Sam Vecenie's Top 25 players aged 23 and under.

[Feel_the_Heat15]

I'm sorry guys, but "who knows what could happen" is the entire point. You're doing your best to predict something that is uncertain. That's what evaluating prospects is.

It is not the entire point and these prospects are being evaluated in a terrible manner.

It kinda is. We're all speculating to some degree. How would you feel if I said, "Bam had a good season, plays great defense, has intriguing offensive skills...but that doesn't he's going to be a great player going forward".

The guy you quoted listed several reasons why he thinks Huerter has a chance to become a good player. That's not terrible analysis. The "anything could happen" or "doesn't guarantee he'll breakout" arguments are actually terrible and don't add anything to the conversation.

If we can't speculate or evaluate, there is no point to having a basketball forum.

I''d be fine with you saying that. It's not like you said he will never become a great player. I never said that was terrible analysis but the odds of Huerter becoming a star is very low while he thinks that it's high. I only said "anything could happen" to show how flawed the system that's being used to evaluate these players is. Too much weight is being put into "future projections" which favor offensive players. Who actually thinks this list contributes anything of value to basketball? It's okay to speculate or evaluate but some evaluations or speculations are terrible which is what this list is.

[SmartWentCrazy]

Sam Vercenie is a weenie

There is a guy who is an All star, led his team to the finals being overlooked by a guy who hasnt played against guys who get paid to play the game of Basketball yet.

There is a guy who averages 24/12 on 50/40/80 splits for the wolves who isnt mentioned.

Trash list, thanks for posting it on this forum because if this guy isa a journalist or anythign he doesnt deserve the clicks.

Those guys are too old for this list. KAT was on it last year and aged out.


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Yet D Lo is 23 going onto 24 only 2 months before Kat, but is on the list?

Its cut off by birth year— 1996 or later

[UcanUwill]

Simmons a bit too high

[AbeVigodaLive]

Simmons a bit too high

Maybe. But he is the only All Star on the list... for what that's worth.

[KqWIN]

It is not the entire point and these prospects are being evaluated in a terrible manner.

It kinda is. We're all speculating to some degree. How would you feel if I said, "Bam had a good season, plays great defense, has intriguing offensive skills...but that doesn't he's going to be a great player going forward".

The guy you quoted listed several reasons why he thinks Huerter has a chance to become a good player. That's not terrible analysis. The "anything could happen" or "doesn't guarantee he'll breakout" arguments are actually terrible and don't add anything to the conversation.

If we can't speculate or evaluate, there is no point to having a basketball forum.

I''d be fine with you saying that. It's not like you said he will never become a great player. I never said that was terrible analysis but the odds of Huerter becoming a star is very low while he think that it's high. I only said "anything could happen" to show how flawed the system that's being used to evaluate these players is. Too much weight is being put into "future projections" which favor offensive players. Who actually thinks this list contributes anything of value to basketball? It's okay to speculate or evaluate but some evaluations or speculations are terrible which is what this list is.

It's the beginning of September and I like to talk about basketball. If you don't care for discussion about things that will happen in the future, there is FIBA basketball. "Anything can happen" does not show any flaws. It is inherently obvious that anything can happen. No one is stating that their opinion is ultimate and exactly what will happen.

[BarbaGrizz]

Zion and Ja shouldn't be in that list

[mplsfonz23]

Zion hasn't played a single game yet... and when he showed up to Summer League he waddled around like a 50 year old Shaq.

I'd like to see him at least play 20 games in the NBA before deciding whether he is #1 or Anthony Bennett.

This was brought up in the process, and I agree with them that this is a dumb comment. Just because a player has not played a game in the NBA does not mean you cannot have an opinion on them. What are you going to do, leave Zion and every other rookie completely out of the exercise like they don't exist?

Um no. Don't act like they don't exist, but let's pump the brakes on the rookies. That's why they should just separate the two list and not cherry pick age groups. Rookies and 25 and under "non rookies" list.

[SmartWentCrazy]

Simmons a bit too high

Maybe. But he is the only All Star on the list... for what that's worth.

He is not. D’Lo was an all-star last year and is ranked 13.

[KqWIN]

Zion hasn't played a single game yet... and when he showed up to Summer League he waddled around like a 50 year old Shaq.

