The Celtics losing Al Horford was a disaster for them

[giberish]

Kept forgetting, but i've been watching some of the '18 and '19 playoff games and MAN he was a beast, on both ends.

They basically swapped Kyrie for Kemba, which is a lateral move imo. But it wasnt Kyrie who was the Celtics most important player last year, it was Horford. He was the defensive anchor, the 2nd offensive anchor, locker room and floor leader, and swiss army forward who could guard anyone from Embiid to D'angelo Russell on switches.

I think the C's are kind of screwed without him. He wont help Philly as much as he helped Boston, imo, but on that team he was indispensable. Dont see anyone being able to make up half of what he did for them.

He’s definitely helping Philly. They got MUCH better with him. I get what you mean, perhaps that he’s more valuable to Boston? He’s just as valuable to the Sixers. He gives them exactly what they need at the 4/5.

Horford will help for next year. But as he declines, he'll help less while his contract will be an issue as their younger players get more expensive.

You can argue that trade-off is worth is worth it for a title contender. Even with a young core you never know how many chances you get. Boston isn't really a title contender this year even with Horford (I'm not sure they could even have signed Kemba if that kept Horford) so the long-term downside of such a deal isn't worth it.

[FlatearthZorro]

True. He is a big loss we couldnt pay Horfie over 25 mils a year. Danny wast going to do it. I do agree that we might trade for Sabonis or Turner.

[itrsteve]

It’s not a disaster, what the experts overlook are the cap ramifications and the timing of deals.

This is important to make note of:
Kyrie leaving didn’t open the space for Kemba, this was not a 1 for 1 swap on the cap sheet. Kemba is only here because Al dropped off the books.

Kemba was the concession prize for Al leaving NOT Kyrie

What would have been disastrous is if he stayed on the books or extended. Boston would have never had a shot at Kemba and Rozier would be running point. The RFA’s would have been ran back as well. But instead they get a max contract slot for an All NBA player, not shabby.

Don’t get me wrong, al is the best, but given the timing implications and his age, I’m okay without locking him up on a 4 year deal. They’ll be fine.

[LakersLegacy]

The Celtics haven’t been very attached to their best players. IT, Kyrie, Al. But they do bring in good players like Kemba and Gordon.

[LloydFree]

I don't think losing Horford was a disaster. It definitely lessened the Championship hopes, but they can still be very good. If Brad Stevens starts Marcus Smart, gets Hayward out of the starting lineup and eliminates the ill will from Jaylen Brown in his contract year, they can get back close to the 16/17 team.

I'm not sure they'll want to do it, because of the money they payed Hayward, and they likely want to suppress Brown's upcoming free-agency. But benching either Smart or Brown would lead to either a worse defense or more locker room jealousy.

[GrandTheftRondo]

The Celtics haven’t been very attached to their best players. IT, Kyrie, Al. But they do bring in good players like Kemba and Gordon.

Well IT was a ticking time bomb, Kyrie was a lunatic and Horford was too expensive.

Any team moves on players when they don’t pan out or cost too much. Horford was going to cost too much for what he brings. With Kyrie leaving and no big addition like Davis there was simply no way they could justify keeping him for that cost.

It’s going to hurt the team for a while. A lot of Celtics fans are being ridiculous and trying to pretend Kanter is the answer. But he won’t be. For the Celtics sake we have to hope Robert Williams can become a starter.

[queridiculo]

We still love Al but he's on the back end of his career and we couldn't justify giving him the contract Philly gave him.

Trying to understand the logic here, it's not like there's any immediate answer on the horizon for the Celtics.

What are/were they holding out for that would justify not making the same kind of commitment the Sixers made to him?

Any sort of salary cap flexibility they have is going to be wiped out next year if Brown recaptures some of the production he showed in 2017/18 and a lot of the savings from Haywards expiring deal are going to be wiped out by the offer sheet some team is invariably going to prepare for Tatum that season.

The Celtics may as well have bit the bullet and doubled down on their roster for the next 4 seasons.

[cl2117]

Big loss, but easier to swallow in that there was nothing they could really do about it. Horford wanted to play PF, always has, and it just wasn't an option with Boston. I think Philly overpaid, but I would have matched it if I was Boston because it wasn't by that much (plus the contract is declining).

But if the only alternative to letting him walk was to overpay him even more, it’s just not worth it.

[queridiculo]

I don't think losing Horford was a disaster. It definitely lessened the Championship hopes, but they can still be very good. If Brad Stevens starts Marcus Smart, gets Hayward out of the starting lineup and eliminates the ill will from Jaylen Brown in his contract year, they can get back close to the 16/17 team.

