Honest Question: If you're not a fan of GSW or Cleveland, what's the point of the upcoming season?

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Re: Honest Question: If you're not a fan of GSW or Cleveland, what's the point of the upcoming season? 

Post#41 » by tayottt » Wed Aug 24, 2016 4:39 pm

pantalones wrote:So watching the Olympics and FIBA officials made me even more convinced that the NBA is much more of an entertainment product than a true sporting competition. The NBA players on Team USA were utterly shocked when traveling was actually called against them and barreling into a defender with the ball tucked under your wing like a fullback at the 1 yard line was not called a defensive foul; in other words, the calls were actually called as written, regardless of who was committing them and/or playing defense. The NBA has sold "superstar players" as their major brand identity for so long now, that we as fans just accept it; often times we hear, "he's a rookie, he has to earn that call", or "their not gonna call that on him, he's a superstar", why is this acceptable? Why do we as fans put up with this? For all intents and purposes the NBA is WWE with a ball and we just blindly go along with it. It's over 9 months before the playoffs and I can see with almost certainty that it will be GSW and Cleveland in the finals, just as I said this time last year. We all know this because it's what we expect of the NBA, selling, marketing and promoting the teams with the superstars, via officials making subtle, and sometimes not so subtle calls that will favor the superstar teams. last year the 4 division winners in the NFL were not the division winners the year before, due in large part to the NFL actually selling the product on the field and not the superstars inside the jerseys.

Before every MLB, NHL or NFL season fans of almost every team can say, "this may be the year" and they could be right, in the NBA no such hope exists. If you're a fan of Charlotte or Denver, or Indiana, your team has no chance whatsoever of being in the finals in your lifetime, unless they acquire a marketable superstar. So what's the point, honestly? if we say, "because we love basketball", I ask you, is this really basketball? I would argue again, it's more WWE with a ball.


I disagree with this premise. We all hear about "superstar calls" and the like, but I don't believe games are rigged or officiated in a way that only benefits the best players. Generally speaking the best players and teams win. Otherwise, why would the Pistons and Spurs do so well in the early/mid 00's? Those were grind it out, small market teams that were not exactly pleasant to watch and they often won against the more aesthetically pleasing, "star-driven" teams.

There has only been once in my life when I thought officiating actually tarnished a series.. That was Lakers/Kings in 2002. Since Donaghy left, I've had little doubt about officiating. There is so much oversight within the league and from die hard fans that it would be really hard to job a team in a high leverage game without getting killed for it.

I think it's mostly immature fans that complain about calls. Of course officials get plenty of things wrong, but Lebron making 6 straight finals is not a fluke. What the Spurs/Warriors have done isn't a fluke. Cream rises to the top.

As far as motivations to watch this season.... I just love basketball.

I'm fairly confident that we will see Cavs/Warriors III, but nothing is given. Who would've thought the Warriors would lose after being up 3-1?

Beyond that, I'm not a ring or bust fan. The journey is pleasant for me. Seeing Guys like PORZINGIS, Towns, Jokic, Simmons, and others grow is fun for me. Watching the Knicks, Bucks, Celtics, Pistons,Jazz, and other interesting non contenders will be fun.

You can quit watching games if you want, but acting as though the NBA is rigged irritates me.
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Re: Honest Question: If you're not a fan of GSW or Cleveland, what's the point of the upcoming season? 

Post#42 » by -Sammy- » Wed Aug 24, 2016 4:40 pm

There are several reasons to be frustrated with the NBA-- the way it's currently officiated and the presentation protocols all the networks seem to have adopted are my two biggest issues--, but in spite of them, I'm still watching the world's best athletes and best basketball players, being coached by the world's best coaches, to play my favorite sport; those facts cover a multitude of sins.

I'm a basketball fan first, an NBA fan second, and a Spurs fan third; like many, I'm frustrated by what's going on in Golden State, but there will be over 1200 games to watch this season, with implications not just for this season, but for the future. Besides all that, NOTHING is a sure thing; as the saying goes, that's why they play the games.
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Re: Honest Question: If you're not a fan of GSW or Cleveland, what's the point of the upcoming season? 

Post#43 » by pantalones » Wed Aug 24, 2016 4:41 pm

MalVicious wrote:As a Knicks fan, I really wanna see how Porzingis progresses and I gotta admit its gonna be exciting as **** to watch the Knicks roster out on the floor


And then Porzy plays his heart out, rips down a rebound and goes up for the put back to beat the Cavs at the buzzer and is called for an over the back foul, when it was obvious that there was no foul, how will you react?
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Re: Honest Question: If you're not a fan of GSW or Cleveland, what's the point of the upcoming season? 

