RealGM Top 25 Player Poll-#24 2019-20

[Message Boar]

Lowry is seriously going to take this over Donovan Mitchell?

Well, I know the reason that might be the case (hat tip to the Raps board), and I like Kyle Lowry, but if this is a projection for the 2019-2020 regular season, that ranking is going to look really bad in about nine months. Then again I think Mitchell is due for a big year and have been voting for him for at least five polls now. I could definitely be wrong, for example if the acquisition of Conley ends up taking away part of his responsibilities/stats instead of making him look better.

Rectification: I can't have been voting for Mitchell for 5+ polls, since I was voting for Doncic a bunch of times in a row before, thus I must now have voted Mitchell four times in a row.

Edit: nominate De'Aaron Fox, though there are a bunch of good options at this point. If we're only going to 25 it doesn't matter anyway, but maybe we could keep this rolling until the end of the offseason?

[ThatClockWork]

Kyle Lowry will be 33 next year and Mitchell will be 23. Mitchell is killing it with Team USA and will have more spacing with Conley and Bojan. Lowry has been drinking champagne and will have less spacing with Kawhi gone.

Okay? Those are all speculative in nature. While I appreciate the hot take, you really can't back any of this up.

Besides the champagne comment, which is obviously in jest, it's not speculative. It's either a fact or very easy to back up. Are you arguing any of these points?

Lowry will literally be 33 and Mitchell 23.

Every report has Mitchell killing with team USA.

Bojan and Conley clearly provide more spacing than Rubio, Favors, and Crowder.

Of course Lowry will have less spacing with Kawhi, who commanded double teams the second he touched the ball.

*stretches*

1. Since when is it guaranteed that a 23 y/o will be better than a 33 y/o? Hot take culture ties nicely in with age bias. Some players really only bloom in their 30's and Lowry has been one of them. Watching him play for years, he truly learned how to distribute and well over the past few seasons.

2. And? Remember Luis Scola the 35 ppg olympic wonder? What about Linus Kleiza? Both of them went off in tournament play and wonderful things were said about them. Did that momentum continue over to their regular season performance? It certainly did not. Go look the numbers up. So this Mitchell hype is as good as jumping to an unsubstantiated conclusion (or another hot take)

3. Okay, they haven't played a single game. Mitchell needs to adjust us USG% (31%) if he wants to make that work, especially in the playoffs. They didn't bring in Conley to play off the ball or provide spacing in the corner while Mitchell forces another low% shot. He has to do better.

4. Lowry creates shots for others. OG will still provide him with enough spacing and defense as he did when Kawhi was being load managed. Pascal will get doubled more this season in the Kawhi role should he take the next step so the Raps spacing doesn't really change unless OG coughs up nothing but bricks.

What point were you trying to make here?

[THE J0KER]

Voted for Mitchell which is clearly TOP20 player last season since January with 25-5-5 type of average numbers despite being just 22y old.

Nominate Jamal Murray, with suggesting to finally remove Kevin Durant (replace with Devin Booker)

[KqWIN]

Okay? Those are all speculative in nature. While I appreciate the hot take, you really can't back any of this up.

Besides the champagne comment, which is obviously in jest, it's not speculative. It's either a fact or very easy to back up. Are you arguing any of these points?

Lowry will literally be 33 and Mitchell 23.

Every report has Mitchell killing with team USA.

Bojan and Conley clearly provide more spacing than Rubio, Favors, and Crowder.

Of course Lowry will have less spacing with Kawhi, who commanded double teams the second he touched the ball.

*stretches*

1. Since when is it guaranteed that a 23 y/o will be better than a 33 y/o? Hot take culture ties nicely in with age bias. Some players really only bloom in their 30's and Lowry has been one of them. Watching him play for years, he truly learned how to distribute and well over the past few seasons.

2. And? Remember Luis Scola the 35 ppg olympic wonder? What about Linus Kleiza? Both of them went off in tournament play and wonderful things were said about them. Did that momentum continue over to their regular season performance? It certainly did not. Go look the numbers up. So this Mitchell hype is as good as jumping to an unsubstantiated conclusion (or another hot take)

3. Okay, they haven't played a single game. Mitchell needs to adjust us USG% (31%) if he wants to make that work, especially in the playoffs. They didn't bring in Conley to play off the ball or provide spacing in the corner while Mitchell forces another low% shot. He has to do better.