The 2016/17 Celtics won 53 games with Iaiah Thomas playing at an MVP level and Horford turning in one of this better seasons as a Celtic.

Exactly who is going to pick up the slack here?

That's an extremely rosy outlook.

[queridiculo]

Ainge will end up trading for Myles Turner or Sabonis before the deadline.

Sure, just like all those moves he made to improve the roster when he had all these projected high lottery picks at his disposal, right?

[queridiculo]

kanter is a bigger, younger, and better version of horford.

Strange, is that why Kanter is getting paid $10 million over the next two seasons while old man Horford will make $109 over the next four?

[MagicBagley18]

I don't think losing Horford was a disaster. It definitely lessened the Championship hopes, but they can still be very good. If Brad Stevens starts Marcus Smart, gets Hayward out of the starting lineup and eliminates the ill will from Jaylen Brown in his contract year, they can get back close to the 16/17 team.

The 2016/17 Celtics won 53 games with Iaiah Thomas playing at an MVP level and Horford turning in one of this better seasons as a Celtic.

Exactly who is going to pick up the slack here?

Celtics will win close to 50 games...Stevens always thrives with teams with lower expectations. I think Hayward will be back close to what he was in Utah and if that happens he can provide some of the playmaking on offense that horford did. Hayward is an underrated playmaker with the ball in his hands. Scoring point guards thrive with Stevens’s (IT and kyrie ) kemba will be great with him IMO.

Tatum having a more prominent role on offense I think will help him and with kyrie gone I think we will see more of the engaged rookie year Tatum than the ball stopping Tatum of last year. Brown in a contract year and a starting role should have him being engaged and at least content with his opportunities on the offense end.

Kanter can score but is a a sieve on defense and that’s where we will miss horford the most and where the Celtics will get pounded in the paint.

Title chances are out the window but they’ll still be a 3-5 seed in the east and for many Celtics fans who suffered through last years almost unwatchable team- they’ll be a lot more fun to root and watch

[cl2117]

I don't think losing Horford was a disaster. It definitely lessened the Championship hopes, but they can still be very good. If Brad Stevens starts Marcus Smart, gets Hayward out of the starting lineup and eliminates the ill will from Jaylen Brown in his contract year, they can get back close to the 16/17 team.

The 2016/17 Celtics won 53 games with Iaiah Thomas playing at an MVP level and Horford turning in one of this better seasons as a Celtic.

Exactly who is going to pick up the slack here?

That's an extremely rosy outlook.

They'd need to add another piece to the frontcourt, but while HIGHLY unlikely, I could see it happening.

Kemba in the same system with the same free reign as IT could produce similar results. Tatum/Brown would have to step up as legit studs (Tatum more-so than Brown) picking up most of the slack. And then Kanter/??? (Poirer/RW3?) would have to outperform expectations.

16/17 Celtics team was a paper tiger. They weren't legit contenders, they were just a very good regular season team that got surprisingly far in the playoffs. They never really had a chance to win against top competition as the Cavs proved.

19/20 Celtics team I could see being surprisngly similar. No drama (hopefully), enough shots to go around, guys now having lower expectations (Tatum/Brown/Hayward) and a coach that has done more with less and less with more. I could see them having home court in the playoffs, yet getting bounced in the first/second round.

The frontcourt is really the achilles heel. Kanter gets a lot of hate and would most likley get totally exposed in the playoffs, but I could see him actually being a positive throughout the regular season. Even still C's will either need a surprise breakout from either their Euro big or from one of the young kids (RW3/G. Williams) or a trade for a real difference maker, otherwise I think they'll fold in the regular season (let alone the playoffs).

Hella rosy outlook though. Kanter is the weak link (not a shot at him, just a recognition of a lack of talent at the position).

[reflex35]

Horford is a big loss but Danny made a right decision not to spend that type of money when he saw Kyrie gone and no real chances to complete for the championship.
4 years 109 mil with bonuses or 97 mil guarantee. It's a huge contract and is probably ok for Philly as they are trying to win now - but after a couple of years and if there is no ring and Horford production drops due to age it will look really bad.
You can get good centers for 12-15 mil these days. Might not be what Horford did for Celts but would be near that level.

I would not call Kanter a problem for only 5 mil a year. He's worth that even though he only plays offence.
In order to be contend Celts of course need to improve in this position, but does anybody really expect Celts to truly contend this year?