Post#44 » by JellosJigglin » Wed Aug 24, 2016 4:42 pm

I get what OP is saying. I used to be an NBA fan but now I pretty much only watch because I'm a fan of a team. The league isn't what it once was. Certain rules are enforced less than others for the sake of entertainment. My interest in the league outside of my favorite team has disintegrated, and I almost never watch games that my team isn't playing in, even in the post season. I'm not really bothered by it. Plenty of better things to do with my time.
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Re: Honest Question: If you're not a fan of GSW or Cleveland, what's the point of the upcoming season? 

Post#45 » by pantalones » Wed Aug 24, 2016 4:57 pm

tayottt wrote:
pantalones wrote:So watching the Olympics and FIBA officials made me even more convinced that the NBA is much more of an entertainment product than a true sporting competition. The NBA players on Team USA were utterly shocked when traveling was actually called against them and barreling into a defender with the ball tucked under your wing like a fullback at the 1 yard line was not called a defensive foul; in other words, the calls were actually called as written, regardless of who was committing them and/or playing defense. The NBA has sold "superstar players" as their major brand identity for so long now, that we as fans just accept it; often times we hear, "he's a rookie, he has to earn that call", or "their not gonna call that on him, he's a superstar", why is this acceptable? Why do we as fans put up with this? For all intents and purposes the NBA is WWE with a ball and we just blindly go along with it. It's over 9 months before the playoffs and I can see with almost certainty that it will be GSW and Cleveland in the finals, just as I said this time last year. We all know this because it's what we expect of the NBA, selling, marketing and promoting the teams with the superstars, via officials making subtle, and sometimes not so subtle calls that will favor the superstar teams. last year the 4 division winners in the NFL were not the division winners the year before, due in large part to the NFL actually selling the product on the field and not the superstars inside the jerseys.

Before every MLB, NHL or NFL season fans of almost every team can say, "this may be the year" and they could be right, in the NBA no such hope exists. If you're a fan of Charlotte or Denver, or Indiana, your team has no chance whatsoever of being in the finals in your lifetime, unless they acquire a marketable superstar. So what's the point, honestly? if we say, "because we love basketball", I ask you, is this really basketball? I would argue again, it's more WWE with a ball.


I disagree with this premise. We all hear about "superstar calls" and the like, but I don't believe games are rigged or officiated in a way that only benefits the best players. Generally speaking the best players and teams win. Otherwise, why would the Pistons and Spurs do so well in the early/mid 00's? Isiah Thomas, Dennis Rodman, Tim Duncan, Tony Parker, David Robinson; marketable superstars. Those were grind it out, small market teams that were not exactly pleasant to watch and they often won against the more aesthetically pleasing, "star-driven" teams.

There has only been once in my life when I thought officiating actually tarnished a series.. That was Lakers/Kings in 2002. Since Donaghy left, I've had little doubt about officiating. There is so much oversight within the league and from die hard fans that it would be really hard to job a team in a high leverage game without getting killed for it.

I think it's mostly immature fans that complain about calls. Of course officials get plenty of things wrong, but Lebron making 6 straight finals is not a fluke. What the Spurs/Warriors have done isn't a fluke. Cream rises to the top.

As far as motivations to watch this season.... I just love basketball.

I'm fairly confident that we will see Cavs/Warriors III, but nothing is given. Who would've thought the Warriors would lose after being up 3-1?

Beyond that, I'm not a ring or bust fan. The journey is pleasant for me. Seeing Guys like PORZINGIS, Towns, Jokic, Simmons, and others grow is fun for me. Watching the Knicks, Bucks, Celtics, Pistons,Jazz, and other interesting non contenders will be fun.

You can quit watching games if you want, but acting as though the NBA is rigged irritates me.
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Re: Honest Question: If you're not a fan of GSW or Cleveland, what's the point of the upcoming season? 

Post#46 » by pantalones » Wed Aug 24, 2016 5:01 pm

JellosJigglin wrote:I get what OP is saying. I used to be an NBA fan but now I pretty much only watch because I'm a fan of a team. The league isn't what it once was. Certain rules are enforced less than others for the sake of entertainment. My interest in the league outside of my favorite team has disintegrated, and I almost never watch games that my team isn't playing in, even in the post season. I'm not really bothered by it. Plenty of better things to do with my time.


