2nd best player in the nba

[Phreak50]

Also Spurs are better with Kawhi off than on overall.

You may have just been responsible for the most laughable comment in RealGM history.

[The_Hater]

Terrible list of choices. Giannis, Davis and Paul are better than both Lowry and George. Giannis and Davis would both get votes for this.

[The_Hater]

Kawhi is the most overrated player in NBA for me.

Spurs without him:
2015-2016: 7-3
2016-2017: 4-0

Spurs opponents with Leonard: 108.0 ORTG
Spurs opponents without Leonard: 97.3 ORTG

Also Spurs are better with Kawhi off than on overall.

Kawhi is good, he is the perfect second option, but if you have him as a main guy you will never win a championship. He is blessed to have the GOAT coach. Spurs are good because Popovich.

He's averaging 25 efficient ppg as the first option on a 65+ win team and you don't think he's good enough to be a first option? That makes no sense.

[tcheco]

Kawhi is the most overrated player in NBA for me.

Spurs without him:
2015-2016: 7-3
2016-2017: 4-0

Spurs opponents with Leonard: 108.0 ORTG
Spurs opponents without Leonard: 97.3 ORTG

Also Spurs are better with Kawhi off than on overall.

Kawhi is good, he is the perfect second option, but if you have him as a main guy you will never win a championship. He is blessed to have the GOAT coach. Spurs are good because Popovich.

He's averaging 25 efficient ppg as the first option on a 65+ win team and you don't think he's good enough to be a first option? That makes no sense.

Don't come here with your goddamn good arguments here, this is realgm, next thing you know you'll be saying he is the best player guarding Lebron

[Duke4life831]

Kawhi is the most overrated player in NBA for me.

Spurs without him:
2015-2016: 7-3
2016-2017: 4-0

Spurs opponents with Leonard: 108.0 ORTG
Spurs opponents without Leonard: 97.3 ORTG

Also Spurs are better with Kawhi off than on overall.

Kawhi is good, he is the perfect second option, but if you have him as a main guy you will never win a championship. He is blessed to have the GOAT coach. Spurs are good because Popovich.

And this is a perfect case of when numbers lie.

[3Diamantidis]

Lebron James.
James Harden has surpassed everybody this season(and he's making me eat crow for believing that he would never be something more than an empty stats player)
Although i'll still go with westbrook for MVP.
Many choices, many awesome players.
Golden era vol.2 after the '90s

[Chinook]

Kawhi is the most overrated player in NBA for me.

Spurs without him:
2015-2016: 7-3
2016-2017: 4-0

Spurs opponents with Leonard: 108.0 ORTG
Spurs opponents without Leonard: 97.3 ORTG

Also Spurs are better with Kawhi off than on overall.

Kawhi is good, he is the perfect second option, but if you have him as a main guy you will never win a championship. He is blessed to have the GOAT coach. Spurs are good because Popovich.

The only defensive flaw he has is that he's in a lineup with a lot of awful defenders most of the time.

That's not a fair excuse, as a) the Spurs have great defensive personnel and an even better defensive philosophy and b) those guys rate just fine without him.

[Duke4life831]

If im rating my top 5 im going

1. Lebron
2. KD
3. Kawhi
4. Curry
5. Harden

[Chinook]

Generally, though, Lebron is so much better than everyone else still that it's scary. I think the argument for second is completely subjective, but guys like Westbrook and Harden who are filling it up when they are allowed to dominate the ball are being overrated.

[The_Hater]

Lebron James.
James Harden has surpassed everybody this season(and he's making me eat crow for believing that he would never be something more than an empty stats player)
Although i'll still go with westbrook for MVP.
Many choices, many awesome players.
Golden era vol.2 after the '90s

I'm pretty certain thhe 80's are considered the golden era before the 90's. Bird, Magic and Kareem were done by the 90's. Jordan, Hakeem, Malone, Malone, Ewing, Erving, Barkley, Stockton, Thomas, Drexler and others all got going then.

[Simmons25]

LOL how is Lowry on this list.

[The_Hater]

Generally, though, Lebron is so much better than everyone else still that it's scary. I think the argument for second is completely subjective, but guys like Westbrook and Harden who are filling it up when they are allowed to dominate the ball are being overrated.

