The Warriors reportedly think Russell Westbrook plays a style that's easy to guard

[StepBackCrack]

We?

Roberson was still there when Durant was there, and the strategy on Westbrook drives was the same then. 4 on 5, let Roberson shoot.

Warriors have great defenders at nearly every position so don't get me wrong. Saying Westbrook is easy to guard though is foolish without contextualizing the disrespect for Roberson and OKCs widely acknowledged lack of perimeter shooting. That will obviously have ill effects on a player who drives like Westbrook.

fan of Russ but that's not why. He has played with Kd/Ibaka hell even Kmart. Russ has just never been that efficient. They defended Lebron/Harden/Kawhi/Kd (when he was slashing more) same way. send a extra man if they get past their initial defender. Russ has just never been that good of a finisher at the rim (he makes up for it in volume) and average shooting. teams prefer he takes his pull up mid-range and live with the result.

His problems with GSW didn't start until 2014-2015. 2014-2015 is the season that:

Thunder started starting Andre Roberson, and he allowed teams to load up on Westbrook off the dribble
Warriors started starting Draymond Green, and he made them a truly elite defensive team

Warriors did the same to Durant. Didn't stop him from going off on the Warriors several times. But yeah, Roberson was a massive issue and contributed to Westbrook's and also Durant's struggles (he did struggle vs GSW but nowhere as much as Westbrook).

All that said, his struggles are because of GSW's elite D more than anything.

[dukes_wild]

You think a player shooting 20% from the field is meaningless?

Sure mean something to me if I were a coach.

Sure, but nobody shoots 20% in a whole season.

Don't over-exaggerate, the point is with how much 3pt rate has went up, many players can have a sub-40% FG but still be efficient if they shoot 3s over 33% on medium-high volume and make their FTs

The more 3PA a player takes, the lower his FG% will be, unless you're a generational talent like KD/Curry etc.

It's just an obsolete stat when it comes to judging a player's scoring efficiency, just like ERA is becoming an old man statistic for pitchers in baseball. Does it hold weight? Sure, but if a player shoots 10 field goal attempts, all 3s, makes 4 of them and has a 40% FG, and another player shoots 10 field goal attempts and makes 5 of them but they were all 2s, the 40% FG player is more efficient than the 50% FG player

Cool story, bro, but it's meaningless here, as Russ is a meh shooter from deep. FG% is actually a useful statistic when judging Russ; until this last year, his 2PT% and his eFG% were nearly identical on a year-by-year basis over his career.

Cool story, bro, but simple reading comprehension would tell you that I never even brought up Westbrook, I just made the point that FG% isn't that useful of a stat anymore due to the exponential increase in 3PA

And it kind of does apply to him, last season he increased his 3PA by 4 per 100 possessions, and with that, his FG% dropped from 45.5% to 42.5% yet his TS% was identical at 55.5%, another example that despite a seemingly low FG%, his efficiency was still just as good

[therealbig3]

It's something nobody will talk about, or they'll just give all the credit to Klay as if he's defending Westbrook 100% of the time, which just isn't true, but Curry defends Westbrook pretty well, and does a better job of slowing down Westbrook than Westbrook does Curry (in fact, Curry abuses Westbrook offensively).

I think Westbrook actually put up better numbers against Klay than he did Curry in the 2016 playoffs IIRC.

[therealbig3]

Whatever stats you want to use, it's pretty clear that Westbrook has problems against GS. Which isn't a knock on him, lots of players have problems against GS.

[Patches Perry]

It actually started earlier. bball reff. Russ was 52% Ts before that season. btw every team does this to stars including the guy next to Russ for those years. when they beat initial defender a close help come to deter if possible. They never defended Russ 2 on 1 outside the paint or doubled him.

In 2013-2014, he only played 2 games against GSW:
31 points - 69.8 TS% (loss)
34 points - 53.7 TS% (win)

In 2012-2013, he played 4 games against GSW:
30 points - 61.9 TS% (win)
10 points - 26.8 TS% (loss)
22 points - 48.8 TS% (blowout win)
18 points - 47.9 TS% (blowout win)

Obviously there are sample size issues here. 2 out of 6 games very efficient, 1 out of 6 about his average, 1 out of 6 very inefficient, and 2 out of 6 below average but also a blowout win so I'd need to review footage to see if some of those shots were taken carelessly. He doesn't guard percentages like other stars sometimes do, and even a few shots would drastically alter the number.

[Patches Perry]

Warriors did the same to Durant. Didn't stop him from going off on the Warriors several times. But yeah, Roberson was a massive issue and contributed to Westbrook's and also Durant's struggles (he did struggle vs GSW but nowhere as much as Westbrook).

All that said, his struggles are because of GSW's elite D more than anything.

Westbrook and Durant score in very different ways. Westbrook's drive is what opens up the floor for his team. If they can sit on his drives and leave a guy open, then that makes it pretty difficult. Durant hasn't had any luck driving against GSW either, but he is 6'11 and a great outside shooter, so his success against GSW was largely outside shots.