4. Lowry creates shots for others. OG will still provide him with enough spacing and defense as he did when Kawhi was being load managed. Pascal will get doubled more this season in the Kawhi role should he take the next step so the Raps spacing doesn't really change unless OG coughs up nothing but bricks.

What point were you trying to make here?

How are any of these stretches?

The ages are literally a fact. This isn't a Thon Maker situation. Being 23 does not guarantee you that you are better than 33. The point is the being 23 makes you much more likely to develop than a 33 year old.

Team USA has been a springboard for several players. It's not a hot take that Team is great for player development. The notion that Mitchell has been killing in camp is supported by every person around the situation.

They haven't played a single game together, but it's inarguable that there will be more spacing. You don't need to see Conley and Bojan play a game together to know that they provide more spacing than Rubio and Favors. PS: Mitchell is an elite spot up shooter. He had zero shot creators on the roster last year. Of course Mitchell is going to move off the ball more that he has Conley, and it's a good thing.

I can't believe you're the one calling "stretch" when you just said that the Raptors spacing does not change when you replace Kawhi with OG. You seem to be demanding this magic cookie from the other side. Something that makes it undisputable inarguable. Anything else is not a guarantee, a hot take, or a stretch. However, you make statements like these.

I see how it is. It's OK for you to speculate things like OG replacing Kawhi won't change spacing and that Pascal will seamlessly take the next step in the Kawhi role, but it's not ok for someone to bring up the fact that Mitchell will be 23 and Lowry will be 33. That is just hot take garbage that can't be backed up. Got it, makes all the sense in the world now.

[dTox]

Lowry

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

[ThatClockWork]

Besides the champagne comment, which is obviously in jest, it's not speculative. It's either a fact or very easy to back up. Are you arguing any of these points?

Lowry will literally be 33 and Mitchell 23.

Every report has Mitchell killing with team USA.

Bojan and Conley clearly provide more spacing than Rubio, Favors, and Crowder.

Of course Lowry will have less spacing with Kawhi, who commanded double teams the second he touched the ball.

*stretches*

1. Since when is it guaranteed that a 23 y/o will be better than a 33 y/o? Hot take culture ties nicely in with age bias. Some players really only bloom in their 30's and Lowry has been one of them. Watching him play for years, he truly learned how to distribute and well over the past few seasons.

2. And? Remember Luis Scola the 35 ppg olympic wonder? What about Linus Kleiza? Both of them went off in tournament play and wonderful things were said about them. Did that momentum continue over to their regular season performance? It certainly did not. Go look the numbers up. So this Mitchell hype is as good as jumping to an unsubstantiated conclusion (or another hot take)

3. Okay, they haven't played a single game. Mitchell needs to adjust us USG% (31%) if he wants to make that work, especially in the playoffs. They didn't bring in Conley to play off the ball or provide spacing in the corner while Mitchell forces another low% shot. He has to do better.

4. Lowry creates shots for others. OG will still provide him with enough spacing and defense as he did when Kawhi was being load managed. Pascal will get doubled more this season in the Kawhi role should he take the next step so the Raps spacing doesn't really change unless OG coughs up nothing but bricks.

What point were you trying to make here?

How are any of these stretches?

The ages are literally a fact. This isn't a Thon Maker situation. Being 23 does not guarantee you that you are better than 33. The point is the being 23 makes you much more likely to develop than a 33 year old.

Team USA has been a springboard for several players. It's not a hot take that Team is great for player development. The notion that Mitchell has been killing in camp is supported by every person around the situation.

They haven't played a single game together, but it's inarguable that there will be more spacing. You don't need to see Conley and Bojan play a game together to know that they provide more spacing than Rubio and Favors. PS: Mitchell is an elite spot up shooter. He had zero shot creators on the roster last year. Of course Mitchell is going to move off the ball more that he has Conley, and it's a good thing.

I can't believe you're the one calling "stretch" when you just said that the Raptors spacing does not change when you replace Kawhi with OG. You seem to be demanding this magic cookie from the other side. Something that makes it undisputable inarguable. Anything else is not a guarantee, a hot take, or a stretch. However, you make statements like these.

I see how it is. It's OK for you to speculate things like OG replacing Kawhi won't change spacing and that Pascal will seamlessly take the next step in the Kawhi role, but it's not ok for someone to bring up the fact that Mitchell will be 23 and Lowry will be 33. That is just hot take garbage that can't be backed up. Got it, makes all the sense in the world now.