While I agree with your theory, it does inflate their numbers, but Houston and OKC are both exceeding all preseason expectations and the both deserve a majority of the credit for that.

[3Diamantidis]

George ain't better than giannis/butler/hayward.

[queridiculo]

There's no way I can get myself to vote for Durant over Harden or Westbrook given the guys he's surrounded by.

Harden and Westbrook are shouldering the offense on a nightly basis and more often than not anything but a good to great outing bogs down their teams considerably.

Heck, I'd rate Durant even behind Leonard, to me it's Lebron first, followed by Harden, Westbrook and Leonard.

[Chinook]

Generally, though, Lebron is so much better than everyone else still that it's scary. I think the argument for second is completely subjective, but guys like Westbrook and Harden who are filling it up when they are allowed to dominate the ball are being overrated.

While I agree with your theory, it does inflate their numbers, but Houston and OKC are both exceeding all preseason expectations and the both deserve a majority of the credit for that.

I think both are cases of the West being much, much worse than it has any right to be. After all, the Spurs are also exceeding their expectations. People on this very board thought they'd be on the same tier as Boston. Anyway, the Rockets and Thunder are both mediocre teams against those with winning records. I don't think they're nearly as good as they look superficially.

[The_Hater]

Generally, though, Lebron is so much better than everyone else still that it's scary. I think the argument for second is completely subjective, but guys like Westbrook and Harden who are filling it up when they are allowed to dominate the ball are being overrated.

While I agree with your theory, it does inflate their numbers, but Houston and OKC are both exceeding all preseason expectations and the both deserve a majority of the credit for that.

I think both are cases of the West being much, much worse than it has any right to be. After all, the Spurs are also exceeding their expectations. People on this very board thought they'd be on the same tier as Boston. Anyway, the Rockets and Thunder are both mediocre teams against those with winning records. I don't think they're nearly as good as they look superficially.

Isn't the west still stronger than the east? That doesn't seem like the right theory.

Even then it should also be noted that most of the league's top defenses reside in the west.

[The_Hater]

There's no way I can get myself to vote for Durant over Harden or Westbrook given the guys he's surrounded by.

Harden and Westbrook are shouldering the offense on a nightly basis and more often than not anything but a good to great outing bogs down their teams considerably.

Heck, I'd rate Durant even behind Leonard, to me it's Lebron first, followed by Harden, Westbrook and Leonard.

Durant was better than Westbrook every season they played together so if anything their current situations are inflating RW's value.

Durant has also proven to be an elite defender this season, he had RW and JH beat on that side of the ball too.

[Mr. E]

Generally, though, Lebron is so much better than everyone else still that it's scary. I think the argument for second is completely subjective, but guys like Westbrook and Harden who are filling it up when they are allowed to dominate the ball are being overrated.

While I agree with your theory, it does inflate their numbers, but Houston and OKC are both exceeding all preseason expectations and the both deserve a majority of the credit for that.

I think both are cases of the West being much, much worse than it has any right to be. After all, the Spurs are also exceeding their expectations. People on this very board thought they'd be on the same tier as Boston. Anyway, the Rockets and Thunder are both mediocre teams against those with winning records. I don't think they're nearly as good as they look superficially.

I think that you may be letting personal dislike of Houston or it's offensive system to taint your opinion. Houston has quality wins against the likes of San Antonio, Golden State, Toronto, etc. and the NBA hasn't exactly done them any favors with scheduling.

[Zen_Paradox]

Lebron
Harden
Westbrook
Durant
Kawhi

Side note: I highkey want to see Westbrook make a finals run like Lebron in 2007. Improbable, but what a fun debate that would be.

[Chinook]

Isn't the west still stronger than the east? That doesn't seem like the right theory.

Even then it should also be noted that most of the league's top defenses reside in the west.

The West is stronger than the East at the top, but it's a lot weaker than it should be, so teams who aren't horrible are sticking out. When it comes to playing other decent to good teams, Houston is mediocre and OKC is below .500. They both feasting on worse competition.

As I have said before, my perception of them will change if they perform in the playoffs. If Russ can beat a team without HCA, then I'll believe in him. As it is, I expect OKC to lose really badly. If Houston can get into the WCF and give GS or SA a series, I'll feel better about Harden. As of now, I think they'll struggle in the first two rounds and be completely outclassed if they make it to a third.