[SF_Warriors]

Probably one of the largest criticism of russ' game has been his efficiency/shot selection.

Russ TS% last season was 55%, a career high. In comparison, 55% is james hardens career low (rookie yr)

Russ is like kobe in that he has superstar impact despite not being incredibly efficient from the floor. GS just has guys who can disrupt on the perimeter and challenge at the rim and they can leave roberson as many has mentioned.

[88' Draft Pick]

Its true. I think he's going to be much more efficient this year though. Tonight he took like just 1 bad shot and shot 70% for 20pts in 26 mins. Granted against, lesser teams, he's looked different out there than he ever has. Picking his spots more and making great decisions.

OKC finally has perimeter shooting (took 38 threes @ 40% tonight.) That's going to change everything. We'll see what happens.

[Joey Wheeler]

Also Steph always did a much better job when he had to defend Russ than Russ when defending Steph. Steph's defense is usually underrated. He is better defender than Russ and Harden and always will be.

Westbrook is a better defender than Curry, his athleticism allows him to be a very effective man defender. For instance, he had to guard Harden a few times down the stretch last year (with Roberson being unplayable) and he did a good enough job. He's a pretty good 1-on-1 defender.

Curry just tries much harder on defense/is much more disciplined, he rarely ever loses his man, does all the rotations right; problem is he's generally too small or too slow 1-on-1, if you're playing the Warriors your best offense is to get Curry switched on to your best player and let him ISO. Westbrook OTOH can be pretty lax with his defensive rotations, which can lead to open shots for teams with great ball movement; I remember thinking that was quite an issue in that Klay 3pt barrage in game 6 of 2016 WCF.

[Mylie10]

Over the past three seasons (so, since the Warriors became great), Westbrook's stats vs. Golden State:

76-225 shooting: 33.7 FG%
ORTG: 100
99 AST / 55 TOV

The proof is in the pudding. For whatever reason, Russ hasn't done well offensively vs. the Dubs.

They encourage him to shoot from outside.

However I don't believe the story as it's presented in the title of this thread.

[andrewww]

Also Steph always did a much better job when he had to defend Russ than Russ when defending Steph. Steph's defense is usually underrated. He is better defender than Russ and Harden and always will be.

Westbrook is a better defender than Curry, his athleticism allows him to be a very effective man defender. For instance, he had to guard Harden a few times down the stretch last year (with Roberson being unplayable) and he did a good enough job. He's a pretty good 1-on-1 defender.

Curry just tries much harder on defense/is much more disciplined, he rarely ever loses his man, does all the rotations right; problem is he's generally too small or too slow 1-on-1, if you're playing the Warriors your best offense is to get Curry switched on to your best player and let him ISO. Westbrook OTOH can be pretty lax with his defensive rotations, which can lead to open shots for teams with great ball movement; I remember thinking that was quite an issue in that Klay 3pt barrage in game 6 of 2016 WCF.

This is a good take. However, is being a better man defender (on occasion only) while often being lazy on rotations or gambling on defense... overall better than a much more disciplined team defender who isn't anything special athletically?

[MovieMuscle]

Its true. I think he's going to be much more efficient this year though. Tonight he took like just 1 bad shot and shot 70% for 20pts in 26 mins. Granted against, lesser teams, he's looked different out there than he ever has. Picking his spots more and making great decisions.

OKC finally has perimeter shooting (took 38 threes @ 40% tonight.) That's going to change everything. We'll see what happens.

And they still scored less than 100 points??

[Flash Falcon X]

It's something nobody will talk about, or they'll just give all the credit to Klay as if he's defending Westbrook 100% of the time, which just isn't true, but Curry defends Westbrook pretty well, and does a better job of slowing down Westbrook than Westbrook does Curry (in fact, Curry abuses Westbrook offensively).

I think Westbrook actually put up better numbers against Klay than he did Curry in the 2016 playoffs IIRC.

People think Steph is bad at defense because he’s a light skinned and unathletic player who likes to shoot a lot.

I bet people would be surprised to find out Curry’s always been one of the best percentage finishers in the paint for a while now. In 2016 he was top 5 in the league in PAINT FG% and this is among big men like Blake Griffin, too, not just guards.

But since Steph is known as a shooter who can’t dunk people assume he can’t finish in the paint and that he’s soft because he likes threes.

When KD first left OKC in 2016, that offseason I remembered a poster saying Westbrook is going to “lick his chops” against Curry.

Honestly I thought Westbrook would do pretty well, but damn that 2016-2017 season was so bad for him against GSW. He had two games with 10+ turnovers and shot horrible percentages.

People will see his 40 point games and not look at how many shots he had to chuck up attempt in order to get his points.

