Is James Harden already the best left handed player ever? D. Rob, Russell & Ginobili also in the conversation.

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Who is the best lefty ever?

Bill Russell
51
59%
David Robinson
22
25%
Manu Ginobili
3
3%
James Harden
10
11%
Other (please mention).
1
1%
 
Total votes: 87

mucciniale
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Re: Is James Harden already the best left handed player ever? D. Rob, Russell & Ginobili also in the conversation. 

Post#41 » by mucciniale » Sat Dec 30, 2017 11:07 pm

ChartFiction wrote:
mucciniale wrote:
ChartFiction wrote:People are still scared to admit that the value that Harden brings is better than 99% of players that have played in this league including David Robinson. Maybe people will respect his greatness when he retires.


When he will achieve something with his team (winning a ring) I'll admit his greatness,

For the moment I see a very talented player who doesnt even try on defense and play iso ball in offense, and has also an history of mental collapsing coming playoffs time. Not my favourite kind of player at all.


When was he suppose to win a ring in his career? When OKC made the finals and their players were the same age as Kuzma facing prime Lebron, Wade, and Bosh?

At what point in his career did Robinson win his rings and what were his playoff numbers in those two rings?


Now he got Chris Paul on his team, we will see what happen in this year playoffs,
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Re: Is James Harden already the best left handed player ever? D. Rob, Russell & Ginobili also in the conversation. 

Post#43 » by knuckles862 » Sat Dec 30, 2017 11:20 pm

It sucks because I feel like manu would of been just as good if not a little better than harden had he gotten his own team
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Re: Is James Harden already the best left handed player ever? D. Rob, Russell & Ginobili also in the conversation. 

Post#44 » by ellobo » Sat Dec 30, 2017 11:22 pm

THE J0KER wrote:I'm the one of those 10% who voted so far for Harden, not because I'm thinking he is the any better player than Russel or D.Robinson, but because I think Harden and Ginobili are the only players I ever watched which use fact that they are left-handed like clear advantage (opponent players is less adjusted vs left-handed). While Russel and Robinson are also known for their very high BBIQ, on Center position player have no too much options to use left-handed trait as any kind of advantage, so in their cases, it is just trivia fact.

Basketball is positional team sport only by "depth", not by "depth and side" like most of the others team sports where being a lefty is a great benefit, so in basketball, it will never be a big deal if someone is left-handed. But some players can find a way to use it as an advantage doing unusual moves for their defenders, like Harden, Ginobili, IT, Derek Fisher, Kukoc...


Speaking as a lefty, this is just wrong.

First of all, being left-handed is a huge advantage defensively. Russell himself has spoken about this on many occasions. Your dominant hand is always opposite your opponent's dominant hand. The most obvious times this is an advantage are when contesting or blocking shots, but it's actually advantageous in almost any man to man defensive situation.

On offense, being lefty puts you at a significant disadvantage for the same reason. All right-handed defenders have the same advantage over you that you normally have over right-handed offensive players. Yes, you can catch defenders off-guard since they are not as used to playing against lefties, but I think that is overstated and applies mostly to poor defenders who don't pay attention. I know that the first thing I look for in an opponent is which hand is his dominant hand. In pickup/rec league situations where I am not familiar with opposing players, I will check them out during warm ups or while waiting to play, to assess tendencies. In the NBA, where you have extensive scouting and play against the same guys frequently, players are not getting caught off guard a lot. They may get beaten by a deceptive move, but not because they forgot a player was lefty.

Oh, and since Bill Russell is left-handed, the question is, "Who is the SECOND best left-handed player ever, after the guy who was the best player on 11 championship teams in his 13 years?"
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Re: Is James Harden already the best left handed player ever? D. Rob, Russell & Ginobili also in the conversation. 

Post#45 » by Rob Diaz » Sat Dec 30, 2017 11:23 pm

ChartFiction wrote:
mucciniale wrote:
ChartFiction wrote:People are still scared to admit that the value that Harden brings is better than 99% of players that have played in this league including David Robinson. Maybe people will respect his greatness when he retires.


When he will achieve something with his team (winning a ring) I'll admit his greatness,

For the moment I see a very talented player who doesnt even try on defense and play iso ball in offense, and has also an history of mental collapsing coming playoffs time. Not my favourite kind of player at all.


When was he suppose to win a ring in his career? When OKC made the finals and their players were the same age as Kuzma facing prime Lebron, Wade, and Bosh?