You sound like someone who didn't watch the raps play when Kawhi was out. How many Raps games did you watch? What is OG's game like? What was the Raps offense like when Kawhi was out? How successful were they without him?

See now you're changing my statement. Nobody said anything about a seamless transition by Pascal either. I bolded it for you just in case you jumped to another conclusion before you finished reading.

The short of it: Don't go labeling something you (evidently) don't know anything about a magic cookie just because it's not the same as what you're used to.

Oh and for the record, since we're all the way on the jumping to conclusions train ... *stretches* literally was meant to indicate that I stretched before I started typing.

[cellphonecamera]

Nominate Drummond

[KqWIN]

You sound like someone who didn't watch the raps play when Kawhi was out. How many Raps games did you watch? What is OG's game like? What was the Raps offense like when Kawhi was out? How successful were they without him?

The short of it: Don't go labeling something you (evidently) don't know anything about a magic cookie just because it's not the same as what you're used to.

Ah, we've reached that point where you accuse me of not watching basketball. Should I turn around you and say you've obviously never watched anyone besides the Raptors? Gonna pass on that. I'm sure you can see how circular that discussion can become. When the argument is, "I'm smart and you don't know what you're talking about", it doesn't go anywhere.

We're just going to have to agree to disagree on what is a stretch, and what it means to "back something up". When things are facts, heavily reported on, and/or completely obvious I would not consider that to be a stretch, hot take, or impossible to back. Yes, I am definitely not used to this type of logic. Too each their own.

[ThatClockWork]

You sound like someone who didn't watch the raps play when Kawhi was out. How many Raps games did you watch? What is OG's game like? What was the Raps offense like when Kawhi was out? How successful were they without him?

The short of it: Don't go labeling something you (evidently) don't know anything about a magic cookie just because it's not the same as what you're used to.

Ah, we've reached that point where you accuse me of not watching basketball. Should I turn around you and say you've obviously never watched anyone besides the Raptors? Gonna pass on that. I'm sure you can see how circular that discussion can become.

We're just going to have to agree to disagree on what is a stretch, and what it means to "back something up". When things are facts, heavily reported on, and/or completely obvious I would not consider that to be a stretch, hot take, or impossible to back. Yes, I am definitely not used to this type of logic. Too each their own.

To*

I accused you of not watching Raptors basketball (was I wrong?). I however pay attention to Utah which is why I didn't bash your team (I even pointed out your main guy's USG% will need to come down for them to be successful. Was I wrong?) You just jumped to another conclusion, congratulations. We'll see who was right eventually. Until then, I wish you well.

[KqWIN]

You sound like someone who didn't watch the raps play when Kawhi was out. How many Raps games did you watch? What is OG's game like? What was the Raps offense like when Kawhi was out? How successful were they without him?

The short of it: Don't go labeling something you (evidently) don't know anything about a magic cookie just because it's not the same as what you're used to.

Ah, we've reached that point where you accuse me of not watching basketball. Should I turn around you and say you've obviously never watched anyone besides the Raptors? Gonna pass on that. I'm sure you can see how circular that discussion can become.

We're just going to have to agree to disagree on what is a stretch, and what it means to "back something up". When things are facts, heavily reported on, and/or completely obvious I would not consider that to be a stretch, hot take, or impossible to back. Yes, I am definitely not used to this type of logic. Too each their own.

To*

I accused you of not watching Raptors basketball (was I wrong?). I however pay attention to Utah which is why I didn't bash your team (I even pointed out your main guy's USG% will need to come down for them to be successful. Was I wrong?) You just jumped to another conclusion, congratulations. We'll see who was right eventually. Until then, I wish you well.

Got me on the typo, I'll give you that!

The "you don't watch basketball" argument is essentially the point where we reach "I don't have an argument other than to bash the person I'm arguing with". That's what the point we reached and that was what I was addressing. Seriously, what am I going to say, "I however pay attention to Toronto which is why I didn't bash your team". How does that change things, is my take valid now.

You seem disgusted by people speculating and jumping to conclusions when you jump to conclusions yourself. Both about the Raptors and about the people you're having a discussion with. Have a good one man. It's not possible to have a discussion when one side can have an opinion and one cannot.

[ThatClockWork]

Ah, we've reached that point where you accuse me of not watching basketball. Should I turn around you and say you've obviously never watched anyone besides the Raptors? Gonna pass on that. I'm sure you can see how circular that discussion can become.