People will see his double digit rebounds and not realize that he NEVER guards the three point line so he can grab long rebounds that his big men teammates deliberately allow him to grab. Even DeAndre Jordan contests more three point shots than Westbrook.

People will see his assists but not see how many turnovers he got. Westbrook committed the most turnovers against Golden State and almost had as many turnovers as he did assists.

All Steph has to do to guard him is help pack the paint and let him chuck up shots. Those missed shots and turnovers fuel the Warriors offense. And even if Westbrook makes those shots, it’s hard to beat Steph in a shootout.

Now that Westbrook has two highly iso-oriented teammates in Paul George and Carmelo Anthony, his stats will definitely be reduced this upcoming season. Westbrook will get less shots, and he wasn’t efficient to begin with. His points and rebounds will go down, but his assists will go up or stay the same unless Melo and PG have to dribble the ball a lot.

Westbrook’s defense will get better, though, because he’ll have help on offense to allow him to use more energy on the defensive end of the court.


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[Joey Wheeler]

Also Steph always did a much better job when he had to defend Russ than Russ when defending Steph. Steph's defense is usually underrated. He is better defender than Russ and Harden and always will be.

Westbrook is a better defender than Curry, his athleticism allows him to be a very effective man defender. For instance, he had to guard Harden a few times down the stretch last year (with Roberson being unplayable) and he did a good enough job. He's a pretty good 1-on-1 defender.

Curry just tries much harder on defense/is much more disciplined, he rarely ever loses his man, does all the rotations right; problem is he's generally too small or too slow 1-on-1, if you're playing the Warriors your best offense is to get Curry switched on to your best player and let him ISO. Westbrook OTOH can be pretty lax with his defensive rotations, which can lead to open shots for teams with great ball movement; I remember thinking that was quite an issue in that Klay 3pt barrage in game 6 of 2016 WCF.

This is a good take. However, is being a better man defender (on occasion only) while often being lazy on rotations or gambling on defense... overall better than a much more disciplined team defender who isn't anything special athletically?

IMO, yes in general. Reason being Curry can be targetted on defense, you want to have Curry switched on your best offensive players so they can exploit him. With Westbrook this isn't the case, you don't need to hide him, he has the athleticism to guard almost anyone on the perimeter. As a team, you need to hide Curry on defense and you don't need to do that with Westbrook.

This would be a serious liability if the Warriors didn't have such a stacked defensive cast. Curry is exploited relatively rarely because he plays with a perennial DPOY, a cast of great athletic and lengthy defenders + his backcourt partner is an excellent defender who can always take the other team's lead guard. This means it's relatively easy to hide Curry on defense and most of what he has to do on that end is maintain effort and discipline...

[FlatearthZorro]

They are saying it cause RW keeps the ball for long periods of time which makes it easy for the defense to react and send help/adjust.

[Rotten Apple]

FG% in 2017

was that supposed to be a joke?

FG% is a pretty meaningless stat now

I hate this place.

[Darren]

1.The Warriors already penciled OKC for a WCF meeting.
2.The Warriors is rooting for Westbrook to beat them.
3.So they remind him to fix some of his shortcomings.
4.Thanks! Said Westbook.

[whatisacenter]

There's value in the ability to play at different paces, and that's not necessarily Westbrook's greatest strength, but Westbrook's style of play is part of what makes him who he is, and it works against most of the league. Thunder will need to figure out some way to get him to be more effective when they are playing the Warriors, I don't have any suggestions persay, but it's not my job.

This is exactly what Russ needs to add to his game. He goes full speed almost all the time and if he added some nuance to his game it would make him more difficult to guard him IMO.

[88' Draft Pick]

Its true. I think he's going to be much more efficient this year though. Tonight he took like just 1 bad shot and shot 70% for 20pts in 26 mins. Granted against, lesser teams, he's looked different out there than he ever has. Picking his spots more and making great decisions.

OKC finally has perimeter shooting (took 38 threes @ 40% tonight.) That's going to change everything. We'll see what happens.

And they still scored less than 100 points??

Yes. Did you watch the game? It's okay if you didn't but it was 62-42 halfway through the 3rd and they were straight up ROLLING when they pulled everyone but PG and put in the D leaguers. The summer league squad + PG almost immediately blew that 20 point lead before the quarter was over and couldn't score. So yes, but like I've been saying to you, it's preseason. Lineups are weird. Players that will get cut are getting minutes. You think they still would have been held under 100 with their actual rotation that was stomping DEN rather than playing 3 rookies + PG to finish the game out?

I can tell you hate hypotheticals, but the standards by which you hold a pre-season roster, basically forces me to speak in hypotheticals. This is a pre-season roster, which by nature is not designed to win, and you seem to think it's a true sign of what this team will be when they are putting their best 9 players out there and competing.

[88' Draft Pick]

My point was RW might be a different guy this year. He's looked poised and collected so far. Not forcing stuff. Not sure yet, but it's something to keep an eye on