[LloydFree]

I don't think losing Horford was a disaster. It definitely lessened the Championship hopes, but they can still be very good. If Brad Stevens starts Marcus Smart, gets Hayward out of the starting lineup and eliminates the ill will from Jaylen Brown in his contract year, they can get back close to the 16/17 team.

The 2016/17 Celtics won 53 games with Iaiah Thomas playing at an MVP level and Horford turning in one of this better seasons as a Celtic.

Exactly who is going to pick up the slack here?

That's an extremely rosy outlook.

They'd need to add another piece to the frontcourt, but while HIGHLY unlikely, I could see it happening.

Kemba in the same system with the same free reign as IT could produce similar results. Tatum/Brown would have to step up as legit studs (Tatum more-so than Brown) picking up most of the slack. And then Kanter/??? (Poirer/RW3?) would have to outperform expectations.

16/17 Celtics team was a paper tiger. They weren't legit contenders, they were just a very good regular season team that got surprisingly far in the playoffs. They never really had a chance to win against top competition as the Cavs proved.

19/20 Celtics team I could see being surprisngly similar. No drama (hopefully), enough shots to go around, guys now having lower expectations (Tatum/Brown/Hayward) and a coach that has done more with less and less with more. I could see them having home court in the playoffs, yet getting bounced in the first/second round.

The frontcourt is really the achilles heel. Kanter gets a lot of hate and would most likley get totally exposed in the playoffs, but I could see him actually being a positive throughout the regular season. Even still C's will either need a surprise breakout from either their Euro big or from one of the young kids (RW3/G. Williams) or a trade for a real difference maker, otherwise I think they'll fold in the regular season (let alone the playoffs).

Hella rosy outlook though. Kanter is the weak link (not a shot at him, just a recognition of a lack of talent at the position).

I don't think Kanter is their biggest issue. I think playing guys out of position (Tatum) and sitting guys playing for contracts (Brown) could be their biggest issue.

[Duffman100]

It's not just Horford, but losing Baynes AND morris too.

The Celtics frontcourt is like the Raptors' wings, razor thin. They're relying a LOT on a tatum bounce back year and either Williams or Theis to take a step.

[Bad-Thoma]

Will Time Lord be ready to contribute?

Most likely just in short minutes, he's still pretty raw when it comes to team D. I think he's a year away from being a good role player, he just needs reps in a team defense.

[grindtime22]

Now people appreciate Horford?

He is a beast and was the entire time in Boston. Is he going to be your number 1 offensive option? No, but that doesn't mean he won't be your most important player. He does everything. He is an unbelievable player and its sad that most fans don't realize it (average AL) because of the box score.

His impact becomes even more important in the playoffs as long as Tristan Thompson isn't on the other side.

[cl2117]

I don't think Kanter is their biggest issue. I think playing guys out of position (Tatum) and sitting guys playing for contracts (Brown) could be their biggest issue.

Playing Tatum out of position is a byproduct of their lack of front-court. Kanter is the whipping boy since he's the only guy of note that they brought in to try and stem the bleeding, but really it's their total lack of a 4 or a defensive anchor 5 that is the issue. Tatum playing 4 with Capela/Adams type guy behind him wouldn't be an issue.

Brown is TBD. I think it really comes down to Jaylen and how he handles it (and by extension how Brad/Danny handle it).

If he's willing to fill a role and not try and "get his", I think it works out best for everyone, but I can see him forcing it and trying to get the contract he thinks he deserves. Ironically I think that will make him less appealing to teams who won't see his value to a winning team and instead see him as great player for a bad team as opposed to a good player for a great team. He seems like a really smart kid so I'd like to think he'll get on board, but we're talking about a season that has millions and millions on the line for him, so I can understand how he might not approach this rationally.

End of the day though it's the front-court that's the biggest issue. The others can be mitigated, but if that's an anchor around this team's neck that'll drag them down eventually unless someone steps up unexpectedly or a move is made (neither of which I think are out of the question).

[queridiculo]

There's a lot to like about the players the Celtics have on their roster.

I love the backcourt pairing for Kemba and Smart in particular, but there seems to be quite a bit of overlap between the other players on the roster.

Finding minutes between Smart, Hayward, Tatum and Brown is going to be a challenge and they'll need all of those guys producing at a high level to make up for the loss of Horford and Morris.

Williams is at least two years away from being a reliable option, which leaves Baynes and Kanter to fill the majority of the minutes at center.

If you could combine those two into one player you'd have a heck of center, but as it stands it's going to take a heck of a coaching job to maximize their strengths.

Edit: damn, totally forgot the Celtics traded Baynes

Now I am even more curious about how the Celtics are going to deal with their gaping front court holes.