RealGM Top 25 Player Poll-#6 2019-20

[iggymcfrack]

Either position he isnt part of the convo. He is second best PF on his own team. Definitely worse than Embiid and Jokic as a center. He is on that next level down, but clearly worse in terms of impact, head-to-head, and throughout the season and playoffs.

Edit: AD was better in college though

3rd all-time in PER, 4th all-time in postseason PER. One of the best defensive players in the league. One of the best passing centers in the league. 1st team all-NBA in 2015, 2017, and 2018. But he’s “not in the conversation for best at his position”. Come on now. You’re being silly. Jokic is my favorite player in the NBA, but if I was picking any center to build a team around next year I’d still take Davis.

Everyone gets to have a favorite player. When I was younger, Wes Chamberlain was one of my favorite Phillies, but he wasnt particularly great in hindsight. Getting voted 1st team NBA in 2015 by a panel of random people is hardly a selling point for better player on the court in 2020. Bringing it up kind of shows how few arguments there are to support his case. He's a B team star.

I was saying Jokic is my favorite player and I still have Davis > Jokic. Also I’d say being voted 1st team all-NBA 2 of the last 3 years and 3 of the last 5 while having better numbers than any center in history is a very strong argument for “being in the conversation” for best at his position.

I don’t put a ton of stock in box score numbers, but when a player puts up all-time box score numbers while also being clearly elite in non box-score aspects (mainly defense and passing), yes I do think they matter. Even just on impact numbers, the top centers are incredibly close with Davis ranking 7th in the league compared to 5th for Jokic and 6th for Embiid.

[Metallikid]

Anthony Davis leading the polls, when he isnt even in the conversation for best at his position.

Carry on.

Worse RPM, less points/rebounds/assists (per game and per possession) on a worse team, and looked like Embiid’s bitch when they played H2H. Also doesn’t offer the promise of continued development like Embiid. They are similar enough stylistically to where I really don’t see an argument for Davis being better. PER? At least Jokic is so different that reasonable arguments can be made in his favor.

I think you could argue consistency? AD was always very consistent on the court, never gets too high or too low, etc.

I wouldn't but I could see it. Regardless, I said in an earlier poll that I don't think bigs have the same impact as wings and guards so I'm still not voting for any big until a few more players get chosen first, PG being #1.

[Joey Wheeler]

AD ar #6 is way, way too low and won't age well during the season. He's the clearly pick among these poll options tho.

[GeorgeMarcus]

Anthony Davis leading the polls, when he isnt even in the conversation for best at his position.

Carry on.

Worse RPM, less points/rebounds/assists (per game and per possession) on a worse team, and looked like Embiid’s bitch when they played H2H. Also doesn’t offer the promise of continued development like Embiid. They are similar enough stylistically to where I really don’t see an argument for Davis being better. PER? At least Jokic is so different that reasonable arguments can be made in his favor.

I think you could argue consistency? AD was always very consistent on the court, never gets too high or too low, etc.

I wouldn't but I could see it. Regardless, I said in an earlier poll that I don't think bigs have the same impact as wings and guards so I'm still not voting for any big until a few more players get chosen first, PG being #1.

Consistency is a fair argument. It’s not that I think Embiid is “much” better or anything; they’re both top 10 players. I consider the advantage small but clear.

Regarding the big vs wing conversation, I believe the new era bigs have restored that balance. 7 footers that can shoot 3s and/or defend on the perimeter, or even run point in Jokic’s case, are serving the same purpose as traditional wings.

[Metallikid]

Worse RPM, less points/rebounds/assists (per game and per possession) on a worse team, and looked like Embiid’s bitch when they played H2H. Also doesn’t offer the promise of continued development like Embiid. They are similar enough stylistically to where I really don’t see an argument for Davis being better. PER? At least Jokic is so different that reasonable arguments can be made in his favor.

I think you could argue consistency? AD was always very consistent on the court, never gets too high or too low, etc.

I wouldn't but I could see it. Regardless, I said in an earlier poll that I don't think bigs have the same impact as wings and guards so I'm still not voting for any big until a few more players get chosen first, PG being #1.

Consistency is a fair argument. It’s not that I think Embiid is “much” better or anything; they’re both top 10 players. I consider the advantage small but clear.

Regarding the big vs wing conversation, I believe the new era bigs have restored that balance. 7 footers that can shoot 3s and/or defend on the perimeter, or even run point in Jokic’s case, are serving the same purpose as traditional wings.

That's an interesting argument but I don't think it holds up because only a very few bigs show enough of those skills to be impactful on winning. Just like the idea of shooting lots of threes was modeled on Steph and Klay, which was a bad idea since no one else has that kind of personnel, there just aren't any bigs who are good enough shooters AND have fast enough footspeed to be switchable on defense AND have enough traditional post scoring moves AND they excel at rim protection. To be a truly dominant big nowadays you need everything - and no one does all four right now. Honestly, you'd have to be Kevin Garnett to dominate as a big in the NBA today.