We're just going to have to agree to disagree on what is a stretch, and what it means to "back something up". When things are facts, heavily reported on, and/or completely obvious I would not consider that to be a stretch, hot take, or impossible to back. Yes, I am definitely not used to this type of logic. Too each their own.

To*

I accused you of not watching Raptors basketball (was I wrong?). I however pay attention to Utah which is why I didn't bash your team (I even pointed out your main guy's USG% will need to come down for them to be successful. Was I wrong?) You just jumped to another conclusion, congratulations. We'll see who was right eventually. Until then, I wish you well.

Got me on the typo, I'll give you that!

The "you don't watch basketball" argument is essentially the point where we reach "I don't have an argument other than to bash the person I'm arguing with". That's what the point we reached and that was what I was addressing. Seriously, what am I going to say, "I however pay attention to Toronto which is why I didn't bash your team". How does that change things, is my take valid now.

You seem disgusted by people speculating and jumping to conclusions when you jump to conclusions yourself. Both about the Raptors and about the people you're having a discussion with. Have a good one man. It's not possible to have a discussion when one side can have an opinion and one cannot.

Haha lets just keep this going then. I asked you about Raptors basketball, OG's performance, the team's performance without kawhi .. did you answer any of my questions?

Its pretty fair to conclude that maybe you just don't watch raps baseketball. That's okay. If you answered the question honestly (or any of them at all), maybe the conversation doesn't devolve into whatever you think this is. You don't have to respond to any of this but feel free to read what I wrote after I stretched but this time assume I am not insulting your intelligence or attacking you ....

Back to the jumping to conclusions topic.. Did you look up Scola/Kleiza's olympic performances?

Do you disagree with my comments on Lowry's performance?

What if I told you that team USA was impressed with him a few years ago as well? (okay on this one at least, I'm having fun with you)

Like I said, I wish you the best even if you wish me the opposite. Sooner or later, we'll all see who was right.

[iggymcfrack]

This is an issue with grouping players into first option, second option etc. When Kawhi was out, I suppose Lowry was the number one option. But it wasn't remotely similar to Mitchell's role despite the "first option" label being the same. It's not just how much of the offense they consume, it's the role players around them. It's just a completely different context.

Sure, Lowry's a pass-first PG while Mitchell's a score first SG. They don't play the same. But Lowry was more effective as a #1 option than Mitchell was. That's the important thing. So if Lowry was better as the first option, a much better defender, and the second best #2 option in the league, there's no reason to think Mitchell's more valuable just because he didn't happen to have a better scorer on his team.

You kinda skipped the point there. Lowry's first option isn't remotely similar to Mitchell's first option. It's comparing apples to oranges. The whole "first option" tag isn't very descriptive. Lowry's usage when Kawhi did not play is very similar to Ricky Rubio, for example. We're not even in the same ballpark. If we're trying to be correct here, we should probably describe a player's burden by his burden and not these high level labels that don't describe anything in actuality.

If you wanted to play that game of switching scenarios, you would need to put Lowry on a team with no other shot creators and 2-3 non shooters or bad shooters always on the court. Similarly, you would have to envision Mitchell on a team like the Raptors with exceptionally good shooting and passing at most positions.

Mitchell was a first option last year and will remain the first option, but he's in a completely different context. The grouping is not very useful so we just think about the actual team situation, don't you think? You can't just assume that he'll be amazing in the new situation, but it is safe to assume that the situation he was the last two years was very difficult to succeed in.

The Jazz made 9.8 3-pointers per game last season at 35.5%. The Raptors made 10.8 3-pointers per game at 34.5%. Rubio was a better passer/playmaker than any secondary option that Lowry had when he ran the offense. There's not really that much difference in what they had to work with when you take Kawhi off the team.

[iggymcfrack]

I have the outmost respect for Raptor fans,who despite of the overwhelming power they have in these boards #wise,they didn't hijack the voting earlier.
#23 and #24 means they waited long enough to not irritate other fanbases.
(It is pretty funny to see "go vote Lowry" threads in their board ofc)

On a personal note,voted for Mitchell on this one (but i have Siakam on my top20 so we're cool)

Too bad they didn't do it 10 or 12 spots ago, we could have had a lot better poll.

[KqWIN]

To*

I accused you of not watching Raptors basketball (was I wrong?). I however pay attention to Utah which is why I didn't bash your team (I even pointed out your main guy's USG% will need to come down for them to be successful. Was I wrong?) You just jumped to another conclusion, congratulations. We'll see who was right eventually. Until then, I wish you well.

