Nikola Jokić and best Bigmen passers of all time

[draftnightsuit]

Jokic is easily the best passing big man of all time. I'm probably one of the few posters here that started watching the NBA in the late 70's. His passing ability is just that good. And yes, he should be an All Star this year.

So, Jokic is averaging the same 5.3APG as Horford this season, Horford has more total assists this season, and Horford is an all star but Jokic is not, but Jokic is not only the best passing big man this year, but of all time.

Horford is a good passer and just a solid fundamental player overall, but he can’t make the kinds of passes that Jokic makes.

[UcanUwill]

Somehow every single best passing bigmen list leaves off Blake Griffin who's numbers stack up well with all these guys regarding passing (and no not just assists per game). Also yes, Horford deserves a mention and Noah was phenomenal.

Blake is good, but he benefits from having star level perimeter skills in general. He spends more time with the ball far more than your typical center, so he gets his assists that way. As I sad he is ok, but I dont think he is worth mentioning in GOAT conversations.

One guy I thought could become Jokic, was Dario Saric. He was one of the most dominant junior players in recent history, and passes he was making were insane. It was obvious that his dominance wouldnt translate and that he is not gonna be a superstar, but I think he has not showed everything just yet. When I watch 76ers, he is usually just catch and shooting, very little playmaking goes through him.

[draftnightsuit]

Somehow every single best passing bigmen list leaves off Blake Griffin who's numbers stack up well with all these guys regarding passing (and no not just assists per game). Also yes, Horford deserves a mention and Noah was phenomenal.

Blake is a great passer, but I see him as more of a playmaker. When I think of great passing big men I think of guys like Jokic, Sabonis, and C-Webb. In that they’re making passes that only a handful of PGs can make.

[Mickey8]

Modern day Brad Miller

Don't see any similarity between the two players , except they are both white.

[Cavsfansince84]

Russell should also be a voting option.

[OkcSinceSGA]

Somehow every single best passing bigmen list leaves off Blake Griffin who's numbers stack up well with all these guys regarding passing (and no not just assists per game). Also yes, Horford deserves a mention and Noah was phenomenal.

Blake is a great passer, but I see him as more of a playmaker. When I think of great passing big men I think of guys like Jokic, Sabonis, and C-Webb. In that they’re making passes that only a handful of PGs can make.

Blake has amazing vision for hitting the open man. Not Jokic in terms of having eyes in back of head, but elite passer, among all time great bigs.

[PicPock]

Are we talking about Centers or tall men in general? Well, if it the former, then he is gonna be the best of all time. He is that good. He is the best European among Sabonis, Vujcic, and Pau, although i voted for Sabonis.
I really wanted, last year before Jabari's injury, the Bucks to trade for him. I can't even dream a team with Giannis and him on the court.

EDIT: oops, i forgot Divac.
What a wonderful basketball school the Yugoslavian one. I also just remembered Radja and Rebraca.

[nomansland]

Recency bias?

Obviously I like Jokic but it's still waaaay too early to be calling him the best of all time. My vote would be for Divac for now. The way he played opened the door for passing centers in the NBA.

[cruwinas]

Sabonis. Is, was and always will be. Others could be good, great, but Sabonis was magical.

[UcanUwill]

Are we talking about Centers or tall men in general? Well, if it the former, then he is gonna be the best of all time. He is that good. He is the best European among Sabonis, Vujcic, and Pau, although i voted for Sabonis.
I really wanted, last year before Jabari's injury, the Bucks to trade for him. I can't even dream a team with Giannis and him on the court.

EDIT: oops, i forgot Divac.
What a wonderful basketball school the Yugoslavian one. I also just remembered Radja and Rebraca.

Its up to interpretation, but my intent was to talk Centers and power forwards. I mean Giannis and Durant are tall like centers, but I wouldn't call them bigmen in basketball sense, Otherwise, we would really have to include LeBron, Magic, Giannis etc. I wanted to talk about real bigmen of basketball, not just players who are tall.

Yougoslavian school is great, just insane all around. but I want to shout out Lithuania as well. Terrible at producing guards, but bigmen are plenty - Sabonis, Ilgauskas, Valanciunas, Songaila, Sabonis jr, Jankunas. Not all of them can pass, but all very good free throw shooters as well, you can call any of those to shoot your technicals, that is Lithuanian calling card.

What sets Yougoslavs apart, is their ability to produce PG's as well. I mean how many good PG's adequate Slovenia alone had in 00's? Beno Udrih was arguably the worst one and he was the one in the NBA, weirdly. Then of course Dragic came around, Serbia with Teodosic, only Croatia has terrible point guards now, in recent past they had Planinic and Popovic, who were good.

[UcanUwill]

Recency bias?

Obviously I like Jokic but it's still waaaay too early to be calling him the best of all time. My vote would be for Divac for now. The way he played opened the door for passing centers in the NBA.

Recency bias definitely, but I bet I can take Jokic highlights of just last 2 years, and make a better passing highlight real than any other big who is already retired. Jokic passing is insane, doubling him is death sentense, because he truly has eyes on his back.

Watch on YouTube

ANd its not just about flashy passes, but how effective he is. Its like he knows where everyone is and where everyone going to be at all time. Add that with precision, creativity and good hands, and here we are. Just a rare few in history had that combo ability.

[PicPock]

Are we talking about Centers or tall men in general? Well, if it the former, then he is gonna be the best of all time. He is that good. He is the best European among Sabonis, Vujcic, and Pau, although i voted for Sabonis.
I really wanted, last year before Jabari's injury, the Bucks to trade for him. I can't even dream a team with Giannis and him on the court.