I've been watching for over 35 years, I remember as a kid in Mortons Department store watching the Pistons and Celtics and Bird stole the ball and the announcer went nuts and I was jumping up and down as a little kid. Watching the Olympics really cemented my feelings about the NBA, every time a Team USA player traveled or fouled, or didn't get a superstar call, they had stank face because they were utterly shocked that they were treated like everyone else. In the NBA they're so used to either getting superstar calls that it shocks them to the core when it's called on them. The fact that we as fans accept this so nonchalantly is why they do it and get away with it. It's on us.
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Re: Honest Question: If you're not a fan of GSW or Cleveland, what's the point of the upcoming season? 

Post#47 » by Hornet Mania » Wed Aug 24, 2016 5:05 pm

Remember when everyone thought Miami was going to just roll the entire league on the way to a dynasty, then Dallas and Dirk came out of nowhere and inexplicably won the title after everyone assumed their championship window had already closed?

Stuff like that is why. You never know in sports, even the NBA. Upsets are rare but not unprecedented, even against super teams and even against legendary players like Lebron.
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Re: Honest Question: If you're not a fan of GSW or Cleveland, what's the point of the upcoming season? 

Post#48 » by Skin » Wed Aug 24, 2016 5:05 pm

The Orlando Magic are going to win the Championship, so I'm excited about that.
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Re: Honest Question: If you're not a fan of GSW or Cleveland, what's the point of the upcoming season? 

Post#49 » by bmurph128 » Wed Aug 24, 2016 5:18 pm

pantalones wrote:
jswede wrote:
bmurph128 wrote:When LeBron left Cleveland the first time and we drafted Kyrie, I watched to watch him play.

I imagine fans of other teams will feel the same. The Raptors never really had a chance to beat the Cavs last year...but for Raptors fans that was the most exciting basketball season they've ever had. It's not always about the end result...the journey can be very enjoyable too.

Most NBA stars grow into themselves. When Curry and Kawhi first came into the league, how many people really thought they'd be top 5 players? Not many.

Wouldn't you want to watch to see if you have the next Steph Curry or Kawhi on your team? (in terms of development)


Me too. I renewed my nba game pass subscription for each of those 4 years. I do the same w the browns and they haven't been in contention forever. It's about setting improvement and looking forward to the future.


But that's my point, in the NBA, it never comes (unless you somehow land a marketable superstar).



The very state of the current NBA disagrees with you - how long have the Cavs and Warriors been powerhouses? And for how long before that were they irrelevant in the landscape of the NBA?

Even though LeBron has made the finals 6 times, 5 different teams have won the title of those 6 years - that tells you there's more parity in today's NBA than there was in the 80s/90s/2000s.
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Re: Honest Question: If you're not a fan of GSW or Cleveland, what's the point of the upcoming season? 

Post#50 » by SelfishPlayer » Wed Aug 24, 2016 5:24 pm

GSW will not be in the Finals. Watching that materialize will be exciting, kind of like how the Heat initially struggled with Lebron.
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Re: Honest Question: If you're not a fan of GSW or Cleveland, what's the point of the upcoming season? 

Post#51 » by Prez » Wed Aug 24, 2016 5:28 pm

Because my favorite team is extremely young, and watching young players develop potentially into stars is a really gratifying experience as a fan, especially when they're on your favorite team. They might not pan out...stuff happens. But so far the process of watching Giannis, Jabari, Middleton, etc grow as players has been really fun and really promising. GS/Cleveland aren't going to be at the top forever, at some point teams like Minny, Philly, Milwaukee, Denver, LA, etc will start to take over. Watching them grow into that from the ground up is pretty interesting.
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Re: Honest Question: If you're not a fan of GSW or Cleveland, what's the point of the upcoming season? 

Post#52 » by Patches Perry » Wed Aug 24, 2016 5:35 pm

I don't get it. If it's fixed, then how do we know Golden State and Cleveland will be in the finals? You're assuming that they will be based on talent level, but if results are based on talent level, then it's not fixed.
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Re: Honest Question: If you're not a fan of GSW or Cleveland, what's the point of the upcoming season? 

Post#53 » by pantalones » Wed Aug 24, 2016 5:46 pm

bmurph128 wrote:
pantalones wrote:
jswede wrote:
Me too. I renewed my nba game pass subscription for each of those 4 years. I do the same w the browns and they haven't been in contention forever. It's about setting improvement and looking forward to the future.


But that's my point, in the NBA, it never comes (unless you somehow land a marketable superstar).



The very state of the current NBA disagrees with you - how long have the Cavs and Warriors been powerhouses? And for how long before that were they irrelevant in the landscape of the NBA?

