RealGM Top 25 Player Poll-#20 2019-20

[shza]

Doncic is soooo overrated on these boards holy CHRIST. People forget Oladipo is a savage now.

Dipo won’t play until December though. I would have voted him earlier, Klay even earlier, and KD even “more earlier” if they were all healthy.

As it is, voted Lowry (toss-up with CP3). Still better than Siakim next season, I think.
Nominate Klay, who I think is better than anyone else not yet on, even playing only post-ASG. (Horford would be my next pick.)

[Alatan]

Doncic is overrated. No way he is better than Mitchell or Jrue.

[Alyosha12]

This is the 5th really bad vote in a row. Siakam, Paul, Jrue, and Lowry all much better than Kyrie, Blake, Beal, Kemba, and Doncic. Apparently this forum officially gives zero **** about defense unless it's in regard to Rudy Gobert.

Or, you know, you might be wrong?

People care about defense, they just don't equate it to offense and they shouldn't. If you are an amazing offensive player, you impact the whole game, and you can take over a game. If you are an amazing defensive player you impact the game of the 1 player you are guarding, or 2 at best on a PnR. You can not take over a game through defense. A whole team can take over a game with defense, change the pace, force a style of play etc. but not one single defender, simply because there are 4 other players who can take a shot and score.

That is why great scorers get payed more then great defenders. Great offense+average defense>>>Great defense+average offense.

[stepic]

Doncic is overrated. No way he is better than Mitchell or Jrue.

Mitchell: 23.8 points, 4.1 rebounds, 4.2 assists 43% FG
Doncic: 21.2 points, 7.8 rebounds, 6 assists 43% FG

just looking at the stats Doncic is better than Mitchell, let alone the eye test.

[Alatan]

Doncic is overrated. No way he is better than Mitchell or Jrue.

Mitchell: 23.8 points, 4.1 rebounds, 4.2 assists 43% FG
Doncic: 21.2 points, 7.8 rebounds, 6 assists 43% FG

just looking at the stats Doncic is better than Mitchell, let alone the eye test.

Mitchel is a positive defender while Doncic is a negative one. Mitchell also played on a playoff team with terrible spacing. Rubio was also taking the playmaking duties away from Mithcell so his stats are a bit lover than what he is truly capable.

The eye test says that Doncic is heavily reliant on stepback threes and is much easier to figure out. Expect a severe 2nd year slump for Doncic.

[stepic]

Doncic is overrated. No way he is better than Mitchell or Jrue.

Mitchell: 23.8 points, 4.1 rebounds, 4.2 assists 43% FG
Doncic: 21.2 points, 7.8 rebounds, 6 assists 43% FG

just looking at the stats Doncic is better than Mitchell, let alone the eye test.

Mitchel is a positive defender while Doncic is a negative one. Mitchell also played on a playoff team with terrible spacing. Rubio was also taking the playmaking duties away from Mithcell so his stats are a bit lover than what he is truly capable.

The eye test says that Doncic is heavily reliant on stepback threes and is much easier to figure out. Expect a severe 2nd year slump for Doncic.

i don't really see Mitchell as a playmaker in the Doncic vein though. he's more of a scorer only. and i expect Doncic to get even better this season. i guess we will find out soon enough.

[Bob8]

Doncic is overrated. No way he is better than Mitchell or Jrue.

Mitchell: 23.8 points, 4.1 rebounds, 4.2 assists 43% FG
Doncic: 21.2 points, 7.8 rebounds, 6 assists 43% FG

just looking at the stats Doncic is better than Mitchell, let alone the eye test.

Mitchel is a positive defender while Doncic is a negative one. Mitchell also played on a playoff team with terrible spacing. Rubio was also taking the playmaking duties away from Mithcell so his stats are a bit lover than what he is truly capable.

The eye test says that Doncic is heavily reliant on stepback threes and is much easier to figure out. Expect a severe 2nd year slump for Doncic.

And what spacing had Luka, especially after they traded all 4 starters? Luka was double teamed non stop, because there was nobody other left. It should be much easier for him this year, having KP and Curry.

Btw. People are every year saying how Luka won’t improve anymore. He was just white guy, who cannot jump, before last season and he ended with winning ROY by 98/2. Good luck with your prediction.

[THE J0KER]

Voted Doncic. Nominate Jamal Muray. Vucevic to replace Durant as option.

[Gooner]

Doncic is overrated. No way he is better than Mitchell or Jrue.

Mitchell: 23.8 points, 4.1 rebounds, 4.2 assists 43% FG
Doncic: 21.2 points, 7.8 rebounds, 6 assists 43% FG

just looking at the stats Doncic is better than Mitchell, let alone the eye test.

Stats on a bad team have to be taken with reserve. Mitchell led his team to the playoffs two consecutive years as the only real scorer.

[leolozon]

Doncic is overrated. No way he is better than Mitchell or Jrue.

Mitchell: 23.8 points, 4.1 rebounds, 4.2 assists 43% FG
Doncic: 21.2 points, 7.8 rebounds, 6 assists 43% FG

just looking at the stats Doncic is better than Mitchell, let alone the eye test.

Stats on a bad team have to be taken with reserve. Mitchell led his team to the playoffs two consecutive years as the only real scorer.

Led his team while having a better player than him on said team? The Jazz were 2nd on defense and 14th on offense (stuck in between the Wolves and the Wizards). Defense led them to the playoffs much more than offense, which is why Gobert clearly led them.

It should also be easier to score efficiently when you have better teammates around, but Doncic was actually more efficient.