[iggymcfrack]

I think you could argue consistency? AD was always very consistent on the court, never gets too high or too low, etc.

I wouldn't but I could see it. Regardless, I said in an earlier poll that I don't think bigs have the same impact as wings and guards so I'm still not voting for any big until a few more players get chosen first, PG being #1.

Consistency is a fair argument. It’s not that I think Embiid is “much” better or anything; they’re both top 10 players. I consider the advantage small but clear.

Regarding the big vs wing conversation, I believe the new era bigs have restored that balance. 7 footers that can shoot 3s and/or defend on the perimeter, or even run point in Jokic’s case, are serving the same purpose as traditional wings.

That's an interesting argument but I don't think it holds up because only a very few bigs show enough of those skills to be impactful on winning. Just like the idea of shooting lots of threes was modeled on Steph and Klay, which was a bad idea since no one else has that kind of personnel, there just aren't any bigs who are good enough shooters AND have fast enough footspeed to be switchable on defense AND have enough traditional post scoring moves AND they excel at rim protection. To be a truly dominant big nowadays you need everything - and no one does all four right now. Honestly, you'd have to be Kevin Garnett to dominate as a big in the NBA today.

Actually if you do all those things, you’d be more dominant than even an elite two-way wing since a switchable big with elite rim protection is going to have more impact defensively than even an elite defensive wing is capable of. People set the standards absurdly high for bigs for some reason, but are much more forgiving of someone like Curry or Harden who has holes in their game defensively. If Jokic scores 25-27 PPG next year or Davis starts shooting 35-37% from 3, there’s no reason they can’t be a deserving MVP next season. The only player who’s really excelled in every phase of the game is peak LeBron.

[TheProfessor]

Vote PG13, He was 3rd in mvp voting playing next to westbrick and schroeder. Now he gets to play beside a DPOY candidate and floor spacers. He is going to have a historic season. I am talking 29/9/5
on 47/42/87 while being DPOY candidate.

[Metallikid]

Consistency is a fair argument. It’s not that I think Embiid is “much” better or anything; they’re both top 10 players. I consider the advantage small but clear.

Regarding the big vs wing conversation, I believe the new era bigs have restored that balance. 7 footers that can shoot 3s and/or defend on the perimeter, or even run point in Jokic’s case, are serving the same purpose as traditional wings.

That's an interesting argument but I don't think it holds up because only a very few bigs show enough of those skills to be impactful on winning. Just like the idea of shooting lots of threes was modeled on Steph and Klay, which was a bad idea since no one else has that kind of personnel, there just aren't any bigs who are good enough shooters AND have fast enough footspeed to be switchable on defense AND have enough traditional post scoring moves AND they excel at rim protection. To be a truly dominant big nowadays you need everything - and no one does all four right now. Honestly, you'd have to be Kevin Garnett to dominate as a big in the NBA today.

Actually if you do all those things, you’d be more dominant than even an elite two-way wing since a switchable big with elite rim protection is going to have more impact defensively than even an elite defensive wing is capable of. People set the standards absurdly high for bigs for some reason, but are much more forgiving of someone like Curry or Harden who has holes in their game defensively. If Jokic scores 25-27 PPG next year or Davis starts shooting 35-37% from 3, there’s no reason they can’t be a deserving MVP next season. The only player who’s really excelled in every phase of the game is peak LeBron.

I mean it's a matter of degrees and you believe they're more impactful than I do, it's a fair disagreement I think. You make some good points. I'm very willing to be proven wrong this upcoming season. I'll try to catch some more games from the lesser televised teams this year. I rarely get to see the Nuggets for instance.

As much as I dislike GM LeBron and him calling himself the GOAT, I still think LeBron is the GOAT.

[scrabbarista]

Voted Davis, nominate VUCEVIC.

[SlowPaced]

Vote - Davis
Nominate - Draymond

[AK47MVP]

Why is KD even on the poll? He won't be playing this season.

[Bhut Jolokia]

Why is KD even on the poll? He won't be playing this season.

I’m not basing it only on this season, so I don’t care about what teams they are on or what opportunities they will get next season (so not MVP rankings). I’m basing it on the current top 25 players in the NBA, period. Just because Durant is injured doesn’t take him out of that list because I can use my best judgement to predict how well he will play when he returns. Also, Dominique Wilkins recovered pretty quickly and effectively from the same injury in 1992 (he played even better after returning) and I think Durant can do the same so it’s not unbelievable (this isn’t the case for everybody).

Most importantly, the past season and playoffs play a big role in these rankings. Durant played great in the playoffs and when playing was probably just as good as Kawhi who is #1 right now. Don’t get confused with the ‘2019-2020’ title, because I’m not viewing it as a prediction for this season’s MVP performance. We should focus more on the ‘top 25 player’ part. He’s still a player in the NBA (that makes him eligible) and has a good chance to come back to playing at a very high level when he returns.

[Whopper_Sr]

Kawhi and Giannis over LeBron and Steph is pretty bad.