Even though LeBron has made the finals 6 times, 5 different teams have won the title of those 6 years - that tells you there's more parity in today's NBA than there was in the 80s/90s/2000s.


As long as they've had superstars. I don't understand your point. The NBA doesn't sell and market it's product like the other sports do, they market and sell and by default, officiate to their superstars.
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Re: Honest Question: If you're not a fan of GSW or Cleveland, what's the point of the upcoming season? 

Post#54 » by HotelVitale » Wed Aug 24, 2016 5:48 pm

OP's gotta relax. The rules are a little differently enforced in the NBA than FIBA but that's it--it's just a slightly different game which favors athleticism and open-court skills a little more. You can still be really good without great athleticism and it's not like defense and craftiness matter less because it's harder to get charges and travels called. It's still a sport and a competition even if the rules are a bit different.

To answer the question, though: If I lived in some small country without much internet access and they had a basketball league, I'd probably follow that. I really like watching creative players, following the stupid side stories, watching the growth of young players, having something to look at while working out, having fun with friends at games (exceptionally cheap here in PHL). I actually love following the game more living in Philly than I did when I lived in Michigan during the Pistons' great teams.
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Re: Honest Question: If you're not a fan of GSW or Cleveland, what's the point of the upcoming season? 

Post#55 » by pantalones » Wed Aug 24, 2016 5:48 pm

Patches Perry wrote:I don't get it. If it's fixed, then how do we know Golden State and Cleveland will be in the finals? You're assuming that they will be based on talent level, but if results are based on talent level, then it's not fixed.


You're missing the point. I live in Greenville, SC, a little over an hour south of Charlotte; everyone thought for sure that the Panthers would win the Super Bowl. In the NBA, these types of upsets do not happen, because the league has an agenda and a narrative that they follow; promote superstars; period. Do you accept superstar calls? if so, why?
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Re: Honest Question: If you're not a fan of GSW or Cleveland, what's the point of the upcoming season? 

Post#56 » by yosemiteben » Wed Aug 24, 2016 5:51 pm

pantalones wrote:For all intents and purposes the NBA is WWE with a ball and we just blindly go along with it.

Total bull. There is a big difference between lack of parity and a lack of actual competition. If you genuinely the NBA is scripted / outcomes are predetermined by something other than the talent discrepancy between the teams, then I don't understand why you would care about the NBA even if you are a GSW or CLE fan.

pantalones wrote:In the NBA, these types of upsets do not happen, because the league has an agenda and a narrative that they follow...

This is just terrible logic. Does the NBA's agenda entail supporting teams with superior talent?
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Re: Honest Question: If you're not a fan of GSW or Cleveland, what's the point of the upcoming season? 

Post#57 » by Andre Roberstan » Wed Aug 24, 2016 5:52 pm

pantalones wrote:Do you accept superstar calls? if so, why?


Have you reffed before? Genuine question, not being snarky.
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Re: Honest Question: If you're not a fan of GSW or Cleveland, what's the point of the upcoming season? 

Post#58 » by bmurph128 » Wed Aug 24, 2016 5:58 pm

pantalones wrote:
bmurph128 wrote:
pantalones wrote:
But that's my point, in the NBA, it never comes (unless you somehow land a marketable superstar).



The very state of the current NBA disagrees with you - how long have the Cavs and Warriors been powerhouses? And for how long before that were they irrelevant in the landscape of the NBA?

Even though LeBron has made the finals 6 times, 5 different teams have won the title of those 6 years - that tells you there's more parity in today's NBA than there was in the 80s/90s/2000s.


As long as they've had superstars. I don't understand your point. The NBA doesn't sell and market it's product like the other sports do, they market and sell and by default, officiate to their superstars.



My point is that there is more of a "point" in watching this upcoming season than there was 20 years ago.

And I disagree with your assessment of the NBA today. Sure, the officiating could improve. But LeBron hasn't been getting superstar calls for a while now...the NBA is nowhere near the WWE.
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Re: Honest Question: If you're not a fan of GSW or Cleveland, what's the point of the upcoming season? 

Post#59 » by Hardaway2step » Wed Aug 24, 2016 5:59 pm

The same point as any season that's ever been played... What a silly question :crazy:
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Re: Honest Question: If you're not a fan of GSW or Cleveland, what's the point of the upcoming season? 

Post#60 » by NO-KG-AI » Wed Aug 24, 2016 6:06 pm

I think watching a sport is about enjoying watching the sport. I never really got the concept that the sport is no good if your team isn't going to win the title.
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