I'd like to see him at least play 20 games in the NBA before deciding whether he is #1 or Anthony Bennett.

This was brought up in the process, and I agree with them that this is a dumb comment. Just because a player has not played a game in the NBA does not mean you cannot have an opinion on them. What are you going to do, leave Zion and every other rookie completely out of the exercise like they don't exist?

Um no. Don't act like they don't exist, but let's pump the brakes on the rookies. That's why they should just separate the two list and not cherry pick age groups. Rookies and 25 and under "non rookies" list.

Complains about cherry picking an age group and then proceeds to cherry pick an age group to his own liking....Alright. If it's so offensive to compare a rookie and speculate on how his career will go, by all means leave them out. I don't know why a discussion about prospects has to be so nitpick.

Anything that will lead to talking about basketball and not about a format.

[mplsfonz23]

This was brought up in the process, and I agree with them that this is a dumb comment. Just because a player has not played a game in the NBA does not mean you cannot have an opinion on them. What are you going to do, leave Zion and every other rookie completely out of the exercise like they don't exist?

Um no. Don't act like they don't exist, but let's pump the brakes on the rookies. That's why they should just separate the two list and not cherry pick age groups. Rookies and 25 and under "non rookies" list.

Complains about cherry picking an age group and then proceeds to cherry pick an age group to his own liking....Alright. If it's so offensive to compare a rookie and speculate on how his career will go, by all means leave them out. I don't know why a discussion about prospects has to be so nitpick.

Anything that will lead to talking about basketball and not about a format.

Well lets sort by draft class. Point is, these list are just speculation during a slow summer. Some get so worked up, and seems you did too.

[leolozon]

Sam Vercenie is a weenie

There is a guy who is an All star, led his team to the finals being overlooked by a guy who hasnt played against guys who get paid to play the game of Basketball yet.

There is a guy who averages 24/12 on 50/40/80 splits for the wolves who isnt mentioned.

Trash list, thanks for posting it on this forum because if this guy isa a journalist or anythign he doesnt deserve the clicks.

Those guys are too old for this list. KAT was on it last year and aged out.


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Yet D Lo is 23 going onto 24 only 2 months before Kat, but is on the list?

It's 3 months AFTER. And a lot of people use a similar standard. Why do you think Doncic was considered 19 during his rookie season even though he turned 20 at the end of February? Next year, Towns is going to be considered 24, because his birthday is in November and he's going to be 24 for most of the season. Look at Russell and Towns basketball ref page.

You have to have a cutoff and KAT didnt make it, else he would have probably been in the top 5.

[AbeVigodaLive]

Simmons a bit too high

Maybe. But he is the only All Star on the list... for what that's worth.

He is not. D’Lo was an all-star last year and is ranked 13.

Damn. I forgot about that guy.

[BoogieTime]

Well, with Fox at 6 and Bagley at 11 it’s more credible (what was that garbage Fox at 14, Bagley at 39 the other day).

I’d still quibble with the list. What has Booker shown in terms of winning? Simmons is a flawed player. Tatum ISO SF, better defending/efficient Rudy Gay

To be fair, the premise wasn't the same. It was best players in 5 years, so it included a lot of guys who are over 23 right now and even guys still not drafted (Wiseman #1 prospect next year). If you get rid of those, I think Bagley was 19th and Fox 8th. Still low for Bagley IMO, but Bagley is probably not going to be at his peak in 5 years, so the two lists ranked them closer than you think.

For example, this list thinks that Bagley is going to be a better player than Markkanen, M. Turner, D. Russell and J. Murray. The other list thinks that those 4 guys, at 27-28 years old, will be better than 25 years old Bagley. The two things can be true and actually make sense as most players peak around 28.

This list is way better though. I think some guys should go down/up a couple of spots, but I don't think there's anything dumb.

Bro we saw a different list. Somehow, Bagley was in the late 30s.. I mean, what the hell was that?

[clyde21]

top 8 for me are for sure these guys:

1. Zion Williamson
2. Luka Doncic
3. Ben Simmons
4. DeAaron Fox
5. Donovan Mitchell
6. Jaren Jackson Jr.
7. Jayson Tatum
8. Marvin Bagley

after that it gets cloudy, but I'd have Bol Bol, Tyler Herro, R.J. Barrett and Deandre Ayton somewhere in the next tier.