Durant being an option messes with the voting since you're leaving it up to each voter to decide which version of him applies here.

If it's pre-injury KD, he should've already been voted in at 3 or 4.

I go Jokic here. Davis after.
Nominating Draymond.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app

[Rockice_24]

Vote: Durant (I think he is still a top player in the NBA and will make a Dominque Wilkins-like return from his ruptured Achilles.)

Nominate: Bradley Beal

This is what I did too. I was torn on AD or KD but ultimately went KD. Neither was a bad choice though and should be #6 and #7 in some order.

[pootbrah]

Doncic

[tsirigoj]

Voted AD.

As long as we're disregarding Achilles injuries and pretending they didn't happen, I nominate Boogie Cousins.

That would be a good point, but I think Durant will play much closer to his pre-injury level than Cousins has due to a number of different factors.

Doctors have said differently.

I think the general consensus with Cousins injury was "we have no idea how he'll return."

The doctor(s) that worked on Durant said that he won't be the same. Not necessarily "bad," but not the same.

[SK21209]

Why is KD even on the poll? He won't be playing this season.

I’m not basing it only on this season, so I don’t care about what teams they are on or what opportunities they will get next season (so not MVP rankings). I’m basing it on the current top 25 players in the NBA, period. Just because Durant is injured doesn’t take him out of that list because I can use my best judgement to predict how well he will play when he returns. Also, Dominique Wilkins recovered pretty quickly and effectively from the same injury in 1992 (he played even better after returning) and I think Durant can do the same so it’s not unbelievable (this isn’t the case for everybody).

Most importantly, the past season and playoffs play a big role in these rankings. Durant played great in the playoffs and when playing was probably just as good as Kawhi who is #1 right now. Don’t get confused with the ‘2019-2020’ title, because I’m not viewing it as a prediction for this season’s MVP performance. We should focus more on the ‘top 25 player’ part. He’s still a player in the NBA (that makes him eligible) and has a good chance to come back to playing at a very high level when he returns.

I.e. disregard the actual subject of the thread as we've understood it in years past and just read into it whatever you want

[Sgt Major]

This one's easy, it's Jokic

nominate Draymong

[Bhut Jolokia]

Why is KD even on the poll? He won't be playing this season.

I’m not basing it only on this season, so I don’t care about what teams they are on or what opportunities they will get next season (so not MVP rankings). I’m basing it on the current top 25 players in the NBA, period. Just because Durant is injured doesn’t take him out of that list because I can use my best judgement to predict how well he will play when he returns. Also, Dominique Wilkins recovered pretty quickly and effectively from the same injury in 1992 (he played even better after returning) and I think Durant can do the same so it’s not unbelievable (this isn’t the case for everybody).

Most importantly, the past season and playoffs play a big role in these rankings. Durant played great in the playoffs and when playing was probably just as good as Kawhi who is #1 right now. Don’t get confused with the ‘2019-2020’ title, because I’m not viewing it as a prediction for this season’s MVP performance. We should focus more on the ‘top 25 player’ part. He’s still a player in the NBA and has a good chance to come back to playing at a very high level when he returns.

I.e. disregard the actual subject of the thread as we've understood it in years past and just read into it whatever you want

You might as well name it 2019-20 top 25 MVP rankings prediction if that was the case. Most places I see strongly base the rankings on the past season and playoffs. But I’m willing to add another layer and actually predict how well Durant will play when he returns (should only be the case with injured players). All this combined is what forms the current top 25 player ranking.

[SK21209]

I’m not basing it only on this season, so I don’t care about what teams they are on or what opportunities they will get next season (so not MVP rankings). I’m basing it on the current top 25 players in the NBA, period. Just because Durant is injured doesn’t take him out of that list because I can use my best judgement to predict how well he will play when he returns. Also, Dominique Wilkins recovered pretty quickly and effectively from the same injury in 1992 (he played even better after returning) and I think Durant can do the same so it’s not unbelievable (this isn’t the case for everybody).

Most importantly, the past season and playoffs play a big role in these rankings. Durant played great in the playoffs and when playing was probably just as good as Kawhi who is #1 right now. Don’t get confused with the ‘2019-2020’ title, because I’m not viewing it as a prediction for this season’s MVP performance. We should focus more on the ‘top 25 player’ part. He’s still a player in the NBA (that makes him eligible) and has a good chance to come back to playing at a very high level when he returns.

I.e. disregard the actual subject of the thread as we've understood it in years past and just read into it whatever you want

You might as well name it 2019-20 top 25 MVP rankings predictions if that was the case. Most places I see strongly base the rankings on the past season and playoffs. But I’m willing to add another layer and actually predict how well Durant will play when he returns due to his circumstances. All this combined is what forms the current top 25 player ranking.

Well no, Kawhi is #1 but I don't think anyone thinks he is the favorite to win MVP. It literally says Top 25 for 2019-2020 so a dude who is not going to play should not be considered. It's also inconsistent to rank a hypothetical 2020-2021 season KD against the 2019-2020 versions of everyone else.