Are the Raptors currently the 2nd best team in the East?

Patsfan1081 · Post #41 » by **Patsfan1081** » Thu Dec 14, 2017 4:33 pm

The_Hater wrote:
Green89 wrote:
The_Hater wrote:
They have the best point differential in the conference despite playing tougher schedules than both the Cavs and Celtics. There might actually be a good case here.

Our 4 game lead on Toronto in the standings trumps point differential, which can be inaccurately tainted at times (see Wes Matthews 3 point shot at the end of our last game vs. Dallas).

If you say so. Point differential has been proven a better indicator for success than won loss record.

Says who? Point differential could also mean a team doesn't throw in their scrubs in during blowouts or has been healthy most of the season. I fail to see how it also has more weight than head to head matchups or the quality of opponents faced. Some fans would rather chop off their own hands than admit anything pertaining to Boston.

Tommygriffin · Post #42 » by **Tommygriffin** » Thu Dec 14, 2017 4:37 pm

Patsfan1081 wrote:
ATLTimekeeper wrote:No, they're the best team in the East currently. Net rating has been superior to the Celtics for a while. Come playoff time I think they'll be 3rd or 4th.

Utah has the fifth bests adjusted net rating, are they better than the Cavs? These arguements Boston also has a better RPI and a harder sos, they also have more wins vs teams over 500 (including the Warriors and Spurs), but let's just put all those advanced statistics over things that don't mean anything, like the fact that Boston has a better record and has won the only meeting between the two so far(without Irving).

Shut it down 8-)

Mister Ze · Post #43 » by **Mister Ze** » Thu Dec 14, 2017 4:39 pm

They lost the head-to-head matchup to the Celtics without Irving, we’ll see what happens next meeting.

When comparing two teams H2H is the best indicator imo.

Mister Ze · Post #44 » by **Mister Ze** » Thu Dec 14, 2017 4:41 pm

Tribe wrote:Lmao

Will people ever get tired of gassing the wizards

They haven’t been healthy all season. They can easily finish in the top 4 by the end of the season. Beal and Wall have a solid track record

itsme23 · Post #45 » by **itsme23** » Thu Dec 14, 2017 4:42 pm

Regular season wise I would still have Clevland clear number 1 and Bostona number 2. Raps in third.

Playoff wise I think Milwakkee and Washington can beat them too.

Lowry is our engine, and this year he has taken a significant step back from his previous years. We have solid rookie and second year pieces however they are unproven.

RUN T M C · Post #46 » by **RUN T M C** » Thu Dec 14, 2017 4:44 pm

Only Raptor homers are gonna put them top 2. I'd put them 4 or 5 behind the Cavs, Celtics and Bucks. maybe tied with Philly or Washington, but no way the top 3 team.

The_Hater · Post #47 » by **The_Hater** » Thu Dec 14, 2017 4:53 pm

Patsfan1081 wrote:
The_Hater wrote:
Green89 wrote:
Our 4 game lead on Toronto in the standings trumps point differential, which can be inaccurately tainted at times (see Wes Matthews 3 point shot at the end of our last game vs. Dallas).

If you say so. Point differential has been proven a better indicator for success than won loss record.

Says who?.

Pretty much every advanced statistician who studies probability. Just google it.

I have no idea why you seem so offended by this notion. Obviously there isn’t a perfect method for predicting future results but won/loss record is generally overrated. Either way, they still have to play the games but I don’t think the Rockets or Celtics are the best teams in their respective conferences.

The_Hater · Post #48 » by **The_Hater** » Thu Dec 14, 2017 4:55 pm

RUN T M C wrote:Only Raptor homers are gonna put them top 2. I'd put them 4 or 5 behind the Cavs, Celtics and Bucks. maybe tied with Philly or Washington, but no way the top 3 team.

I like the Bucks, they look somewhat dangerous, but what have they done this season or last to be given top 3 status?

ITYSL · Post #49 » by **ITYSL** » Thu Dec 14, 2017 4:59 pm

The_Hater wrote:
Green89 wrote:
The_Hater wrote:
They have the best point differential in the conference despite playing tougher schedules than both the Cavs and Celtics. There might actually be a good case here.

Our 4 game lead on Toronto in the standings trumps point differential, which can be inaccurately tainted at times (see Wes Matthews 3 point shot at the end of our last game vs. Dallas).

If you say so. Point differential has been proven a better indicator for success than won loss record.

Weird, I thought the definition of success was how many wins a team has. Thanks for letting me know that point differential is a better indicator than win-loss record for win-loss record. :roll:

The_Hater · Post #50 » by **The_Hater** » Thu Dec 14, 2017 5:00 pm

CoP wrote:
The_Hater wrote:
Green89 wrote:
Our 4 game lead on Toronto in the standings trumps point differential, which can be inaccurately tainted at times (see Wes Matthews 3 point shot at the end of our last game vs. Dallas).

If you say so. Point differential has been proven a better indicator for success than won loss record.

Weird, I thought the definition of success was a team's win-loss record. Thanks for letting me know that point differential is a better indicator than win-loss record for win-loss record.

I missed a word in that post. It should have said future success.