At what point in his career did Robinson win his rings and what were his playoff numbers in those two rings? Robinson was also seen as a choker in the playoffs.


Maybe he should start by not getting completely embarrassed by Jonathon Simmons in a close-out game 6 at home without Kawhi Leonard. One of the most embarrassing performances by a superstar in NBA history.
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Re: Is James Harden already the best left handed player ever? D. Rob, Russell & Ginobili also in the conversation. 

Post#46 » by mucciniale » Sat Dec 30, 2017 11:24 pm

knuckles862 wrote:It sucks because I feel like manu would of been just as good if not a little better than harden had he gotten his own team


With is own team Manu got a Gold medal in Olympics while USA got bronze, not bad at all!
And in NBA he won some rings.

This thing of your own team is very american...
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Re: Is James Harden already the best left handed player ever? D. Rob, Russell & Ginobili also in the conversation. 

Post#47 » by ChartFiction » Sat Dec 30, 2017 11:33 pm

Rob Diaz wrote:
ChartFiction wrote:
mucciniale wrote:
When he will achieve something with his team (winning a ring) I'll admit his greatness,

For the moment I see a very talented player who doesnt even try on defense and play iso ball in offense, and has also an history of mental collapsing coming playoffs time. Not my favourite kind of player at all.


When was he suppose to win a ring in his career? When OKC made the finals and their players were the same age as Kuzma facing prime Lebron, Wade, and Bosh?

At what point in his career did Robinson win his rings and what were his playoff numbers in those two rings? Robinson was also seen as a choker in the playoffs.


Maybe he should start by not getting completely embarrassed by Jonathon Simmons in a close-out game 6 at home without Kawhi Leonard. One of the most embarrassing performances by a superstar in NBA history.


Cause Robinson was such a great playoff performer :lol: . He was consistently disappointing in his prime.

Robinson has two rings that happened at the tail end of his career, averaging 15ppg and 7ppg respectively. That's why he deserves so much respect and Harden's absurd all time play is disrespected?
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Re: Is James Harden already the best left handed player ever? D. Rob, Russell & Ginobili also in the conversation. 

Post#48 » by knuckles862 » Sat Dec 30, 2017 11:37 pm

mucciniale wrote:
knuckles862 wrote:It sucks because I feel like manu would of been just as good if not a little better than harden had he gotten his own team


With is own team Manu got a Gold medal in Olympics while USA got bronze, not bad at all!
And in NBA he won some rings.

This thing of your own team is very american...


I meant from the standpoint that harden will be looked at as the better player when all is said and done because he had his own team and manu didn’t
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Re: Is James Harden already the best left handed player ever? D. Rob, Russell & Ginobili also in the conversation. 

Post#49 » by mucciniale » Sat Dec 30, 2017 11:42 pm

knuckles862 wrote:
mucciniale wrote:
knuckles862 wrote:It sucks because I feel like manu would of been just as good if not a little better than harden had he gotten his own team


With is own team Manu got a Gold medal in Olympics while USA got bronze, not bad at all!
And in NBA he won some rings.

This thing of your own team is very american...


I meant from the standpoint that harden will be looked at as the better player when all is said and done because he had his own team and manu didn’t


I don't know, if you put out numbers Harden is for sure the best player out of the two.
But if I want to build a winner team and I can choose between Manu and Harden, I'll get Manu because is a proven winner.

ps - I'm biased here, because here in Italy I see playing live the younger Manu so many times and we love him (he moved from Argentina to play pro basketball in Italy at 16).
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Re: Is James Harden already the best left handed player ever? D. Rob, Russell & Ginobili also in the conversation. 

Post#50 » by knuckles862 » Sat Dec 30, 2017 11:50 pm

mucciniale wrote:
knuckles862 wrote:
mucciniale wrote:
With is own team Manu got a Gold medal in Olympics while USA got bronze, not bad at all!
And in NBA he won some rings.

This thing of your own team is very american...


I meant from the standpoint that harden will be looked at as the better player when all is said and done because he had his own team and manu didn’t


I don't know, if you put out numbers Harden is for sure the best player out of the two.
But if I want to build a winner team and I can choose between Manu and Harden, I'll get Manu because is a proven winner.

ps - I'm biased here, because here in Italy I see playing live the younger Manu so many times and we love him (he moved from Argentina to play pro basketball in Italy at 16).


That’s the thing though say manu went to a team that wasn’t as good like the spurs and was the number 1 option I feel he would put up similar or better numbers than what current harden is but since he didn’t harden will be looked at as better

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