Got me on the typo, I'll give you that!

The "you don't watch basketball" argument is essentially the point where we reach "I don't have an argument other than to bash the person I'm arguing with". That's what the point we reached and that was what I was addressing. Seriously, what am I going to say, "I however pay attention to Toronto which is why I didn't bash your team". How does that change things, is my take valid now.

You seem disgusted by people speculating and jumping to conclusions when you jump to conclusions yourself. Both about the Raptors and about the people you're having a discussion with. Have a good one man. It's not possible to have a discussion when one side can have an opinion and one cannot.

Haha lets just keep this going then. I asked you about Raptors basketball, OG's performance, the team's performance without kawhi .. did you answer any of my questions?

Its pretty fair to conclude that maybe you just don't watch raps baseketball. That's okay. If you answered the question honestly (or any of them at all), maybe the conversation doesn't devolve into whatever you think this is. You don't have to respond to any of this but feel free to read what I wrote after I stretched but this time assume I am not insulting your intelligence or attacking you ....

Back to the jumping to conclusions topic.. Did you look up Scola/Kleiza's olympic performances?

Do you disagree with my comments on Lowry's performance?

What if I told you that team USA was impressed with him a few years ago as well? (okay on this one at least, I'm having fun with you)

Like I said, I wish you the best even if you wish me the opposite. Sooner or later, we'll all see who was right.

Sure. Yes I watch the Raptors. Yes I know about their performance without Kawhi. Yes I've seen great Olympic performers including Scola and Kleiza. Yes I agree that Lowry creates for others. See how much I added to the conversation? Nothing. Anyone can call someone out for not watching. Anyone can respond by saying they do. It means nothing.

What I took issue with is that you instantly dismissed things as speculation that cannot be backed up as hot takes. These weren't takes or things that could not be backed up. Age is literally fact. The team USA reports are backed up the reports. Conley and Bojan providing more spacing than Rubio and Crowder is inherently obvious and easily backed up.

Again, you didn't just disagree, you said they were unable to be backed up and hot takes. Then you go on to add speculative things yourself. You speculate about OG, you speculate about Siakam, and you also speculate about me. You continuously hold this accusation of "jumping to conclusion" when it's just supporting evidence to a larger conclusion. Yet you have no issues speculating yourself.

I could have watched zero basketball ever and see the flaws in your argument. Feel free to go on and try to insult me and try to redirect the conversation to my apparent lack of knowledge, but you can't defend your own statement that I have issue with.

[chokingmav]

Vote: CP3
Nominate: Porzingis

[KqWIN]

Sure, Lowry's a pass-first PG while Mitchell's a score first SG. They don't play the same. But Lowry was more effective as a #1 option than Mitchell was. That's the important thing. So if Lowry was better as the first option, a much better defender, and the second best #2 option in the league, there's no reason to think Mitchell's more valuable just because he didn't happen to have a better scorer on his team.

You kinda skipped the point there. Lowry's first option isn't remotely similar to Mitchell's first option. It's comparing apples to oranges. The whole "first option" tag isn't very descriptive. Lowry's usage when Kawhi did not play is very similar to Ricky Rubio, for example. We're not even in the same ballpark. If we're trying to be correct here, we should probably describe a player's burden by his burden and not these high level labels that don't describe anything in actuality.

If you wanted to play that game of switching scenarios, you would need to put Lowry on a team with no other shot creators and 2-3 non shooters or bad shooters always on the court. Similarly, you would have to envision Mitchell on a team like the Raptors with exceptionally good shooting and passing at most positions.

Mitchell was a first option last year and will remain the first option, but he's in a completely different context. The grouping is not very useful so we just think about the actual team situation, don't you think? You can't just assume that he'll be amazing in the new situation, but it is safe to assume that the situation he was the last two years was very difficult to succeed in.

The Jazz made 9.8 3-pointers per game last season at 35.5%. The Raptors made 10.8 3-pointers per game at 34.5%. Rubio was a better passer/playmaker than any secondary option that Lowry had when he ran the offense. There's not really that much difference in what they had to work with when you take Kawhi off the team.

It's an interesting statement coming from someone who has claimed that Siakam was both a top 25 player and that Gobert has zero offensive game. Given those two statements, I have a hard time seeing how there isn't a large difference in what they had to work with.