[Woody Allen]

Is this person a New Orleans fan? Ingram and Ball are rated too high, above superior prospects like Mitchell and Sabonis.

[Nazrmohamed]

Zion hasn't played a single game yet... and when he showed up to Summer League he waddled around like a 50 year old Shaq.

I'd like to see him at least play 20 games in the NBA before deciding whether he is #1 or Anthony Bennett.

This was brought up in the process, and I agree with them that this is a dumb comment. Just because a player has not played a game in the NBA does not mean you cannot have an opinion on them. What are you going to do, leave Zion and every other rookie completely out of the exercise like they don't exist?

Yeah. But they have him at number 1. I agree you can have an opinion on his and even project but number 1? I dont even think he projects that high and would probably dispute this idea that he is some once per generation player. I guess we'll see but hes a rim attacker whose 6'7 and cant shoot. The shooting part I'm not concerned with but itll take a couple years. He'll be good, no doubt. I just have an issue with the number 1 projection, especially when looking at this list.

[sfernald]

Zion hasn't played a single game yet... and when he showed up to Summer League he waddled around like a 50 year old Shaq.

I'd like to see him at least play 20 games in the NBA before deciding whether he is #1 or Anthony Bennett.

This was brought up in the process, and I agree with them that this is a dumb comment. Just because a player has not played a game in the NBA does not mean you cannot have an opinion on them. What are you going to do, leave Zion and every other rookie completely out of the exercise like they don't exist?

Yeah. But they have him at number 1. I agree you can have an opinion on his and even project but number 1? I dont even think he projects that high and would probably dispute this idea that he is some once per generation player. I guess we'll see but hes a rim attacker whose 6'7 and cant shoot. The shooting part I'm not concerned with but itll take a couple years. He'll be good, no doubt. I just have an issue with the number 1 projection, especially when looking at this list.

I wonder if in Lebron’s rookie year people made such arguments? If so those arguments probably aged quite quickly like this one no doubt will.

[Filthadelphia]

Simmons a bit too high

He should be Number 1. All these other players either havent played or have contributed to tankers.

Simmons is 23 and should be the 2nd best player on the prohibitive favorite to represent the East in the Finals.

[50CalClips]

D'Angelo Russell?

NO thanks.
Not even for free, would I want him on my team

D'Angelo Russell is the new Carmelo Anthony


#FoolsGold

[leolozon]

Well, with Fox at 6 and Bagley at 11 it’s more credible (what was that garbage Fox at 14, Bagley at 39 the other day).

I’d still quibble with the list. What has Booker shown in terms of winning? Simmons is a flawed player. Tatum ISO SF, better defending/efficient Rudy Gay

To be fair, the premise wasn't the same. It was best players in 5 years, so it included a lot of guys who are over 23 right now and even guys still not drafted (Wiseman #1 prospect next year). If you get rid of those, I think Bagley was 19th and Fox 8th. Still low for Bagley IMO, but Bagley is probably not going to be at his peak in 5 years, so the two lists ranked them closer than you think.

For example, this list thinks that Bagley is going to be a better player than Markkanen, M. Turner, D. Russell and J. Murray. The other list thinks that those 4 guys, at 27-28 years old, will be better than 25 years old Bagley. The two things can be true and actually make sense as most players peak around 28.

This list is way better though. I think some guys should go down/up a couple of spots, but I don't think there's anything dumb.

Bro we saw a different list. Somehow, Bagley was in the late 30s.. I mean, what the hell was that?

No we didn't see a different list. Like I said, the other list was best player in 5 years (in 2024-2025 and nothing else), not best player 23 and under. I think Bagley is probably going to be the 35-20th player in 5 years, but he wasn't listed 39th compared to 11th here, considering in the other list he was in competition with guys like Giannis, Jokic, Harden, Curry, etc. Plus guys who will be in their prime in 5 years, even though they will probably have a worst career than him.

You just can't directly compare the two rankings. Fox was basically considered about the same in both lists if you only look at players 23 and under (8th vs 6th).