The "No way he is better than Mitchel or Jrue.", which should be "WILL HE BE better than Mitchell or Jrue NEXT YEAR." cause this is what we are voting on, seems premature to me. It's arguable whether Doncic will be better than Mitchell or Jrue next year, considering he wasn't that far off last year as a rookie. In fact, I don't think Mitchell was better than Doncic last year. Most advanced/basic stats actually favors Doncic including WS/48, BPM, VORP, TS% and PER... so I don't know. I guess Mitchell has a small edge in RPM.

But in no way is it crazy to think that Doncic will be better than Mitchell or Jrue next year. There are so many factors in play. How will Jrue play with Zion? Will he take more responsibility leading he team without the Davis drama? Was last year his peak at 28, or can he still get even better? Will Mitchell experience on team USA help him next year? What will be the Conley effect? Will Doncic take the next step? What will be the Porzingis effect?

Who knows? Most people are just trying to make the best possible guess. I didn't even vote for Doncic yet, by the way. I thought he would be 20-27 next year, so I was ready to put him 23rd in this poll.

[Colbinii]

Doncic is overrated. No way he is better than Mitchell or Jrue.

Mitchell: 23.8 points, 4.1 rebounds, 4.2 assists 43% FG
Doncic: 21.2 points, 7.8 rebounds, 6 assists 43% FG

just looking at the stats Doncic is better than Mitchell, let alone the eye test.

Stats on a bad team have to be taken with reserve. Mitchell led his team to the playoffs two consecutive years as the only real scorer.

Mitchell has never been the best player on his team. How exactly did he "lead them"?

[Gooner]

Mitchell: 23.8 points, 4.1 rebounds, 4.2 assists 43% FG
Doncic: 21.2 points, 7.8 rebounds, 6 assists 43% FG

just looking at the stats Doncic is better than Mitchell, let alone the eye test.

Stats on a bad team have to be taken with reserve. Mitchell led his team to the playoffs two consecutive years as the only real scorer.

Mitchell has never been the best player on his team. How exactly did he "lead them"?

He is by far their best offensive player. Gobert's defense is useless if you can't score. Gobert may be their most valuable player, but Mitchell is their best player. The ball goes to him most of the time.

[Colbinii]

Stats on a bad team have to be taken with reserve. Mitchell led his team to the playoffs two consecutive years as the only real scorer.

Mitchell has never been the best player on his team. How exactly did he "lead them"?

He is by far their best offensive player. Gobert's defense is useless if you can't score. Gobert may be their most valuable player, but Mitchell is their best player. The ball goes to him most of the time.

Mitchell is not better than Gobert. Nothing we have seen the last 2 years say that, sorry.

You could say Mitchell is the best offensive player on the team. Gobert is better at basketball though.

[Gooner]

Mitchell has never been the best player on his team. How exactly did he "lead them"?

He is by far their best offensive player. Gobert's defense is useless if you can't score. Gobert may be their most valuable player, but Mitchell is their best player. The ball goes to him most of the time.

Mitchell is not better than Gobert. Nothing we have seen the last 2 years say that, sorry.

You could say Mitchell is the best offensive player on the team. Gobert is better at basketball though.

We can debate who is "better", it depends on what you need from a player. I already gave my view on it, but when we talk about someone leading a team, it has to be on offense. I can't consider Gobert to be the leader of the team on the court, when he can't do nothing with the basketball, other than dunk when someone gives it to him. To be a leader of the team, you have to be a creator. Basketbal is primarily the game of creativity.

[leolozon]

He is by far their best offensive player. Gobert's defense is useless if you can't score. Gobert may be their most valuable player, but Mitchell is their best player. The ball goes to him most of the time.

Mitchell is not better than Gobert. Nothing we have seen the last 2 years say that, sorry.

You could say Mitchell is the best offensive player on the team. Gobert is better at basketball though.

We can debate who is "better", it depends on what you need from a player. I already gave my view on it, but when we talk about someone leading a team, it has to be on offense. I can't consider Gobert to be the leader of the team on the court, when he can't do nothing with the basketball, other than dunk when someone gives it to him. To be a leader of the team, you have to be a creator. Basketbal is primarily the game of creativity.

Why?

Jazz were 9.5th in the west in points scored and 9th in offensive rating. Just looking at offense, they shouldn't have made the playoffs. Mitchell led them to an offense that wasn't good enough to make the playoffs, Gobert led them to a defense that was good enough to be the top seed in the West. I'm pretty sure there's a better chance that Utah would miss the playoffs next year (or last year for that matter) without Gobert than without Mitchell.

You can use the word "led" as you wish (Mitchell does have the ball more often), Gobert is still their most important player as they are a defensive oriented team.

[KqWIN]

Mitchell > Gobert is not even a discussion, cut it out. I can't believe people actually believe that.

I'm voting Jrue again here, but it seems like the right time to consider some of the improvement candidates. Surely one or more of these players will be top 20 players by season's end (No order):

Simmons
Tatum
Mitchell
Siakam
Fox
Doncic
Booker
Lavine

This is somewhat anecdotal, but here are some trends I've picked up on in regards to development.

1. Outstanding rookies are more likely to make marginal improvements or even go backwards rather than continuing to skyrocket towards stardom immediately.
2. The same is true for young players who just took a large leap forward. It's rare to see consecutive MIP type seasons.
3. "Sophomore Slump" players are poised to make large improvements in year 3.

Under my own criteria, Simmons, Tatum, and Mitchell seem the most likely to have a breakout season. All three are at a similar level IMO, but I like the developmental potential for Tatum and Mitchell the most. Ben Simmons has the obvious area to improve, but I simply do not believe in his jumper. Tatum and Mitchell are both working with Team USA this summer and have had rave reviews.

Nominate Tatum and Love

[Stillwater]

why are people voting for players that are out for the season???