Anyways, we're skipping the point again. The point is, Lowry and Mitchell cannot be compared as "first options" because their roles were completely different. Even when Kawhi was out. Not only were their roles different, the surrounding talent and personnel was completely different.

[pootbrah]

D'Angelo Russell

[ThatClockWork]

Sure. Yes I watch the Raptors. Yes I know about their performance without Kawhi. Yes I've seen great Olympic performers including Scola and Kleiza. Yes I agree that Lowry creates for others. See how much I added to the conversation? Nothing. Anyone can call someone out for not watching. Anyone can respond by saying they do. It means nothing.

What I took issue with is that you instantly dismissed things as speculation that cannot be backed up as hot takes. These weren't takes or things that could not be backed up. Age is literally fact. The team USA reports are backed up the reports.

You'll have to help me out here, are you being serious or not? It changes the questions/comments that would come from my side next. Once again, stop taking things personally and read them as if you're not being attacked. It doesn't mean 'nothing', just looks that way if you can't consider what might be on the other side. We've all fallen into that trap before, let it go. I'll address the crossed out statement below ...

Conley and Bojan providing more spacing than Rubio and Crowder is inherently obvious and easily backed up.

Look at my previous posts. In no way did I ever debate, debunk, or refute this statement. Crowder could not be relied on when it mattered the most to hit those open shots. He was pretty streaky all season long. And Rubio was never that guy who would give you that level of accuracy from distance. I hoped his playmaking would help UTA out more but the ball ended firmly in Mitchell's hands for the most part. Hoping its different with Conley (I want him to win as a low-key Grizzlies fan).

Again, you didn't just disagree, you said they were unable to be backed up and hot takes. Then you go on to add speculative things yourself. You speculate about OG, you speculate about Siakam, and you also speculate about me. You continuously hold this accusation of "jumping to conclusion" when it's just supporting evidence to a larger conclusion. Yet you have no issues speculating yourself.

I could have watched zero basketball ever and see the flaws in your argument. Feel free to go on and try to insult me and try to redirect the conversation to my apparent lack of knowledge, but you can't defend your own statement that I have issue with.

I like what you tried to do there. Dismissing others statements in an effort to paint a picture. that's adorable and very low of you. And yet, I'll bite.

4. Lowry creates shots for others. OG will still provide him with enough spacing and defense as he did when Kawhi was being load managed. Pascal will get doubled more this season in the Kawhi role should he take the next step so the Raps spacing doesn't really change unless OG coughs up nothing but bricks.

Where in this statement did I state that Pascal will make a seamless transition into the Kawhi role. I speculate *IF* he does, the spacing will not change. Evidence to back that up includes all of the video leaking online from his runs at Rico Hines. Spicy P is adding that isolation step back jumper. We saw him take a few of them in the finals this year and I was surprised to see it. If he can create that level of separation while keeping the parts of his offense that he already has, it won't be hard to see him move into being the no. 1 option in Toronto. Shall I provide links for you? That to me is worth more than 'reports/speculation coming out of the USA camp'. Show me your evidence. I took time out to watch the game vs Australia game and I just don't see it yet from him. What we can agree on is that he's working hard. Anything above and beyond that is nothing but speculation.

When it comes to reporters/news outlets, remember they will go as far as to spin the narrative as hard as they can to attract readers. Sometimes the narrative just isn't true (see Iverson, Allen .. practice rant and what the Toronto media tried to do to Kyle Lowry after the Derozan trade .. they are pretty bad .. not all of them though) so yes, I am standing firm on my position that these reports are hot takes/speculation until proven otherwise.

Age is literally fact.

I wonder how you'll react to Mitchell when he turns 33 (will you write him off too?). Should I write any player off at 33? Age is age is a ridiculous statement that doesn't apply to everyone. Mitchell as a ton of potential but that's not enough to unequivocally say he's a better player than Kyle Lowry. To me, he needs to prove that he is better/more reliable than guys like Booker and Derozan first (that is not an insult, both of those players are accomplished but they have the same flaw on the defensive side of the ball).

The same things you are trying to pin on me applies* to you. Throwing stones from inside that glass house of yours really isn't working out today, huh?

[ThatClockWork]

D'Angelo Russell

Honestly he deserves some recognition. He completely turned it around last year and was a big reason that the nets made the playoffs

[Tim Kempton]

Vote: Lowry
摆脱 Durant
Nominate: Myles Turner