Thanks for the heads up.

ITYSL · Post #51 » by **ITYSL** » Thu Dec 14, 2017 5:39 pm

The_Hater wrote:
CoP wrote:
The_Hater wrote:
If you say so. Point differential has been proven a better indicator for success than won loss record.

Weird, I thought the definition of success was a team's win-loss record. Thanks for letting me know that point differential is a better indicator than win-loss record for win-loss record.

I missed a word in that post. It should have said future success.

Thanks for the heads up.

While this is true, the difference is insignificant. Over the last 20 years, there is a correlative factor difference of about 0.02 when looking at 1st half w/l and 1st half pts diff compared to 2nd half w/l over the last 20 years.

TOStateofMind · Post #52 » by **TOStateofMind** » Thu Dec 14, 2017 5:45 pm

No they are behind the cavs and celtics. Raps are comfortably 3rd though.

bmurph128 · Post #53 » by **bmurph128** » Thu Dec 14, 2017 5:52 pm

Boy, everyone talked about the Cavs/Celtics with the PG swap...

But given how many Raptors fans trashed Kyrie and think Lowry is significantly better, and the Celtics/Raptors fan drama on here from the past few years, I am going to enjoy the Raptors/Celtics back and forth this entire season. Very underrated aspect of the Kyrie trade. Hopefully they meet in the playoffs.

The_Hater · Post #54 » by **The_Hater** » Thu Dec 14, 2017 5:53 pm

CoP wrote:
The_Hater wrote:
CoP wrote:Weird, I thought the definition of success was a team's win-loss record. Thanks for letting me know that point differential is a better indicator than win-loss record for win-loss record.

I missed a word in that post. It should have said future success.

Thanks for the heads up.

While this is true, the difference is insignificant. Over the last 20 years, there is a correlative factor difference of about 0.02 when looking at 1st half w/l and 1st half pts diff compared to 2nd half w/l over the last 20 years.

That’s fair. But the Raps have also played a tougher schedule than both the Celts and Cavs.

I’m not even trying to make are argument that the Raps are a top 2 team through the early season, I only said that these are some points for debate that could help one make an argument for the Raps. And there have been many statistical studies that tell us point differential is more reliable than w/l record for predicting future success. At the end of the day, I could really care less about what amounts to a pointless debate. All roads still lead through Cleveland during the playoffs.
.

Karate Diop · Post #55 » by **Karate Diop** » Thu Dec 14, 2017 5:55 pm

Cavaliers are the best team in the East, if you want to argue Raptors over Celtics I'd be willing to hear the argument but I think I'd still give the edge to the Celtics because of their vastly superior coaching situation.

levon · Post #56 » by **levon** » Thu Dec 14, 2017 5:59 pm

The Raptors are still in the league?

Shock Defeat · Post #57 » by **Shock Defeat** » Thu Dec 14, 2017 6:08 pm

RUN T M C · Post #58 » by **RUN T M C** » Thu Dec 14, 2017 6:08 pm

The_Hater wrote:
RUN T M C wrote:Only Raptor homers are gonna put them top 2. I'd put them 4 or 5 behind the Cavs, Celtics and Bucks. maybe tied with Philly or Washington, but no way the top 3 team.

I like the Bucks, they look somewhat dangerous, but what have they done this season or last to be given top 3 status?

Bucks have that Alpha in Giannis. By the time the playoffs come, I see them as the 2nd or 3rd best team in the East. History already showed us what the Raps core are made of. I've been a fan them in the past, they just have yet to show their true potential when it counts, the playoffs.

BTW, as you can see from my SN. Been a die hard warrior fan before they were good. Im honestly worried...just little. As the Rockets are playing pretty damn well and I have them ranked over my warriors currently.

fourones1x · Post #59 » by **fourones1x** » Thu Dec 14, 2017 6:10 pm

Nope. I'm a Raps fan and will admit C's are better.

Brad Stevens is probably the best young coach in the NBA and makes that team much better.

ATLTimekeeper · Post #60 » by **ATLTimekeeper** » Thu Dec 14, 2017 6:20 pm

Tommygriffin wrote:
Patsfan1081 wrote:
ATLTimekeeper wrote:No, they're the best team in the East currently. Net rating has been superior to the Celtics for a while. Come playoff time I think they'll be 3rd or 4th.

Utah has the fifth bests adjusted net rating, are they better than the Cavs? These arguements Boston also has a better RPI and a harder sos, they also have more wins vs teams over 500 (including the Warriors and Spurs), but let's just put all those advanced statistics over things that don't mean anything, like the fact that Boston has a better record and has won the only meeting between the two so far(without Irving).

Shut it down

SRS still higher than the Celtics. One afternoon game isn't very telling of head-to-head strength. Utah has been pretty damned good so far and the Cavs got off to a horrible start. And in their last 10 games Utah still has a stronger net rating, so why not? Last 10 Raptors net rating is 7.3, Celtics is 2.1. That's not very good for a #1 seed. Shut down the calls to "shut it down." If the Celtics are a head above the rest of the East, why can't they dominate teams like those teams in the West that have similar records?