EDIT: oops, i forgot Divac.
What a wonderful basketball school the Yugoslavian one. I also just remembered Radja and Rebraca.

Its up to interpretation, but my intent was to talk Centers and power forwards. I mean Giannis and Durant are tall like centers, but I wouldn't call them bigmen in basketball sense, Otherwise, we would really have to include LeBron, Magic, Giannis etc. I wanted to talk about real bigmen of basketball, not just players who are tall.

Yougoslavian school is great, just insane all around. but I want to shout out Lithuania as well. Terrible at producing guards, but bigmen are plenty - Sabonis, Ilgauskas, Valanciunas, Songaila, Sabonis jr, Jankunas. Not all of them can pass, but all very good free throw shooters as well, you can call any of those to shoot your technicals, that is Lithuanian calling card.

What sets Yougoslavs apart, is their ability to produce PG's as well. I mean how many good PG's adequate Slovenia alone had in 00's? Beno Udrih was arguably the worst one and he was the one in the NBA, weirdly. Then of course Dragic came around, Serbia with Teodosic, only Croatia has terrible point guards now, in recent past they had Planinic and Popovic, who were good.

Nice post.
About Lithuania though, i guess you forgot Jasikevicius, Marciulionis and Macijauskas;)

[whysoserious]

Jokic has the ability to make some spectacular passes but so much of the video in the Op is straight up handoffs that led to scoring plays. Those are important. He seems to make the obvious pass that's right there, it's not spectacular in terms of highlights. That's sound fundamentals and good vision and high BBIQ imo. I don't know if that makes him the greatest passing big man of all time.

He'd probably end up in the conversation at the end of his career. IMO though, Sabonis even coming to the NBA post injury and much heavier was an unreal passer. He created plays that weren't there. Jokic does it on occasion maybe.

I don't think a big man has come close to having the vision that Sabonis had.

[jeeph]

I just wanted to give a shout out to Tim Duncan and Brad Daugherty. They did not make the flashy, highlight reel passes like some of the others but it is hard to remember when they made a bad pass. If you pass at the right time to the right guy, it won't be flashy most of the time. They would be the Chris Paul's of the list.

[UcanUwill]

Nice post.
About Lithuania though, i guess you forgot Jasikevicius, Marciulionis and Macijauskas;)

Marciulionis was a long time ago.

Jasikevicius was more of the anomaly. And I really feel that in a way, he even hurt next gen point guard situation. Because guy had no handle, like none, he was very rare case of point guard with zero handle, but ability to protect the ball with his bum and just the guy who figured out how to play the game. One of the million. But youth generation adored Jasikevius and grew up thinking that all that is needed to be a great pointguard are flashy passes and ability to shoot. And we got players like Cizauskas, who looked strong at everything, but couldn't dribble the ball, basic pressure and that guy collapses. Just an army of pointguards who dribbles at Joel Embiid level. I am not a big fan of Spanoulis, but I think he is a better role model, because when youth watches him, they realize how useful ability to split the double can be, and that guard has to have tight handle. And probably very few of next gen players will reach Spanoulis level, but they will be useful because they will be guards who dribbles the ball.

But we went very OT here, let end this.

[antonac]

Arvydas Sabonis is the best passing big of all time but I'd put Jokić at #2. He's right up there, too.

Sabonis had 964 total career assists in 7 seasons

Jokic has 782 in 2 1/2 seasons.

Jokic > Sabonis and its not even close

it will be Jokic when all is said and done, he's another level, buuuut I will point out that Denver are one of the dodgier teams when it comes to attributing assists. Jokic's numbers are boosted because a hand-off to a player who then beats two men before scoring is credited to him.

it is still Jokic though.

[UcanUwill]

Jokic has the ability to make some spectacular passes but so much of the video in the Op is straight up handoffs that led to scoring plays. Those are important. He seems to make the obvious pass that's right there, it's not spectacular in terms of highlights. That's sound fundamentals and good vision and high BBIQ imo. I don't know if that makes him the greatest passing big man of all time.

He'd probably end up in the conversation at the end of his career. IMO though, Sabonis even coming to the NBA post injury and much heavier was an unreal passer. He created plays that weren't there. Jokic does it on occasion maybe.

I don't think a big man has come close to having the vision that Sabonis had.

I think you underselling Jokic a bit. Jokic creates passes that aren't there all the time I think. Like every time I watch Nuggets game or highlights, he pulls off something ridiculous.

I also never like this ''well, he might be in the conversation at the end of his career'' argument, when we aren't talking longevity
based topics. I mean Jokic is great already, if he doesn't improve his passing at all, but just does the same thing for another 10 years. he somehow becomes better passer now? He doesn't in this scenario, but at the same time he does to subjective minds. I understand that longevity is important if you want to be remembered and stand the test of time, but if you are good at something, you are good. We are seeing something special with this guy, I really feel that way.

[Johnlac1]

Not to knock some of the players mentioned here, but what some posters are missing are the master outlet passers. Players like Russell, Chamberlain, Unseld, and Walton were not only good-excellent half court passers, they were tremendous outlet passers. Unseld popularized the two-handed outlet pass that Kevin Love replicates today.
The best combination outlet-half court passer was probably Walton. Walton keyed Portland's fast break with his outlet passes. In the half court his ability to hit cutters to the basket was fantastic.

[clyde21]

Ahhh jokic hyperbole is back

It's not hyperbole at all. It's a small sample size, but I've never seen a big that can pass like Jokic.

[Peja Stojakovic]

Joakim noah's name deserves to be in this thread somewhere