending perimeter players.

It really depends on defensive scheme and opponent, but I suspect if you look at the numbers it would still hold true that the C is around the rim the most and ends up with the most opportunities to defend it.

Speaking for the Cavs, they definitely lost something on D due to Mozgov's ineffectiveness. Having the option to use a rim protector AND a big who can switch every P&R and defend out to the perimeter is better than having just one of those.

Warrior's fans will tell you they lost something as well when Bogut went down in the Finals, even though their best lineup features a 6'7" player at C.

[UWM_Brew_Buck]

I think the window of potential wins this year is quite large I think they could win anywhere from 30-48. It all depends on how much/if Giannis/Jabari/Middleton improve while becoming the focal point of the franchise. As a Bucks fan I don't really care too much about wins, just want to keep seeing improvement of the young core. After the all-star break they were "unleashed" and they performed as good as you could hope for for their age.

Also our defensive schemes were absolutely horrible last year and to prove his worth Kidd needs to fix it this year.

[Q C]

in 5 years when this is common knowledge remember where you heard it first: Jason Kidd is not NBA head coach material

[MGB8]

The Bucks roster has a few problems.

Giannis is more a point-forward than a point-guard. He can't get anywhere he wants with this dribble if tightly guarded. Contrast to Ben Simmons, who has greater ability to get to spots on the court with a tighter handle and quicker feet on offense.

Delly is a nice get, but a downgrade from Bayless as a combo guard, still lacking true PG ability to create shots for others by penetrating a defense.

Monroe is fine off the bench, but doesn't fit as a starter unless Thon Maker or John Henson develop outside shots.

Jabari Parker is a serious defensive liability, and probably would be best served as a 6th man combo forward - but that would leave the Bucks really lacking in scoring prowess in their starting unit.

MCW is better than his reputation, with real PG skills, but his lack of shooting consistency really makes him a poor fit with the Bucks roster.

Bucks need to decide whether Giannis is primarily a 3 or a 4 both on offense and defense (in either case being a point forward to run a lot of fast breaks and some half court offense). I'd probably have him primarily at the 3. Then find a decent 4 with range (Teletovic could be that guy, although defensive weakness), hope Hanson or Maker can become a Tyson Chandler in his prime type at the center spot, and find a legit upper tier PG in the Jeff Teague or Eric Bledsoe mold.

It's funny, because Brandon Knight, who they dumped, would really be perfect for them...

[Magic Giannison]

I feel like bucks are a really polarizing team because a lot of people like to circlejerk about how great Giannis is and how bad Monroe is.

Facts are Monroe led the bucks in Win Shares, PER, and was 2nd in On/Off Performance. He has his flaws - he's not an elite defensive center, but holy hell it's ridiculous how much centers with an offensive game are hated on because they aren't an elite 2-way player.

Everyone loves Giannis, but nobody ever looks at how he hurts the bucks. He's a terrible outside threat shooting an abysmal 25% from 3. He also didn't shoot above 35% from any range past 5 feet. Let me say that again. He shot 35% or less for every range past 5 feet.

On the other end of the floor while defending past 15 feet opponents shot 2.4% better when defended by him. When guarding the 3 point shot, opponents shot 3.8% better. However, he is an elite interior defender with his long arms, opponents shoot 8% worse in the paint when defended by him.

With this being said, Bucks have a chance to be great - but they need to figure out their outside shooting if they want to succeed. It's just so disappointing seeing so many people say "omg, Giannis is going to be the best" and "Monroe is dragging the whole team down". Open your eyes, look at the good and bad of both players and how the team is constructed. Yeah, the team is long - too bad most of their players have critical flaws while their strengths, at this point time, don't compliment each other. I will say they're lucky they got MIddleton locked up - he's a huge key to their success when they do have it.

Holy cow how wrong you're about this.
Not only Giannis had an FG% of 51 but you totally ignore that the reason why his defensive stats dropped are mainly because he was the only one actually running from a position to another trying to cover everything.
A guard that stays still and lets a guy shoot is not better than another that tries to stop but fails in doing so, the stats are extremely unreliable when it comes to that.
Giannis not being able to shoot doesnt make him responsible for the whole bench sucking balls and being injured. Giannis played in most positions both on defense and offense, he got the most minutes played on the team.
Giannis shot a respectful 36% from 16 feet and 69 from close. Guess what, his most FGs are from 0-3 feet and 16 feet and he did well on both these.

Its nice and all jumping in the wagon of calling him overrated but at least make it more credible for people that watch him all year long.


Giannis was the best player of the team and there is no denying about it.

[Devilzsidewalk]

Weird title. Also thought thread was about Isaiah Thomas.

I thought it was about Leo Tolstoy's son Ilya Tolstoy and I was all "hey that doesn't even make sense, he has no known affiliation w/ the Milwaukee Bucks"

[blitz41]

That's the common notion. But if you look at the numbers, Monroe is not a defensive liability and nowhere near Kanter on defense (actually the 2nd to 4th best defensive player on the team based on DRTG and DBPM). He's just not a defensive anchor to compensate for Jabari and Middleton's defense.

While teams like the Hawks, Cavs and Spurs (duncan only played 60g @ 25mpg; 1.3bpg) were able to be elite defensive teams without a great shotblocking C. Defense nowadays isn't anchored at the C position, it's a positionless and collective effort that is heavy on switching and defensive rotations. Wings should be able to protect the rim while bigs should be able to be mobile not to be a liability in defending perimeter players.

Yea, even with the moves away from more traditional post centres to defensive specialists, theres only a handful in the league, and already teams are finding you cant have a black hole offensively (special exemption for passing big men) at C. If you want to win in the NBA you cant have more than 1 "perimeter" player who is a defensive liability. Everything now is about versatility.

[ReasonablySober]

Repeat after me:

"Jabari Parker is the Bucks' small forward. Giannis is the Bucks' power forward."
"Jabari Parker is the Bucks' small forward. Giannis is the Bucks' power forward."
"Jabari Parker is the Bucks' small forward. Giannis is the Bucks' power forward."
"Jabari Parker is the Bucks' small forward. Giannis is the Bucks' power forward."
"Jabari Parker is the Bucks' small forward. Giannis is the Bucks' power forward."
"Jabari Parker is the Bucks' small forward. Giannis is the Bucks' power forward."
"Jabari Parker is the Bucks' small forward. Giannis is the Bucks' power forward."
"Jabari Parker is the Bucks' small forward. Giannis is the Bucks' power forward."
"Jabari Parker is the Bucks' small forward. Giannis is the Bucks' powe

[AussieBuck]

That Monroe/Parker front court pairing is a disaster.

Monroe won't be on the team and Parker is the SF.

[OrangeBlueSkies]

I really don't see how not... while I know the Wizards were a disappointment, in my eyes the Bucks were the biggest disappointment last season...